How hard do you negotiate for that eBike?

[JoePah]

Location and timing seem to be the greatest influences in determining if you will get a discount on a new eBike.

Personally, I first found the eBike(s) that I wanted, then shopped local places for the best deal:

Ebike #1 (A2B metro): 25% discount. Dealer needed to move inventory, and had 5 expensive eBikes taking up space on his showroom floor.

Ebike #2 (Stromer Elite): 60% discount. Dealer bought out a bankrupt bike dealer and was clearing out the old inventory of 7 Stromers and many fake Italian cf road bikes. I threw out a ridiculous number and was first in the door, so they took it.

Both bikes were (at the time) high quality, expensive eBikes. Full warranty on both.

I wouldn't buy an eBike on line, due to the nature of the inevitable Warranty work.. Maybe today they are reliable enough so that an online purchase wouldn't be a gamble.

The best time imo to buy an eBike is the same as for any other bike: During model year closeouts, fall/winter.

 

[pxpaulx]

If I were to buy a retail bike again, I would start negotiating at about sixty percent of msrp, and expect to meet at 25 to 30 percent discount in the end. It is clear pricing is marked up quite a large amount, and there are enough places out there that discounts are available if you know where to look!

 

[George S.]

If I buy a kit, I'm responsible for the battery, which is a big issue. A lot of the cost, a lot of the warranty claims. I guess I will handle that myself. The other part is the motor. I think about just ordering a spare wheel with the motor, keeping it in a box somewhere. I would consider a spare BBS-02, if I used that system.

Dealers can make money with rentals and service. If people want auto-shift or anything cutting edge, they will be working with some kind of retailer. A lot of the market is luxury stuff. The low margin end of things doesn't have much room for deep discounts.

 

[Pastabatman]

If I were to buy a retail bike again, I would start negotiating at about sixty percent of msrp, and expect to meet at 25 to 30 percent discount in the end.

Are local retail buyers really getting 25-30% discounts on late models (excluding close outs and fire sales)? My small sample of one indicates that a rock-bottom Internet purchase (including shipping, having to assemble, and no clear place to go to for warranty service) would only achieve a 20% discount off MSRP. In light of that, a 10-15% discount for local retail seems like a more reasonable expectation.

 

[Deleted member 803]

I just love the surveys on this forum. Sample sizes are so small as to render any results totally useless for statistical purposes. I am in favor of always negotiating just as long as you never ask what the dealer paid for the product. Dealer pricing from vendors is simply none of the consumers business. It is extremely unethical for the consumer to determine what margin the dealer deserves.

I want a good deal (sometimes) and am willing to shop. Most of the time I shop to determine ASP (average selling price) which is a better indicator of pricing fairness. In any market, as distribution grows, the ability to sell for msrp lessens. There are legal restrictions some states honor for "advertised" pricing. However, federal fair trade laws, prohibit manufacturers from controlling the actual selling price.

Most things can be negotiated. This includes things you may not think of including tax bills, doctor and hospital charges, and mortgages. I am not sure the word negotiate is correct. Most times a consumer can obtain better pricing simply by asking.

 

[stevenast]

never ask what the dealer paid for the product. Dealer pricing from vendors is simply none of the consumers business

Everything is a consumer's business, if you want his/her money. But if the retailer wants to keep secrets, there's other places to buy...

 

[Cameron Newland]

I just love the surveys on this forum. Sample sizes are so small as to render any results totally useless for statistical purposes. I am in favor of always negotiating just as long as you never ask what the dealer paid for the product. Dealer pricing from vendors is simply none of the consumers business. It is extremely unethical for the consumer to determine what margin the dealer deserves.

I want a good deal (sometimes) and am willing to shop. Most of the time I shop to determine ASP (average selling price) which is a better indicator of pricing fairness. In any market, as distribution grows, the ability to sell for msrp lessens. There are legal restrictions some states honor for "advertised" pricing. However, federal fair trade laws, prohibit manufacturers from controlling the actual selling price.

Most things can be negotiated. This includes things you may not think of including tax bills, doctor and hospital charges, and mortgages. I am not sure the word negotiate is correct. Most times a consumer can obtain better pricing simply by asking.

