Help Me Choose A Fat Tire Ebike - RadRover / Yukon / M2S / Hype / ETC

[MysticalFists]

Howdy,
First time poster, although I've been watching Court's videos and reading all your reviews for like 2 months now, and I'm getting closer to biting the bullet. Hell, I'd already have bought my RadRover if they were still in stock, but I'm still having to wait a week. Since I'm waiting, I've continued to look at more and more fat tire bikes and I'm curious what everyone else's thoughts are on 26x4 Fat Tire ebikes.

About Me:

• I'm a daily bike commuter, 35 years old with a learners permit, so biking is my only form of transportation (I hate driving cars).
• I also live in Minnesota, so this bike will be facing harsh conditions 24/7/365. We're also the land of 10,000 lakes, and I plan to ride this thing on whatever trail necessary to visit em all, LoL!
• Minnesota state law requires 1000 watt or less motor, 20mph or less speed (although I have been looking at ones that go higher).
• I'm mostly looking at bikes in a $1500 range, but am not against reviews of higher priced bikes.
• Looking for class 2 or 3 (I like both pedal assist and some form of throttle)
• Would like at least a front fork suspension.

Rad Power Bikes / RadRover 2016 $1,499.00
- Pros:

1. Class 2 (Pedal Assist w/ Twist Throttle)
2. Integrated design
3. Front Fork Suspension
4. Shimano Acera
5. Tektro Aries mechanical 180mm w/ motor inhibitor
6. 750w Bafang motor w/ 48v 11.6ah Panasonic battery
7. 20mph

- Cons:

1. 1 year warranty
2. I have to wait a week before it's back in stock, lol

VoltBike / Yukon 750 2017 $1,499.00
- Pros:

1. Class 2 (Pedal Assist w/ Trigger Throttle)
2. Integrated design
3. Front Fork Suspension
4. 750w Bafang motor w/ 48v 10.4ah Sanyo battery
5. 20mph

- Cons:

1. 1 year warranty
2. Shimano Tourney
3. Tektro Novela mechanical 160mm w/ motor inhibitor

Hype Bikes / HF1000 2017 $1,499.00
- Pros:

1. Class 3 (Pedal Assist w/ Trigger Throttle)
2. Front Fork Suspension
3. Shimano Altus,
4. Shimano BR-M375 mechanical 180mm w/ motor inhibitor
5. 1000w MAC motor w/ 48v 13.2ah LG battery

- Cons:

1. 1 year warranty
2. Non-Integrated
3. 30mph would need a license
4. Not a lot of reviews on this bike or company that I could find
5. Better battery and torque sensor are optional upgrades raising the price.

M2S / All Terrain R750 2017 $1,550.00
- Pros:

1. Class 3 (Pedal Assist w/ Button Throttle)
2. 2 year warranty
3. Integrated design
4. Shimano Acera
5. Tektro Hydrolic w/ motor inhibitor (no clue what size break rotors are though)
6. 750w Bafang motor w/ 48v 17ah Panasonic battery

- Cons:

1. Suspension is optional raising the price
2. 28mph would need a license
3. Appears this company simply orders bulk bike shipments from China and rebrands them, but I couldn't find a lot of first hand reviews either.

While doing these reviews, I've actually collected together specs and stats of nearly 50 fat tire ebikes in a spreadsheet (I'm a very analytical person) so if anyone's interested in that information, you can find it here:

Thoughts?

 

[AguassissiM]

Just to add one more choice for you have a look here: http://teofatbike.com/boutique/en
or here: https://electricbikereview.com/forums/threads/teo-fat-bike.12326/

 

[DWN]

rad rover

 

[MysticalFists]

Just to add one more choice for you have a look here: http://teofatbike.com/boutique/en
or here: https://electricbikereview.com/forums/threads/teo-fat-bike.12326/

Thank you so much for the link @AguassissiM . I read the entire 8 pages because there were so many details, especially with aftermarket parts and support. Now you've really got me considering a Teo LT simply for the facts it seems to have the options I want like Front Fork Suspension, Twist Throttle with Pedal Assist, Shimano Alivio (nice upgrade) and especially the Tektro Auriga Hydrolic brakes, and 17ah 48v Panasonic battery. None of the bikes I've been looking at even have Hydrolic brakes cause they only seem to come on the $2k or higher bikes, and I was having to find an after market battery if I wanted amp hours above 12, lol. Nice bike yo!~

EDIT:
Won't lie, I've been sold on the RadRover for a bit, but was disappointed in the mechanical brakes and low amp hour battery. Was considering buying it, but using a battery from Lunacycle, lol

 

[AguassissiM]

@MysticalFists
Glad to help, sorry for messing up your mind with another bike choice, if you visit their website you can change the currency to USD or CAD

 

[MysticalFists]

Yeah, I put the bike in cart with all options to figure it out, but was just over $1800. Not bad at all, except I did see another poster from the US had to pay addiitional taxes after delivery (about $200). Still, with the upgraded battery and brakes, totally worth an extra $200-$400 over the RadRover, which is currently my first choice. I'm strongly having to consider the Teo S LT!~

 

[AguassissiM]

yep, unfortunately we all have to pay for the taxmens coffee.

