Hi folks. Is this where I can get advice about my Haibike?

[Bluenotgreen]

I own a hard tail, electric Haibike mountain bike. This has done less than 500 miles and appears to have developed a fault. It has been returned to the dealer for servicing and also to have this fault checked out. It is difficult to actually describe the fault but here goes.
This typically occurs with the power assist in mid-position, in high gear and on a flat, or slightly downhill stretch of road and at a speed of approximately 15 mph with me applying steady pressure to the cranks to maintain this speed. As the cranks are rotated, I occasionally get a slight 'give' in the crank as though a cog was jumping a tooth. This happens intermittently but always in the conditions described. It does not occur when peddling uphill or on rough ground when lower gears are used. The dealer has checked the chains drive, the motor and used his computer to try to find the cause. He has also test ridden the bike and can not find a fault. His conclusion is that 'give' that only I experience is the result of the slight delay as the motor takes up the drive. I did not experience this at any time over the first few hundred miles of riding the machine. The fault just appeared.
Does anyone have ideas about this? Could it be me not riding correctly?
Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[tallpaul]

Hi, I am relatively new to eBikes, having purchased my Haibike about a month ago and thoroughly enjoying it.
I did a lot of research online before the purchase and came to the conclusion that there were very, very few issues with at least the Bosch system. Is this what you have?
I have noticed that at times there is a slight "delay" as well, but overall feel the motor is doing it's job very well and responsively.
I realize this reply is not much help, hope you get it sorted out. I will keep an eye on your post here.

 

[Bluenotgreen]

Hi, I am relatively new to eBikes, having purchased my Haibike about a month ago and thoroughly enjoying it.
I did a lot of research online before the purchase and came to the conclusion that there were very, very few issues with at least the Bosch system. Is this what you have?
I have noticed that at times there is a slight "delay" as well, but overall feel the motor is doing it's job very well and responsively.
I realize this reply is not much help, hope you get it sorted out. I will keep an eye on your post here.

Hi, I am relatively new to eBikes, having purchased my Haibike about a month ago and thoroughly enjoying it.
I did a lot of research online before the purchase and came to the conclusion that there were very, very few issues with at least the Bosch system. Is this what you have?
I have noticed that at times there is a slight "delay" as well, but overall feel the motor is doing it's job very well and responsively.
I realize this reply is not much help, hope you get it sorted out. I will keep an eye on your post here.

 

[Bluenotgreen]

Thank you, Tallpaul. I'm not sure if it is a delay that I am experiencing but this is certainly what the supplier of the bike is suggesting. My concern is that this delay, or whatever it is, was not noticeable when I first used the bike both on roads and on rough tracks. My wife has a similar bike so sometime over the weekend we will swap bikes and compare how they perform. Nevertheless, I like the performance of my bike - without it I would not be out on two wheels.

 

[E-Wheels]

I own a hard tail, electric Haibike mountain bike. This has done less than 500 miles and appears to have developed a fault. It has been returned to the dealer for servicing and also to have this fault checked out. It is difficult to actually describe the fault but here goes.
This typically occurs with the power assist in mid-position, in high gear and on a flat, or slightly downhill stretch of road and at a speed of approximately 15 mph with me applying steady pressure to the cranks to maintain this speed. As the cranks are rotated, I occasionally get a slight 'give' in the crank as though a cog was jumping a tooth. This happens intermittently but always in the conditions described. It does not occur when peddling uphill or on rough ground when lower gears are used. The dealer has checked the chains drive, the motor and used his computer to try to find the cause. He has also test ridden the bike and can not find a fault. His conclusion is that 'give' that only I experience is the result of the slight delay as the motor takes up the drive. I did not experience this at any time over the first few hundred miles of riding the machine. The fault just appeared.
Does anyone have ideas about this? Could it be me not riding correctly?
Any help would be greatly appreciated.

@Bluenotgreen,
Is the motor a Bosch or a Yamaha

 

[Bluenotgreen]

Yamaha.