Why is it "unethical" for the consumer know the wholesale price of a product? That seems like an arbitrary and unsubstantiated claim to me.

It certainly is the business of a bike dealer to know what their margin/markup is, and they have no need to inform anyone about wholesale pricing and can politely decline, but I don't see why it would be unethical to inquire. If the consumer wants a deal that's too good to be true, the dealer has the right to decline their offer, and that's that. The consumer will only walk away with a bike if they come to a deal that they both can live with.

 

[Deleted member 803]

Why is it "unethical" for the consumer know the wholesale price of a product? That seems like an arbitrary and unsubstantiated claim to me.

It certainly is the business of a bike dealer to know what their margin/markup is, and they have no need to inform anyone about wholesale pricing and can politely decline, but I don't see why it would be unethical to inquire. If the consumer wants a deal that's too good to be true, the dealer has the right to decline their offer, and that's that. The consumer will only walk away with a bike if they come to a deal that they both can live with.

What a dealer pays for a product is unimportant. What a consumer pays for a product is important. COGS is part of what we might call proprietary business practices. If you consider asking someone to disclose their retail trade secrets an ethical inquiry then you exhibit utter lack of respect for best business practices.

Let me give you a simple example. Suppose you purchased a product for $100 that was the best possible competitive price you could find, used the product, and was absolutely thrilled with its performance. After the purchase you learn that the product cost $2.67 to make. Would you still consider your purchase a good deal? Would you complain about how much the seller made in profits? Would you return the product or ask for a lower price?

The only thing that should matter to you is perceived value of the purchase.

 

[Tara D.]

I'm with you on this one @86 and still kicking

 

[pxpaulx]

What a dealer pays for a product is unimportant. What a consumer pays for a product is important. COGS is part of what we might call proprietary business practices. If you consider asking someone to disclose their retail trade secrets an ethical inquiry then you exhibit utter lack of respect for best business practices.

Let me give you a simple example. Suppose you purchased a product for $100 that was the best possible competitive price you could find, used the product, and was absolutely thrilled with its performance. After the purchase you learn that the product cost $2.67 to make. Would you still consider your purchase a good deal? Would you complain about how much the seller made in profits? Would you return the product or ask for a lower price?

The only thing that should matter to you is perceived value of the purchase.

We're not talking $100 goods here either though. I'd liken it closest to the automobile industry. Regardless I agree I wouldn't expect a dealer to provide me with details of their invoicing and bottom line, however much of that is semi-available for those willing to look. In the end it is about the consumer's willingness to pay. Some may just walk in and pay what the sticker says - that is largely how we are taught that things work. When it comes to big ticket items, that is rarely the case - a deal is always there to be struck for those who are willing to ask (or walk away).

I do think it hurts this relatively small segment that you never see advertised sales, and I think that is what most are trying to get at. If one person can negotiate or find a deal lets say for $1,800 on a $2,500 bike, or $2,500 for a $3,500 bike, then kudos to them. What about people who walk into a shop, see the high prices and decide, because of those prices, the bikes aren't worth the cost? If there is never a sale or discount, those are sales lost. I suppose from the industry perspective it is difficult to attempt to move volume at lower prices when the market really is such a small segment, especially here in the US right now.

 

[Deleted member 803]

We're not talking $100 goods here either though. I'd liken it closest to the automobile industry. Regardless I agree I wouldn't expect a dealer to provide me with details of their invoicing and bottom line, however much of that is semi-available for those willing to look. In the end it is about the consumer's willingness to pay. Some may just walk in and pay what the sticker says - that is largely how we are taught that things work. When it comes to big ticket items, that is rarely the case - a deal is always there to be struck for those who are willing to ask (or walk away).

I do think it hurts this relatively small segment that you never see advertised sales, and I think that is what most are trying to get at. If one person can negotiate or find a deal lets say for $1,800 on a $2,500 bike, or $2,500 for a $3,500 bike, then kudos to them. What about people who walk into a shop, see the high prices and decide, because of those prices, the bikes aren't worth the cost? If there is never a sale or discount, those are sales lost. I suppose from the industry perspective it is difficult to attempt to move volume at lower prices when the market really is such a small segment, especially here in the US right now.