 

[SuperGoop]

Personally, I think the battery style on the RadRover looks a bit dated. I prefer the non-proprietary battery integrated in the downtube, like the Yukon 750, Teofatbike, Juiced CrossCurrents, Magnum Peak, etc.

If I lived in the U.S., I would buy the 2017 Magnum Peak, which has a large battery and hydraulic brakes also, front derailleur for more gearing options, for US$1,999 free shipping!

 

[MysticalFists]

What would you suggest for a fat tire bike? I already own a Specialized 2016 Crosstrail Sport Disc bike, that I've been using daily, but have only been looking at fat tire bikes because of the mass snow we sometimes get in Minnesota.

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

Hype Bikes / HF1000 2017 $1,499.00
- Pros:

1. Class 3 (Pedal Assist w/ Trigger Throttle)
2. Front Fork Suspension
3. Shimano Altus,
4. Shimano BR-M375 mechanical 180mm w/ motor inhibitor
5. 1000w MAC motor w/ 48v 13.2ah LG battery

- Cons:

1. 1 year warranty
2. Non-Integrated
3. 30mph would need a license
4. Not a lot of reviews on this bike or company that I could find
5. Better battery and torque sensor are optional upgrades raising the price.

Good to see your analysis. I wonder if you have test ridden any eBike?

My vote would go to Juiced HyperFat because it has a good torque sensor and the ride quality with a T sensor would be vastly different (+ve) compared to any bike a cadence sensor.
Also, the DIY community holds MAC motor as one of the best.

If you just wanted a good bike, RadRover works fine but if you're looking for bike-like feel, T sensor is a must. The fact that you could upgrade the battery to 48V, 21Ah and charge it to 80% is a tremendous advantage. It will improve the longevity of the battery 3-4 fold.

 

[MysticalFists]

Unfortunately I've found a large lack of eBikes to test ride in Minnesota, except for like $3000+ bikes like Pedego or brand-name bikes like Specialized that are overpriced and don't offer a fat tire type. Part of why I'm looking at all the information I can find on em, since I'm buying online sight unseen. Hate buying stuff for $1000+ that I don't get hands-on with first, lol.

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

Unfortunately I've found a large lack of eBikes to test ride in Minnesota, except for like $3000+ bikes like Pedego or brand-name bikes like Specialized that are overpriced and don't offer a fat tire type. Part of why I'm looking at all the information I can find on em, since I'm buying online sight unseen. Hate buying stuff for $1000+ that I don't get hands-on with first, lol.

Any number of excel sheets won't equal to half day testing of E-bikes.

I am sure you could find a Specialized store that offers the Turbo Levo. They do make fat tire E-bikes: (Link Removed - No Longer Exists)

 

[Bicyclista]

I agree with Ravi. The Juiced HyperFat comes with suspension fork and headlight as standard equipment, and seems to be the most upgradable. As Ravi mentioned, you can upgrade to MAC motor, a 1kW battery and a cadence+torque sensor. You can also upgrade to hydraulic disc brakes, a "high torque" motor, rack, fenders, and a Grin Tech charger. In addition to the medium-size frame, it appears that Juiced will offer small and large sizes later in 2017. Intriguingly, the frame has a "BBSHD-ready geometry." So, you could possibly run two motors simultaneously? One hub motor plus a mid-drive! What fun! Of course, no word on whether the controller can handle two motors simultaneously... Of course, adding all these upgrades will blow your budget.

 

[MysticalFists]

Good info and perspective people. I do like a lot of the options with the Jucied HyperFat. I don't really want to wait until July, but the sheer amount of additional options makes it a great contender.

 

[James Kohls]

Yes, our selection of eBike dealers in Minnesota is pretty thin. Those that do sell eBikes rarely carry much stock and often means you will still have to buy sight unseen. I am personally considering the Specialized Turbo Levo HT Comp Fat that @Ravi Kempaiah mentioned. It is among my top contenders because it can handle very wide tires. Tho, I saw that @racer83l was able to fit 4.8" Jumbo Jims on his Rad Rover. But cadence sensing is just not for me.

Your desire for a throttle probably means sticking to Internet online brands as most major brands that stores carry around here are all switching or have switched to mid-drive setups without throttles. The Juiced HyperFat is interesting, but for an online bike, my personal thought is to wait until people have had them for a while. See what bugs crop up after wide release. Given its option for a torque sensor, it would by my recommendation given your preferred budget.

Speaking from experience, I do think that local dealer support and repair is worth a significant chunk of change. Thousands of dollars more? That's up to the individual. The biggest concerns I have with purchasing an eBike from an online dealer is support for proprietary components—basically, the e-part. Typically these companies handle electronic repairs via mail. May want to check with owners about who pays for return shipping of damaged parts (and if they require such thing). This would also place you on the hook for replacing them—something that depends on your comfort with such things. Most I've seen don't appear overly complicated.