 

[Bluenotgreen]

What I can't understand is the feeling that the crank moves freely for a few degrees without engaginging. Should the take-up not be smooth? Also, what does it occur every four or five revolutions of the crank when the same pressure is being applied. Furthermore, why has it just manifested itself when all was well previously. I don't suppose that my peddling style has changed at all but of course I could be wrong. I might add that I have had a cycle of some sort for well over seventy years (which maybe explains why I need an eBike at this stage in my life).

 

[pxpaulx]

To be honest that sounds more like a mechanical chain type of issue than the motor. Did the dealer check the chain for stretch? Mid drives did wear chains more quickly than a normal bike or a hub drive would. If they are more of an ebikes only dealer they may not have an experienced bike tech to make the right assessment. Just a few thoughts anyway, not sure I can provide any more insight than that!

 

[tallpaul]

I see that you have a Yamaha motor. I have heard that the Bosch and the Yamaha handle their output quite differently, especially in relation to your input.
Good luck sorting it all out.

 

[Bluenotgreen]

To be honest that sounds more like a mechanical chain type of issue than the motor. Did the dealer check the chain for stretch? Mid drives did wear chains more quickly than a normal bike or a hub drive would. If they are more of an ebikes only dealer they may not have an experienced bike tech to make the right assessment. Just a few thoughts anyway, not sure I can provide any more insight than that!

To be honest that sounds more like a mechanical chain type of issue than the motor. Did the dealer check the chain for stretch? Mid drives did wear chains more quickly than a normal bike or a hub drive would. If they are more of an ebikes only dealer they may not have an experienced bike tech to make the right assessment. Just a few thoughts anyway, not sure I can provide any more insight than that!

To be honest that sounds more like a mechanical chain type of issue than the motor. Did the dealer check the chain for stretch? Mid drives did wear chains more quickly than a normal bike or a hub drive would. If they are more of an ebikes only dealer they may not have an experienced bike tech to make the right assessment. Just a few thoughts anyway, not sure I can provide any more insight than that!

Thank you for your suggestion Paul. The dealer checked the chains for wear and they were fine. In fact with so little mileage, I would not have expected otherwise. Back in the old days when cotter pins were used to secure the cranks to the bottom bracket spindle, slight wear on one of these produced pretty much the same sort of feeling when peddling. The dealer went to great lengths to assure that he is an engineer and an expert and that there is absolutely nothing wrong with my bike. However ...........!

 

[Ann M.]

@Bluenotgreen,Gotta watch out for those engineers Sometimes it's something really simple like one link of the chain that is not flexible but tight/ 'sticky'. That could create the symptoms you mention. 5oo miles seems a little soon to be having a stretched chain; however, I do agree with Paul that mid drive motors wear chains faster.

 

[Bluenotgreen]

Thank you for your interst folks. Does not appear to be caused by the possibilities mentioned. I appreciate that there will be a very slight delay in take up when going from free-wheeling to applying pressure to the pedals but the movement that I have attempted to describe is not this. If the 'engineer' has ridden my bike on the two occasions that it has been in his shop and
has been unable to produce a similar effect, could the fault be me and the way I ride? I don't think that I pedal differently from the way that I have pedalled for the last few decades but who knows? I am certainly new to the electric bike so maybe I just need to adapt to this.

 

[Bluenotgreen]

Hi Jay - thank you for your interest. What I am attempting to describe is not a sudden loss of power but total lack of resistance for a few degrees of crank rotation before the drive is taken up again. If I were free-wheeling, I would expect a slight delay before the drive is taken up but this certainly not the case. Maybe not pedalling hard enough?

 

[piper109]

I am quite a new Haibike rider (Yamaha Sduro) and I am slowly coming to grips with how everything works. I cant say I know much at all but I'm trying to learn As has already been said, you have to watch out for those engineers LOL.
One thing goes through my mind. There is a sensor on the spokes which measures the bikes speed and provides an input signal to the computer.
Somehow the computer gets a signal that you have started pedalling again which I think is independant. The combination of that "pedalling" signal, plus the measured wheel speed results in a certain "assist" being applied to the motor. The wheel has to turn a complete revolution before the "speed" signal catches up and could it be that this gives the "hesitation" that you sense ??

