Help choosing an air fork

[PCeBiker]

I didn't like the Manitou forks.
They were worth around $350 new, and I bought them used for $75 from my friend.

They were typical bike forks with damping in one tube and suspension in the other.
The suspension was just a piece of tubular rubber (hopefully urethane?) and you'd screw it down further to increase the preload.

When I would land hard, the wheel would twist between the fork tubes and I could hear the nobbs of the tire hitting the fork tube even with the fork brace that is supposed to keep everything ridgid.

The fork tubes have different compression pressures because one side is preload and the other side is damping.


It's the same thing on my e-bike.
When I lock out the fork, only one tube is locked and the other is free floating by comparison and the wheel could potentially twist.
You're basically standing on one fork tube.


They really should build an ebike with dual disk front brakes and forks with damping AND preload in both fork tubes so everything is balanced and even.
You might even be able to delete the fork brace?
The double shoulder forks don't have a fork brace.

Yeah, I know, too much weight, but they do have 4 piston brake calipers, so just use two smaller dual piston calipers and two smaller brake disks.
That, along with no fork brace might make up for the weight difference.

 

[fooferdoggie]

Not for binding....
Got this quote from Muc Off which I totally agree with and has been my experience.
"MUC-OFF: Keeping your fork stanchions well lubricated is vital as it reduces the stiction between the wiper seal and the stanchion, which improves small bump sensitivity and trail buzz as the stiction is dramatically reduced. It also helps to keep dirt off the stanchion and seals as the silicon repels dirt and grime to the surfaces cleaner and hence reduces the risk of contaminants getting into the wiper seal (and in turn your fork oil)."

Here's the entire article where Rockshox disagrees but they also recommend rebuilding the shock every 50 hours which I find ridiculous.
Well over 500 hours on my Manitou and about 100 hours on my Rockshox and they're both working perfectly.

Feel free to do what you will.

but this is off-road use where things are much different. I have some of that lube never really noticed a difference. on our tandem I see maybe a little leaking after 11,000 miles so time for a rebuild. but that's not down hill riding that's totally different then what most of os here do.

 

[Gionnirocket]

but this is off-road use where things are much different. I have some of that lube never really noticed a difference. on our tandem I see maybe a little leaking after 11,000 miles so time for a rebuild. but that's not down hill riding that's totally different then what most of os here do.

Not necessarily off road.
There's benefits on paved surfaces as well. The improvement is most noticeable on the the micro bumps and vibrations as they are reduced, not big bumps that force the stanchions to travel easily.
But then riding a 400lb tandem is definitely not what most here are doing anyway... so what do you know.

 

[fooferdoggie]

Not necessarily off road.
There's benefits on paved surfaces as well. The improvement is most noticeable on the the micro bumps and vibrations as they are reduced, not big bumps that force the stanchions to travel easily.
But then riding a 400lb tandem is definitely not what most here are doing anyway... so what do you know.

ya the tandem would not let you feel much for sure. Tires make bigger difference.

 

[PCeBiker]

Okay all this talk on suspension.
When there was a break from the rain l went and ride to my Dad's house and I was trying to feel every micro bumps and dips on mostly asphalt surface and sidewalks sports mode going off and on curbs.
It perform flawless.

I'm agreeing with @Gionnirocket and think that you should clean and lube all your stanchions regardless.
I look at it as a healthy dose of preventative maintenance with no ill effects.

All those bubble baths can dry out and parch your seals.

I've only ever washed my e-bike once but I've probably lubed my forks more often than you've washed your e-bike.

 

[PCeBiker]

Vaseline?

NO NOT VASELINE !!
Your Seals Might Be Made With Petroleum Based Rubber !!

Use proper fork lube.

Get the Park Tool stuff.
It's kinda expensive but I trust park tool and you only need a tiny bit to lube your stanchions.
It'll last you a decade.

 

[PCeBiker]

Actually, the Park Tool stuff is a thin grease.

This is the stuff I've got and it is really watery.

It IS specifically designed for stanchions. It shows a fork stanchion in the picture.
It will be easier to apply and wipe off afterwards.
It's $4 a bottle on AliExpress but either way you'll need to learn to read Chinese if you want to read the directions.

 

[PCeBiker]

PS,.. The Canadian made WPL is made from plants.
As much as that might help save the environment, I don't think that it would work as well as urethane or silicone lube.

I could just just rub pine needles and daisies on my stanchions if I wanted to lube them naturally.

 

[PCeBiker]

Okay I will look into it.
I spent a lot of money on my forks and want to preserve kashima coating.

I had to Google that and found this video,..

The Kashima part is at 13:55

And this,..

Interestingly, I found forks that appear to be Kashima coated.??..
They're the same price as the black stanchions.

I'm sure that the gold ones are just coated with acrylic.
That's what nail polish is made out of.
You use nail polish to fix Kashima coating that's peeling off.

I'm thinking that maybe Kashima coating might be just a really expensive proprietary acrylic coating?

I could coat my stanchions with a $2 bottle of clear acrylic nail polish.
Thin it out and spray it on or dip it in acrylic.


Either way, I can't see fork lube damaging your coating.
It may in fact help protect the coating by reducing friction even more and sealing the coating protecting it from corrosion and maybe UV light as well?
Like rubbing Armour All on your tires and dash.

 

[PCeBiker]

Let me go off topic.
Have you been following NFL?
I am favoring Baltimore over Kansas on tomorrow game giving 3 points and going under on San Francisco vs Detroit.