One that may be of note, that is available from Eric's Bike Shop in MN, is the iZip E3 Sumo. The 2015 model has a throttle and is technically a speed pedalec. Downside to your wish list is no suspension fork. But there's nothing stopping you from adding one later. Maybe the big fat tires will be sufficient for your needs. Uses TranzX mid-drive and is on closeout for $2399.
https://electricbikereview.com/izip/2015-e3-sumo/
http://www.eriksbikeshop.com/IZIP-2015-Sumo-Electric-Fat-Bike/PR3E3955/Product

Or there's the new Bosch center drive (no throttle) version for $2899.
https://electricbikereview.com/izip/e3-sumo/
http://www.eriksbikeshop.com/IZIP-2017-Sumo-Electric-Fat-Bike-Electric-Bike/PR3E9369/Product

If you live in an Eric's market, you'd have local dealer support.

Edit: In a month or two, they'll be releasing the Raleigh version of the Sumo. Not sure if it will be $2899 like the Sumo or the MSRP of $3199. (Starts @ ~1m29s)

 

[Bicyclista]

James Kohls, you make many good points, specially regarding the value of local dealer support and regarding exercising caution with the new HyperFat until other users have uncovered its bugs.

However, I have to disagree with your statement: "But there's nothing stopping you from adding [a suspension fork] later." If the frame geometry is not "suspension-corrected", adding a suspension fork may make handling squirrely. I don't know if the iZip E3 Sumo has a suspension-corrected geometry, but I would definitively ask the manufacturer before buying an aftermarket suspension fork.

Some manufacturers, such as Surly, make a point of noting which of their frames is "suspension-corrected." Unfortunately, Surly does not make any ebikes (I wish their Big Fat Dummy was an electric bike!). As far as I know, no manufacturer of ebikes tells us whether their frames are suspension-corrected. You either get them with suspension or you don't. (Anybody, please correct me if I'm wrong.)

 

[James Kohls]

Thanks @Bicyclista. Speaking from my own ignorance there. I was not aware of suspension-corrected frames. I heard Court mention adding one in his 2017 Sumo review (he didn't specifically say you could properly do so—only that some may want to).

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

James Kohls, you make many good points, specially regarding the value of local dealer support and regarding exercising caution with the new HyperFat until other users have uncovered its bugs.

However, I have to disagree with your statement: "But there's nothing stopping you from adding [a suspension fork] later." If the frame geometry is not "suspension-corrected", adding a suspension fork may make handling squirrely. I don't know if the iZip E3 Sumo has a suspension-corrected geometry, but I would definitively ask the manufacturer before buying an aftermarket suspension fork.

Some manufacturers, such as Surly, make a point of noting which of their frames is "suspension-corrected." Unfortunately, Surly does not make any ebikes (I wish their Big Fat Dummy was an electric bike!). As far as I know, no manufacturer of ebikes tells us whether their frames are suspension-corrected. You either get them with suspension or you don't. (Anybody, please correct me if I'm wrong.)

"Suspension corrected geometry"

This would be important if you add let's say 120mm travel fork on a bike that is only designed for short rigid fork. Frames that are designed with this "correction" would yield no significant difference in handling even if you change out the rigid ones for a longer suspensions.
Most rigid forks are shorter than suspension forks and to offset this, manufacturers like Salsa, Surly have released frames that can accommodate certain changes without making the bike too squirrely. In fact, you can even find "suspension corrected rigid forks" that are longer than the typical rigid forks.

Also, running BBS-HD in conjunction with a powerful hub motor would be completely unnecessary and heavy. Tora designed the frames in such a way that you can simply remove the rear wheel and install a BBS-HD and plug into the same battery if that's what customers prefer.

Juiced bikes has certain advantage compared to all other brands because they make their own battery packs and enable 8-10A charging , modularity and upgradeability.
PS: I spent insane amount of time last fall figuring out how to add RockShox air fork to Haibike SuperRace w/o ruining the nimbleness.

 

[Bicyclista]

Ravi, thank you for your expertise. So, adding a suspension fork to ANY bike is OK as long as you don't exceed, say, 100mm of travel?

And the BBSHD option for the HyperFat is instead of rather than in addition to? Boring!

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

Ravi, thank you for your expertise. So, adding a suspension fork to ANY bike is OK as long as you don't exceed, say, 100mm of travel?

And the BBSHD option for the HyperFat is instead of rather than in addition to? Boring!

Yes!
The thing is, rigid forks don't have any sag. Their length is fixed. Suspension forks do have some sag when the rider is seated.
Some suspension forks may alter the rake angle a tiny bit but if you're replacing a rigid fork with similar travel fork (e.g., 100mm instead of 150mm) it'l be fine.