Let me put it another way. If there is no strongly perceived value/need, then a lower price is simply not a motivator. A personal example: I come from the high tech industry and am technically astute. Right or wrong I do not like IOS as a mobile operating system. If you lowered the price of an iphone 6+ to $10 I would not buy it as its core functionality does not suite my particular needs.

If the ebike solves a perceived problem then price becomes a secondary consideration. I believe that things like price, wow, fast, cool, pretty, fun et. al. are not strong purchase motivators. When I called 100 health and wellness managers in the Sf Bay area I pitched one message and only one message: Leave the car at home. It resonated 'VERY strongly, strongly enough that 100% of them were amenable to allowing me to demo and sell ebikes on their corporate campus. I was at a farmers market helping a local dealer sell ebikes. We had 30 or 40 folks who were really interested. All of the interested parties were not cyclists in the traditional sense but had (for the most part) medical issues that affected their mobility. My point is that when a product is properly positioned to solve a real or perceived problem price becomes a tiny issue.

 

[PowerMe]

Price is a tiny issue or a non-issue if you have the necessary funds (or ability to get those funds through financing) to acquire an eBike. If you don't have the $$$ then price is not only a huge issue, it's your main barrier to entry and will continue to be a barrier until you acquire the necessary funds. All the perceived need in the world won't provide you with the $$$, though the strength of that need or want will provide motivation to prioritize saving or financing to get the monies.

 

[stevenast]

What a dealer pays for a product is unimportant. What a consumer pays for a product is important. COGS is part of what we might call proprietary business practices. If you consider asking someone to disclose their retail trade secrets an ethical inquiry then you exhibit utter lack of respect for best business practices.

Let me give you a simple example. Suppose you purchased a product for $100 that was the best possible competitive price you could find, used the product, and was absolutely thrilled with its performance. After the purchase you learn that the product cost $2.67 to make. Would you still consider your purchase a good deal? Would you complain about how much the seller made in profits? Would you return the product or ask for a lower price?

The only thing that should matter to you is perceived value of the purchase.

All this philosophizing. That's nice, but I care about every dollar I spend, as I have to earn it first.

Darn right I'm angry to be charged $100.00 for a $2.67 item. That's why I dislike my broadband cable company so much!

Luckily people don't have to pay retail prices for e-bikes...

 

[Mike Smith]

Actually got 20% off for my Diamondback Trace EXC off at Performance Bike plus another 30% in store credits....great deal. Have to wait and look for the best deals...they are not just going to offer them to you, especially smaller bike shops.

 

[Deleted member 803]

The question doesn't really apply where I live. Everybody wants an e-bike. But they're sold everywhere too. So how far is your local dealer willing to go to get your business? In a 50 mile radius there are no less than 40 places where I can buy an e-bike. And sooner or later these shops will want to get rid of their inventory. So if it's in stock, just propose a price. I know about a dozen people who own e-bikes. None have paid close to the suggested retail price.

JayVee: You are in a much more mature and normalized market in Switzerland. It will happen in North America but we are probably 10-20 years behind Europe in terms of market maturity. I am still amazed that people think they are entitled to know what a dealer pays for a product and, even more galling, how much profit margin they believe is appropriate for the dealer. Thankfully most consumers don't care about such nonsense and only care that their purchase price was competitive and that they are pleased with delivered benefits.

 

[Cameron Newland]

I am still amazed that people think they are entitled to know what a dealer pays for a product and, even more galling, how much profit margin they believe is appropriate for the dealer. Thankfully most consumers don't care about such nonsense and only care that their purchase price was competitive and that they are pleased with delivered benefits.

It seems like you've spent too much time studying business management and too little time studying human psychology! ;-)

You know, the auto market has proven that consumers want to know the invoice price of a car. Car dealers have adapted to this reality and will knowingly tell the consumer what they paid for the car in order to gain the consumer's trust and hence their business. Car dealers now get volume bonuses from manufacturers which ultimately reduce their cost to below invoice price and consequently help them book healthier profits while still adhering to the demands of consumers. What's wrong with a system like this for ebikes? I actually believe it's already going on, though the evidence I have is more circumstantial and I don't have enough data points to prove it.

