How to de-restrict a UK Vado

[gpburdell]

I only test rode the Vado 4.0 (70nm) around a parking lot, so this isn't an exact comparison out in the real world... but my initial reaction to the Tero 5.0 (90nm) is it doesn't feel like it has any more power than the Vado 4.0. I'm sure I'm wrong about this, but I have to believe the 4.0 is plenty for my riding.

It seems there's more to the differences than just 70Nm vs 90Nm.

Digging into the details, the SBC support sites claims the following for both Tero and Vado (one says Vado, other says Tero):

• Vado 5.0 (IGH and standard): Specialized 2.2 motor provides 250 w nominal power and 4x rider power up to 560 w
• Vado 4.0: Specialized 2.0 motor provides 250 w nominal power and 3x rider power up to 470 w
• Vado 3.0 (IGH and standard): Specialized 2.0E motor provides 250 w nominal power and 3x rider power up to 430 w

Notice the max motor power difference is ~19% rather than the ~28.6% difference of 70Nm to 90Nm. There's also the part where the higher motor can provide 4x rider power vs 3x. Crunch numbers and the 5.0 models supposedly top out at 700W total with rider providing 140W and the 4.0 models top out at 627W total with rider providing 157W.

This makes me wonder if the real world difference would be noticeable outside of the steepest slopes. I recently put a power meter on my road bike and some of the steepest climbs in a hilly neighborhood I ride regularly have me putting out 500-550W. That seems easily achievable with either bike and a rider input of 140W or less.

Still though, comparing the 4.0 vs 5.0 Vado I consider the upgraded front suspension, hardwired Varia (I'd keep a rack on it of some sort, even if it were a Topeak MTX Explorer), and frankly just plain irrational FOMO - with a 5.0 I'd never wonder if I shoulda gone all the way. Not sure which way I'd go yet - even though rationally I know the 4.0 would likely do everything I'd be buying it to do.

I think the whole 20mph vs 28mph classification is a joke for pedal assist bikes. Bikes with a throttle is another story.

I agree completely. Particularly when enforcement would be extremely difficult. Unless you're causing a problem, it's improbable you'd ever get caught. Even if they've stationed someone at the trailhead, unless the ranger or LEO is checking against a spreadsheet of models and years, how would they know which was which? There's plenty of Class-1 ebike stickers available on ebay.

 

[giantkn10]

I had a short 2 month stint last fall with a Giant E+ 2 GTS 28mph. It was only 50nm but managed everything I needed. I had no problem getting up to 25mph in a few seconds. It was a little sluggish going up steep hills compared to the Bosch powered bikes I've had, but it still managed without much effort. The cheaper Suntour shocks didn't bother me like I thought they would. The biggest drawback with that bike was the 500wh battery wasn't enough for my commute.

So for me, I think the Vado 4.0 would work great. It has a little more power compared to the Giant, and a lot more battery. I don't know if the $1000 difference between 4.0 and 5.0 is worth it.

... I think I'm talking myself into selling the Tero and getting a Vado lol. I'll give this PearTune fiasco a few more days to see if there is a solution. For me, 28mph is a must have.

 

[gpburdell]

So for me, I think the Vado 4.0 would work great. It has a little more power compared to the Giant, and a lot more battery. I don't know if the $1000 difference between 4.0 and 5.0 is worth it.

... I think I'm talking myself into selling the Tero and getting a Vado lol. I'll give this PearTune fiasco a few more days to see if there is a solution. For me, 28mph is a must have.

Something else to consider...

You mentioned your typical commute speed is about 22.5mph. At 50 miles round trip commute, drivetrain wear may be a factor to consider as well.

Per SBC website, all three (Vado 4.0/5.0, Tero 5.0) use the SRAM PG-1130 11-42t cassette. That has 11,13,15,17,19,22,25,28,32,36, and 42 tooth cogs.

Plugging the numbers into BikeCalc.com shows that with the Tero and its 36T chainring, you'd get about that speed at 79rpm cadence in the 11-tooth small cog on the cassette.

With the Vado's 48t chainring, you'd get about that speed at 74rpm cadence in the 13-tooth second-to-smallest cog, or at 85rpm cadence you could be in the 15-tooth third cog. With four more teeth than the smallest cog, the wear is more distributed and the cog should last a bit longer.

What that means in terms of miles ridden before it becomes a factor isn't something I know, but perhaps @Stefan Mikes might have some insights. You might be able to increase chainring size on the Tero, not sure what to, but BikeCalc is handy for playing with the possibilities.

 

[giantkn10]

Big news! The PearTune 3.0 works! I had an epiphany while driving home from work today.

All of the connectors are made to only fit together one way... except for the very last connector! The round connector from the tuner to the bike motor can actually fit upside down. I installed this tuner 4 previous times and all 4 times I plugged it in upside down. I assumed it was correct and only fit one way like the other connectors. That was a wrong assumption. As soon as I figured out it would fit the other way I knew it would work.

They really need good instructions for this... or completely dummy proof the connectors so they all fit one way only.

