I've been riding in Moab since the 80's, in those days, the only places to ride were all roads and trails open to motorcycles and jeeps, and even then on those fully rigid and basically crappy bikes compared to what are available now, we were faster than jeeps almost everywhere. These days, it's rare to see jeeps or motorcycles on the trails, it's mostly side by sides and even those are slower than bicycles except on smooth dirt roads. There's plenty of fantastic riding there for ebikes, and you won't get run over, you should go try it out.
How bike or ebike friendly are the Utah National Parks
- Thread starter mrgold35
- Start date
-
- Tags
- national parks utah
I've been riding in Moab since the 80's, in those days, the only places to ride were all roads and trails open to motorcycles and jeeps, and even then on those fully rigid and basically crappy bikes compared to what are available now, we were faster than jeeps almost everywhere. These days, it's rare to see jeeps or motorcycles on the trails, it's mostly side by sides and even those are slower than bicycles except on smooth dirt roads. There's plenty of fantastic riding there for ebikes, and you won't get run over, you should go try it out.
mrgold35
Well-Known Member
The wife and I decided to cancel our trip to the other parks in Utah we had planned for end of summer. We still have a few driving trips planned out to California in the spring of 2018 (LA and Fresno). We might take a detour and check out the parks in the southwest part of Utah then. No ebikes on those trips, just a recon mission. I will also recon Yosemite national park when we travel to Fresno.
Fred Speece
New Member
Hi people. It looks as if most of the posts are coming from out west. Today I received a $100 ($30 handling charge), to appear in Federal District Court in Bangor, Me. for riding an e-bike on Acadia National Parks's carraiage roads. They have signs saying no e-bikes on carriage roads but I really don't believe that it is just. Court date is middle of January and I am wondering if I should make a, "federal case", out of this . Comments ???
mrgold35
Well-Known Member
Not much you can do about the ticket if there was signs clearly marking the restriction. The only way around it is the bike was disabled from running in ebike mode. Something like the battery was removed and you had proof during the time of the ticket like a picture of the officer standing next to the bike with battery removed. Can't be an ebike with "e" missing.
Fred Speece
New Member
I'm 63 and semi retired. I saw the Ranger from 100 yards away and could have avoided him by turning off on to another road but chose not to. I have been going around and about with this with my friends. Their opinion is divided. I decided that if the Ranger wanted to push it ," I'll be your huckleberry" . I turned the power off and went towards him. He stopped me and gave the ticket, never once ascertaining if it was anything other than an e-bike in name only. I could get into quoting J.D. Rockefeller, Jr. on the whole purpose of building the carriage roads ; but summing it up , it was to give public access to the interior of the park to those who could not see it by walking. Last afternoon after the ticket at happy hour a lawyer friend of mine said just pay the ticket. I replied with , "What would Thoreau say about this matter as an act of civil disobedience ?". She said Thoreau wouldn't have ridden an e-bike ... I am complicating requesting a jury trail in Federal District Court . My wife's opinion is that you can't request a jury trail in Fed District Court. I believe in my rights as a citizen so let's bump it up to Circuit Court. The whole idea here is in tune with JDR, Jr.'s original vision and if others would push the issue the Park Superintendent would have to reconsider as did the opponents to the CEO of Standard Oil.
mrgold35
Well-Known Member
My wife is a supervisor for Federal Probation and Pre-trial services. She mostly deals with felonies charges along with felonies/misdemeanors on Federal lands. She was thinking this would fall under the Magistrate Federal courts as a petty offense (like getting a speeding or parking ticket on Federal land). She doesn't deal at all with petty offenses; but, they do have hearings several times a month in the Federal Court house for those offenses.
She is thinking it will just be a Federal Judge for a bench hearing and they will decide enforce, reduce, or toss out the ebike ticket. You might not get a jury; but, maybe a second hearing with the Park Ranger there to testify. If the Ranger doesn't show up, the Judge might toss out the ticket. It might sway the judge in your favor if the ebike restrictions were not clearly marked, the restrictions only applied for certain areas (pedestrian paths or viewing areas) compared to no ebikes in the entire park, or the ebike restrictions didn't apply because you were on public roads for motor vehicles following all rules and routes of other motor vehicles.
It would seem a Federal Park in all 50 states ran by the same agencies would have a consistent rules for bike and ebike usage on public land?
She is thinking it will just be a Federal Judge for a bench hearing and they will decide enforce, reduce, or toss out the ebike ticket. You might not get a jury; but, maybe a second hearing with the Park Ranger there to testify. If the Ranger doesn't show up, the Judge might toss out the ticket. It might sway the judge in your favor if the ebike restrictions were not clearly marked, the restrictions only applied for certain areas (pedestrian paths or viewing areas) compared to no ebikes in the entire park, or the ebike restrictions didn't apply because you were on public roads for motor vehicles following all rules and routes of other motor vehicles.
It would seem a Federal Park in all 50 states ran by the same agencies would have a consistent rules for bike and ebike usage on public land?
Last edited:
Fred Speece
New Member
harry S >>> I am not a lawyer. I was planning to defend myself and save money. I know there are procedural items that l am unaware of that could turn around and bite me. I am open to any ideas on how to proceed forward. A quote from my misspent youth comes to mind, " he that has himself for a client has hired a fool".
mrgold35 >>> The e-bike restrictions are clearly marked on most entry portals to the Carriage Roads of Acadia National Park , although there may not be a total compliance as I have not visited all portals. ANP is monitoring these posts, as I found out yesterday (through an undisclosed source, ghee sounds like the present administration's staff) so if the signs aren't all up they shall soon be.