Anyways, the determination you're making regarding the morality of a consumer wanting to know the invoice/wholesale price of an item is entirely subjective. You're entitled to your opinion, and I mine. We can agree to disagree. And I don't think anyone said that consumers should feel entitled to know the wholesale price of a product, but rather that they are simply curious and want to know, because knowing how much a product costs wholesale can inform consumer's determination of how to value a product (it's just another data point that they can use in addition to your preferred 'perceived value' method). Consumers weigh many things in their heads when it comes to coming up with a price that they're comfortable paying. That's simply how consumers behave, and it's okay. There's no need to bash them for it or call them immoral.

 

[opimax]

I do not believe I know the true cost what dealer pays for his car. and even less what his total costs are. I search and do all I can but they are a professional and i am not. I know there is always someone smarter , faster o, bigger , paid less, paid more or whatever "more" more than i no matter what. I can search the best price paid by the consumer better than I can say what the dealer paid for the car....and i dont believe everything that i read about what they said they paid , some feel they got ripped and post less or feel they must pay the least and just lie so they can feel better, fudge factor

It is not my right but i want all info i can gather so i can get the best deal. You make offer , if they like it you have deal they dont go tot he next place and raise it $10 see if that makes and so on

 

[eDean]

I advise negotiating strongly or buying from a discounter unless your well off. Ebike depreciate by at least 30 percent immediately out the door . Batteries are extremely expensive ware out and have limited second hand value. If I earn 50,000 a year and you earn 1,000,000 don't waste your time negotiating. However I should given the much higher value a dollar will have in my world and the extremely high opportunity cost that I would be subjected to. Personally, I don't care about the actual price to the dealer, just getting the best deal myself. If I knew the margin on every item I bought would I still shop.... If you knew how much waste there is in government would you still pay taxes... Anyway, there are huge differences in prices from dealer to dealer No way I would own two Ebikes if I had purchased at retail. Having bought four Ebikes already I strongly advise doing some research. You can save hundreds to thousands on one purchase. Use the money to get a second battery.

 

[Deleted member 803]

It seems like you've spent too much time studying business management and too little time studying human psychology! ;-)

You know, the auto market has proven that consumers want to know the invoice price of a car. Car dealers have adapted to this reality and will knowingly tell the consumer what they paid for the car in order to gain the consumer's trust and hence their business. Car dealers now get volume bonuses from manufacturers which ultimately reduce their cost to below invoice price and consequently help them book healthier profits while still adhering to the demands of consumers. What's wrong with a system like this for ebikes? I actually believe it's already going on, though the evidence I have is more circumstantial and I don't have enough data points to prove it.

Anyways, the determination you're making regarding the morality of a consumer wanting to know the invoice/wholesale price of an item is entirely subjective. You're entitled to your opinion, and I mine. We can agree to disagree. And I don't think anyone said that consumers should feel entitled to know the wholesale price of a product, but rather that they are simply curious and want to know, because knowing how much a product costs wholesale can inform consumer's determination of how to value a product (it's just another data point that they can use in addition to your preferred 'perceived value' method). Consumers weigh many things in their heads when it comes to coming up with a price that they're comfortable paying. That's simply how consumers behave, and it's okay. There's no need to bash them for it or call them immoral.

My references were to ethics: which have nothing to do with morality. My opinion is based on decades of consumer research (mostly conducted by my marketing teams) regarding purchase motivators but has also been substantiated over and over again in market research across various markets.

You cannot be so naive as to think the auto industry discloses purchase costs to the consumer. What you make reference to is a brilliant marketing scheme, nothing more.

 

[Deleted member 803]

The second you mention a price different than the one being listed, you are negotiating. As far as market maturity, the sign of a healthy economy is the commerce of goods.. There are none better than the United States.

Negotiation implies that both sides need to compromise to reach a successful agreement and typically involves considerable discussion and the willingness to give up something.