So if you install this tuner and get a speed sensor error message, plug in the round connector with the black wire on top, NOT the red wire.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Hooray!

 

[giantkn10]

Hooray!

Hooray is right! I literally lost sleep over this last night. I knew it had something to do with the speed sensor. I was thinking maybe PearTune had wires backwards.

Then in one last desperate attempt, I flipped that connector around and it fit.

The problem is always in the last place you check.

 

[Nubnub]

Glad to see you got it working. They really need to add a high quality closeup like yours but showing the correct orientation. I remember when I watched the install video for the first time it looked like they were doing a number of twists and turning of the assembly - but it wasn't clear why. And can barely tell that the black wire is on the top. If you did it 4 times the wrong way - the normal as received orientation must favor the backwards install. Good catch to figure it out. Let us know how you like it.

I'm right with you on the Class 1 limitation on the Tero being contrary to their marketing as a do all type bike. With the Tero's power, it is way to ez to get to the 20 mph limit. If there are no significant hills on your commute, I do agree with your thought that the Vado 4.0 would probably have been a good choice too - albeit at the cost of some non-commute off road capability. Enjoy your improved ride.

 

[gpburdell]

Awesome news. Enjoy!

 

[giantkn10]

Glad to see you got it working. They really need to add a high quality closeup like yours but showing the correct orientation. I remember when I watched the install video for the first time it looked like they were doing a number of twists and turning of the assembly - but it wasn't clear why. And can barely tell that the black wire is on the top. If you did it 4 times the wrong way - the normal as received orientation must favor the backwards install. Good catch to figure it out. Let us know how you like it.

I'm right with you on the Class 1 limitation on the Tero being contrary to their marketing as a do all type bike. With the Tero's power, it is way to ez to get to the 20 mph limit. If there are no significant hills on your commute, I do agree with your thought that the Vado 4.0 would probably have been a good choice too - albeit at the cost of some non-commute off road capability. Enjoy your improved ride.

Yes you're right about the normal received orientation favoring the backwards install. It was naturally twisted into that orientation and it fit, so I thought it was correct.

I noticed all the twisting in the video as well.

Also I have the "always on" version and I was thinking maybe there was something different I needed to do to activate it that wasn't shown in the video.

Now in hindsight it seems like something simple I should have figured out right away. It was either an ah hah moment or an oh duh moment... either way it worked out.

This really is a 10 minute job now that I know how to do it correctly. Getting into the Brose motor is way easier than Bosch.

I'll see if I can get out this weekend for a long ride and test it.

 

[Rider777]

Yes your right about the normal received orientation favoring the backwards install. It was naturally twisted into that orientation and it fit, so I thought it was correct.

I noticed all the twisting in the video as well.

Also I have the "always on" version and I was thinking maybe there was something different I needed to do to activate it that wasn't shown in the video.

Now in hindsight it seems like something simple I should have figured out right away. It was either an ah hah moment or an oh duh moment... either way it worked out.

This really is a 10 minute job now that I know how to do it correctly. Getting into the Brose motor is way easier than Bosch.

I'll see if I can get out this weekend for a long ride and test it.

Re your epiphany :
It’s really amazing how our brains/subconscious work !!!!!
I had a similar experience:
On my bike with the Bosch Gen4 motor I installed the proper SpeedBox according to the seller but I couldn’t get it to activate.
It really bugged me and no solution from SpeedBox (they are a GREAT seller BTW) So I “slept” on it literally.
The next morning I woke up and wondered if I switched off the lights (R&M Delite) would it engage?
Voila !!!! It worked.
I let SpeedBox know because they didn’t know what the problem initially was .
And it’s worked flawlessly for over 8,000 miles (not km’s )
Enjoy your newfound assisted speed !
You’ll love it !

 

[giantkn10]

Re your epiphany :
It’s really amazing how our brains/subconscious work !!!!!
I had a similar experience:
On my bike with the Bosch Gen4 motor I installed the proper SpeedBox according to the seller but I couldn’t get it to activate.
It really bugged me and no solution from SpeedBox (they are a GREAT seller BTW) So I “slept” on it literally.
The next morning I woke up and wondered if I switched off the lights (R&M Delite) would it engage?
Voila !!!! It worked.
I let SpeedBox know because they didn’t know what the problem initially was .
And it’s worked flawlessly for over 8,000 miles (not km’s )
Enjoy your newfound assisted speed !
You’ll love it !

I also had a Speedbox on my gen 3 Bosch Cube for almost 2 years. I put a few thousand on it with absolutely no issues. I'm hoping for the same from this PearTune.

I didn't have lights on the Cube, but to turn on the Speedbox I had to push + - + -. It was a small hassle doing that every time. That's why I chose the "always on" version of PearTune for this bike. I just want to hop on and go.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Also I have the "always on" version

I chose the version activated by pushing the "Walk mode" button (yours F2) for my Vado SL. I did it intentionally; for instance for (potentially) being questioned by the police.