That's the game that uses a ball that isn't round and it's made out of pig skin right??

I had an Electronic Quarterback when I was ~14.
Does that count?

 

[PCeBiker]

I don't watch sports or do team sports.
I've done lots of sports but I prefer to be alone because I'm a complete jackass and I'll end up trying to show off if there's an audience and I'll end up getting hurt.

I remember going through a corner near my home with a 40 kph caution sign at 120 kph on my street bike when I was 19.

I made that corner at that speed at least a dozen times, but one day there was two guys pushing their dirt bike down the road so of course, I had to go faster.

I ended up going off the road at 140 kph, slid on my ass, and landed in a creek.

Luckily the two dirt bikers helped me push the bike out of the creek and onto the road. They said that I needed to get outta here. The cops were just here. (that's why they were pushing their dirt bike, someone reported them).

I pushed the ignition button and the instrument cluster went black and I didn't have a kick start, so I asked them to push me and managed to bump start it and rode home with a smashed headlight lense and my signals were broken off and dangling by the wires.

They wanted over a $100 for a new headlight assembly so I said F-That and scored a headlight from an abandoned junker car and cut the square lense off the front and hot-glued it to my headlight housing.
Hot-glue fixed my signals too.

 

[PCeBiker]

Bob Marley I'm listening to enjoy the ride on my leather massagee recliner.
Debating if I put more money on Baltimore.

I got speakers, a turntable, and a stereo receiver for Christmas in 1978.

Bob Marley's Exodus was my first album.
I played it THOUSANDS of times. I actually wore out the record and had to replace it.
I still listen to it, especially when I need to chillax. (I'm gonna play it now.)
I don't do vinyl any more but I have it on CD and cassette.

Bob Marley's Legand is almost the same album with a couple different tracks.

 

[PCeBiker]

I had a 1982 Honda XR200R, a 1983 Honda CB550 Nighthawk, and a 1984 (I think?) Yamaha XT200.

I loved the Hondas, but the Yamaha was a piece of crap with a shitty suspension that would always bottom out and it would barely go the 80 kph speed limit on the highway. (I had to pedal to go faster up the hills. )

My XR would go 115 kph and it had the awesome pro-link rear suspension.

The suspension was cammed, so the shock would compress faster as the wheel was pushed up farther.

It had a big threaded ring on the shock that I could rotate to adjust the preload.
I rubbed candle wax on the threads, so I could reach in and turn the adjuster ring without tools.

The wax had just enough anti-stiction properties to allow me to turn the ring by hand.
And it didn't attract mud so the threads didn't get full of crud and jam the ring.


I didn't want a two stoke CR because they're noisy, stinky, I didn't like the power band, and you had to rebuild the engine every year, but your CR250 probably had 3 times the power of my XR200R

 

[Gionnirocket]

Okay all this talk on suspension.
When there was a break from the rain l went and ride to my Dad's house and I was trying to feel every micro bumps and dips on mostly asphalt surface and sidewalks sports mode going off and on curbs.
It perform flawless.
Needless to say my biking legs got its 10 mile daily dose.

You won't know what your missing until you lube them.
Just make sure to use the proper stuff.
I like this one, SLICKOLEUM... But there are many.
I also use it as an assembly lube. Especially if I know I'll be taking it apart again sometime in the future.

Around here... Everyone is rooting for Detroit!

 

[PCeBiker]

Around here... Everyone is rooting for Detroit!

View attachment 170346

Actually, I live less than 100 miles from Detroit, (the way the crow flies) so I'm rooting for the blue team too.

 

[m@Robertson]

Ohh,.. Even the rear shock??
I do like how rear shocks are generally inverted so dirt tends to work it's way off the stanchion instead of working it's way inside the shock.

And why are dust boots such a taboo?

Are they too heavy for the professionals?

I'm making boots for my forks.
I had to cut them to install them.

View attachment 170320


The new double shoulder air shocks allow me to remove each fork leg from the shoulders to install a fork boot without cutting it.

Well, if absolutely nobody uses them or recommends them, including manufacturers and professional riders, that is probably strong testament to them being at least not helpful and potentially a downright bad idea.

 

[Gionnirocket]

There you have it.
Rubber seals are replaceable on my bikes.
Soap and wax does no harm to it.
Next year It will be renewed.

I was joking about the bubble bath.
But seriously the difference after lubricating the stanchion can only be experienced. The improvement is in the little things. It's like a brand new shock.

 

[Gionnirocket]

Ohhhh.... Tuned by a pro. I didn't realize that.
Yes it's either tuned by a pro or lubricate the stanchions for us simple folk

 

[PCeBiker]

Well, if absolutely nobody uses them or recommends them, including manufacturers and professional riders, that is probably strong testament to them being at least not helpful and potentially a downright bad idea.

OK I'll remove the boots and go back to just lubing them with fork lube, and I'll stop squirting grease under the seal lip.

 

[PCeBiker]

When my Monte Capro came New it was not tuned for me. Shock absorber wise.

When I have adjustable rebound/compression damping, preload adjustment, or any other adjustments on my suspension, I always play with all the buttons and dials and decide for myself how I want to tune it.
I used to crank up the preload on my dirt bike for the dirt then soften the ride for the road.

I'm looking forward to getting air shocks.
I just bought one of these so I can start adjusting and feeling out my new forks.

Now I just need to pick out a pair of forks.