 

[EdVille]

Hi Jay - thank you for your interest. What I am attempting to describe is not a sudden loss of power but total lack of resistance for a few degrees of crank rotation before the drive is taken up again. If I were free-wheeling, I would expect a slight delay before the drive is taken up but this certainly not the case. Maybe not pedalling hard enough?

I too have experienced this a couple of times. I have the 2016 Xduro RX (Bosch) and I did not think there was anything wrong mechanically as it is a new bike. It does feel a little strange not experiencing "crank resistance" for a couple of seconds but I just attribute it to some electronic delay or glitch that happens...after all it is a very complicated system we are dealing with. However, I hope they (Haibike or Yamaha engineers) figure out how to fix/eliminate it altogether.

 

[piper109]

In looking closer at my bike, I came to the realization that not only is there a freewheel in the rear cluster like a traditional bike but there is also a freewheeling mechanism in the motor drive itself. When you turn the pedals backwards, you can hear a free wheel ratchet system in the motor drive and the chain and rear cluster do not move at all. Mine clicks about 19 times in one revolution and consequently there is some "take up" when you start pedalling that has nothing to do with the rear cluster.
I would like to have a better understanding of the motor drive mechanism but info is hard to find.
So far I have found out that the PW-X mechanism on the 2017 models is different and probably more sophisticated than the PW mechanism on the 2016 models and that the rpm when "assistance" ceases is higher on the later drive. The pedalling cadence of the PW-X is electrically assisted till 120 rpm whereas the PW is electrically assisted till 100rpm I believe. Most of our bikes have this "assistance speed" limited electronically, I think to meet regulations and this is probably what the "dongles" modify.
Does anyone know where more technical information can be found ?

 

[piper109]

For folks who might be technically inclined, I am adding a couple of url's which go into some of the developments of the drives of our bikes. The first shows the latest drives on the 2017 Haibike (usual models anyway) that recently have been "upgraded" from Yamaha PW drives to PW-X. I do not know if this is just for 500Watt versions or if it includes the 250 Watt.

(Link Removed - No Longer Exists)

The second is an article from a British company and I found it very interesting, particularly for those who wish to know more about the differences between the Bosch drive and the Yamaha drives used on Haibikes and perhaps others too.

https://www.e-bikeshop.co.uk/blog/post/bosch-yamaha-ebikes-differences-explained/

I realize that neither of these articles address the original question of this posting but thought they might be of interest to some.

 

[pxpaulx]

Since this is becoming a bit of a motor discussion, fwiw the pw-x motor from Yamaha will not be in the US on the 2017 models. Haibike simply isn't bringing them to the US this year. Bh also has Yamaha models including some with the pw-x motor, they aren't bringing any of their Yamaha bikes to the US this year at all!

 

[Bluenotgreen]

I am quite a new Haibike rider (Yamaha Sduro) and I am slowly coming to grips with how everything works. I cant say I know much at all but I'm trying to learn As has already been said, you have to watch out for those engineers LOL.
One thing goes through my mind. There is a sensor on the spokes which measures the bikes speed and provides an input signal to the computer.
Somehow the computer gets a signal that you have started pedalling again which I think is independant. The combination of that "pedalling" signal, plus the measured wheel speed results in a certain "assist" being applied to the motor. The wheel has to turn a complete revolution before the "speed" signal catches up and could it be that this gives the "hesitation" that you sense ??

I am quite a new Haibike rider (Yamaha Sduro) and I am slowly coming to grips with how everything works. I cant say I know much at all but I'm trying to learn As has already been said, you have to watch out for those engineers LOL.
One thing goes through my mind. There is a sensor on the spokes which measures the bikes speed and provides an input signal to the computer.
Somehow the computer gets a signal that you have started pedalling again which I think is independant. The combination of that "pedalling" signal, plus the measured wheel speed results in a certain "assist" being applied to the motor. The wheel has to turn a complete revolution before the "speed" signal catches up and could it be that this gives the "hesitation" that you sense ??

 

[Bluenotgreen]

Hi Piper, Thank you for your interest in the problem that I have described. I think that your suggestion roughly describes what I have been experiencing. I will be out on the bike later this week and will be trying to reproduce what I consider to be a problem and will post what happened.