The closest similar usage I have come up with is the C & O Canal National Historical Park. The towpath runs for some 184 miles and is closed to all unauthorized motorized vehicles and hoof drawn vehicles . Federal statchute classifies a Class 1 e-bike as a non-motorized vehicle (I believe). The Carriage Roads are closed to motorized vehicles but open to hoofed drawn vehicles. Apparently a Park Superintendent can operate the Park under his jurisdiction as a Feudal Fiefdom. All one has to do is prepare a written determination justifying the action. I will go over that action after work today >>>36 CFR 1.5-C
Fred Speece
New Member
MikeDD >>> This argument is at the heart of the matter. My wife has a similar restriction where riding a bike would not be entirely possible ; although a e-bike/trike is another matter entirely. I paraphrased J.D. Rockefeller, Jr. before as the purpose of the Carriage Roads is to open up the interior of Acadia National Park to the public who would not be exposed to it by any other means. This Park Super of ANP seems like Mean Mr. Mustard ; a real true to life Nowhere Man ...
vincent
Well-Known Member
I think it is good you are drawing attention to this matter
Think i am going to sit down and write several of these places listed that do not allow ebikes but allow regular bicycles and let them know my money will be spent in other states/parks etc
That this restriction completely removes them from any consideration i have for vacationing there
Think i am going to sit down and write several of these places listed that do not allow ebikes but allow regular bicycles and let them know my money will be spent in other states/parks etc
That this restriction completely removes them from any consideration i have for vacationing there
mrgold35
Well-Known Member
Most of time; the signs had regular bike restrictions posted and I just assumed the restrictions applied for ebikes also. Most of the federal parks I visit in the southwest have posted sign on the motor vehicle roads to make room for bicycles when passing (again, assuming Class I and II ebikes also on share the road areas). The only time I seen posted "no ebikes" and regular bike welcomed on walking/hiking/mtb trails was in the parks within the city limits of Sedona, AZ. You can only ride ebikes the same areas A-OK for motor vehicles only.
From what I can figure the city, local, state, or Federal agencies can't agree on where the line begins and ends on the difference between a motorized vehicle and ebike? I can see it taking a few more years for the laws to catch-up to the technology.
Unlike a for profit business, federal, state and local parks don't care if you don't visit.
I called yosemite to see if class 1 ebikes were allowed on the bike baths. Interestingly the ranger said good question but didnt know. After asking around she confirmed they are considered motorized vehicles so no go on the paths.
That being said, it didnt sound like this came up often so may be a case of dont stick out, ie dont go flying down the paths, and they prob wont notice.
That being said, it didnt sound like this came up often so may be a case of dont stick out, ie dont go flying down the paths, and they prob wont notice.
Fred Speece
New Member
Hey Jk I hear what you are saying about flying under the radar and in my case in Acadia N.P. I was in stealth mode, doing a real Harry Potter where he wore the cloak of darkness. I was stopped because of the brand name, "Pedago" written on the frame. I set up the whole encounter with my Park Ranger ; as l saw him a 100 yards off and chose to press the matter. The battery (over the rear tire) was covered up by a folded wind shirt. Also in this thread I stated I had the electric assist turned off , so I was in total pedal mode. I am now getting assistance in this matter and don't want to reveal to much until I get the go ahead. I learned a long time ago one should never under estimate one's opponent. Park Super Kevin, through his agent the ranger who stated , "his hands were tied and had to issue the ticket", picked the wrong huckleberry ...
elyhim
Active Member
The rules are clear for ALL US Forests - E bikes are considered motorized. Their website clearly states it. Although, there are several studies underway the biggest issue is perception and the local bicycle organizations are pushing for the no e-bikes rule from land managers. Support "People for Bikes" and check their website, there is tons of information and some ways to get involved. I donated a few hundred to my local organization until I found out they didn't support me and my ebike.
vincent
Well-Known Member
I think they probably care somewhat, if enough people complain and indicate they want to come there but won’t if ebikes are not allowed someone will start to listen
and I definitely think the states and cities care if we come there to spend money/tax dollars in their hotels, restaurants etc
and I definitely think the states and cities care if we come there to spend money/tax dollars in their hotels, restaurants etc
Fred Speece
New Member
Here in lies the rub Ely with one branch of the US government declaring ebikes under 750 watts not a motorized vehicle >>> as in not having to register them with the MVA/DMV. I believe that is from Bush the second , I don't have the info in front of me but it is there. I relate this to horseless carriages being banned on Mt. Desert Island , Me. (where Acadiaa N.P. is located) until 1915. J.D. Rockefeller, Jr. hated cars but he saw the tide coming in and knew nothing can stop the tide from coming in. He explained to the locals it wasn't that he wanted the polluting vehicles but it is the wave of the future . Instead of fighting the tide , embrace it. Start to get out of the horse centric business and introduce oil changes, inner tubes and tires to your existing business and see what sells more. Botton line it is technology moving forward and older people can get out and enjoy having 16 year old legs again ...
Alphbetadog
Active Member
This is very correct. Most of the Rangers would prefer people didn't come. Less work and they get paid the same regardless.
Similar threads