The button activated version can lead to some funny situations. For instance, I overtook a rather slow roadie in the SL Turbo mode once, and was pedalling hard for 4 kilometres to increase the lead. Then I stopped at a bus stop for a short rest, and to see how many seconds it would have taken the roadie to reach the same point (it took him a long time!) There was an MTBer at the bus stop; the guy was making some fix to his bike. We both had a chat, and decided to ride together for a while.

The guy started riding first. He got at 28 km/h, and I found out I could not catch up with him! I switched to Turbo and it didn't help! (Did my Vado SL break?!) Then I just pushed the Walk Mode button...

Did you inform Katerina Pear of your findings? She's such a nice person down there in the Czech Republic!

 

[giantkn10]

I chose the version activated by pushing the "Walk mode" button (yours F2) for my Vado SL. I did it intentionally; for instance for (potentially) being questioned by the police.

The button activated version can lead to some funny situations. For instance, I overtook a rather slow roadie in the SL Turbo mode once, and was pedalling hard for 4 kilometres to increase the lead. Then I stopped at a bus stop for a short rest, and to see how many seconds it would have taken the roadie to reach the same point (it took him a long time!) There was an MTBer at the bus stop; the guy was making some fix to his bike. We both had a chat, and decided to ride together for a while.

The guy started riding first. He got at 28 km/h, and I found out I could not catch up with him! I switched to Turbo and it didn't help! (Did my Vado SL break?!) Then I just pushed the Walk Mode button...

Did you inform Katerina Pear of your findings? She's such a nice person down there in the Czech Republic!

Yes I did send her a follow up email.

 

[giantkn10]

Per BikeCalc.com it would seem the Tero with its 36T/11-42 gearing and 29x2.35 tires would get you ~25.6mph at 90rpm cadence in top gear, as compared to the Vado's 32.2mph at 90rpm with its 44T/11-42 and 650B x 2.3 tires. (edit: cassette is apparently 11-42, not 11-50. this isn't material for top speed but changed for accuracy)

Something else to consider...

You mentioned your typical commute speed is about 22.5mph. At 50 miles round trip commute, drivetrain wear may be a factor to consider as well.

Per SBC website, all three (Vado 4.0/5.0, Tero 5.0) use the SRAM PG-1130 11-42t cassette. That has 11,13,15,17,19,22,25,28,32,36, and 42 tooth cogs.

Plugging the numbers into BikeCalc.com shows that with the Tero and its 36T chainring, you'd get about that speed at 79rpm cadence in the 11-tooth small cog on the cassette.

With the Vado's 48t chainring, you'd get about that speed at 74rpm cadence in the 13-tooth second-to-smallest cog, or at 85rpm cadence you could be in the 15-tooth third cog. With four more teeth than the smallest cog, the wear is more distributed and the cog should last a bit longer.

What that means in terms of miles ridden before it becomes a factor isn't something I know, but perhaps @Stefan Mikes might have some insights. You might be able to increase chainring size on the Tero, not sure what to, but BikeCalc is handy for playing with the possibilities.

I put on my Jones loop bar setup and Redshift suspension seatpost, and went for a 12 mile test ride today (windy, cold, and a little snow). Mixed terrain. I have a steep incline gravel trail that helps me compare bikes. This Tero 5.0 is definitely more powerful than the Giant I mentioned previously. This is a great bike!

You were spot on with the 25mph calculation. It was hard to get over (or maintain) that speed because of the small chain ring. I'm going to look into getting a larger change ring. On trails I didn't really need the lowest 2 gears. I would rather have more top-end like the Vado.

 

[gpburdell]

Looks great, @giantkn10

Random suggestion, if you consider a rear rack the Topeak Explorer Disc MTX effectively acts like an ass-saver due to the MTX plate catching stuff. Have it on my hybrid. Also happen to like the MTX trunk bags, I have the one with the fold out panniers.

 

[giantkn10]

Looks great, @giantkn10

Random suggestion, if you consider a rear rack the Topeak Explorer Disc MTX effectively acts like an ass-saver due to the MTX plate catching stuff. Have it on my hybrid. Also happen to like the MTX trunk bags, I have the one with the fold out panniers.

I actually have the Axiom Streamliner. I love this rack because it fits every bike, it's super adjustable, and sits back a little bit so your feet never hit your panier bags. I just didn't have time to install it today. I also have new Ortelieb gavel bags to try out on it (gray, not black).

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I put on my Jones loop bar setup

How do Innerbardends work for you with the Jones H-Bar?

 

[giantkn10]

How do Innerbardends work for you with the Jones H-Bar?

They work just as well, if not better, than a straight bar. I wasn't sure until I tried it. I probably spend 75% of my time on those inner bar ends. I highly recommend them. I believe they are made by SQ Labs.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I highly recommend them. I believe they are made by SQ Labs.

I use them on two e-bikes. My question was how well they matched the Jones bars.

 

[giantkn10]

I use them on two e-bikes. My question was how well they matched the Jones bars.

They feel very natural. That sweep back also helps with the inner bar end comfort.