Have you seen the revised Helios?
- Thread starter Ebiker33
- Start date
TomD
Well-Known Member
Are those the wooden frames? I assume it's fair game to post the step thru renders.
Still wondering if the seat post on the step thru needs more reinforcement. Seem like there will be a lot of torque down low. Compare to the beefiness of the seat post reinforcement on the Helios render to the Frey CC and R&M Homage step thru keeping in mind those are aluminum frames whereas helios is CF.
Still wondering if the seat post on the step thru needs more reinforcement. Seem like there will be a lot of torque down low. Compare to the beefiness of the seat post reinforcement on the Helios render to the Frey CC and R&M Homage step thru keeping in mind those are aluminum frames whereas helios is CF.
m@Robertson
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
I really like the rack. Thats part of what is MIA on street commuters: Full suspension and a rack to carry your crap. I really liked the Frey CC for that reason but could never bring myself to buy one.
Ebiker33
Well-Known Member
"The Helios is a carbon fiber, full suspension commuter."
So it will be pretty rare, who else does a carbon fiber full suspension step through?
pushkar
Well-Known Member
We will be going through the frame specific tests too. The seat post on the step through has a little more material than the diamond.Are those the wooden frames? I assume it's fair game to post the step thru renders.
View attachment 104447
View attachment 104446
Still wondering if the seat post on the step thru needs more reinforcement. Seem like there will be a lot of torque down low. Compare to the beefiness of the seat post reinforcement on the Helios render to the Frey CC and R&M Homage step thru keeping in mind those are aluminum frames whereas helios is CF.
Typical molds in carbon can also be made with EPS. We just used wood and steel - quicker to do it like that.
pushkar
Well-Known Member
Kickstand will be pletcher comp 40. Aluminum.
What are the rest of the specs like suspension travel, weight, tire, and frame options?
Mulezen
Well-Known Member
US-made Watt Wagons Helios e-bike unveiled: high quality, high performance, high price
Watt Wagons is the Boston-based electric bicycle company behind some of the most highly specced electric bikes in the country....
electrek.co
BillyDeeFour
Member
This is my next bike. When can I place an order?
pushkar
Well-Known Member
You can come check out the frames and the test build next week.This is my next bike. When can I place an order?
What size battery? Same as the Hydra?
pushkar
Well-Known Member
larger - just north of 1kw. But with 21700 cells so pretty close weight wise.
BillyDeeFour
Member
Thanks for the quick response. See you next week.
As a potential customer for Watt Wagon I have been following the relative threads for quite some time.
As such , I have noticed that Pushkar is very attentive when selling a product and not so much after the sale
I am a current owner (and have owned many ebikes) of the 2020 R&M Delite GT Touring with CX pkg (5,700 miles) And also a 2020 Haibike Full Fat Six 10.0.
The Delite has been rock solid with absolutely no issues. My previous R&M was a Nevo GT Touring HS with 4,300 miles (also rock solid with no issues) before I sold it privately for 50% of what I paid for it new.
As posted earlier: Buyer Beware.
There are many other overall better options out there.
BillyDeeFour
Member
Thanks for the heads up but I’m more than comfortable buying from Watt Wagons. In fact, this will be my second bike from them as I have an UC Pro to ride until it this new model ships. This bike is just what I want and the wait will be worth it to me.As a potential customer for Watt Wagon I have been following the relative threads for quite some time.
As such , I have noticed that Pushkar is very attentive when selling a product and not so much after the sale
I am a current owner (and have owned many ebikes) of the 2020 R&M Delite GT Touring with CX pkg (5,700 miles) And also a 2020 Haibike Full Fat Six 10.0.
The Delite has been rock solid with absolutely no issues. My previous R&M was a Nevo GT Touring HS with 4,300 miles (also rock solid with no issues) before I sold it privately for 50% of what I paid for it new.
As posted earlier: Buyer Beware.
There are many other overall better options out there.
pushkar
Well-Known Member
As a potential customer for Watt Wagon I have been following the relative threads for quite some time.
As such , I have noticed that Pushkar is very attentive when selling a product and not so much after the sale
I am a current owner (and have owned many ebikes) of the 2020 R&M Delite GT Touring with CX pkg (5,700 miles) And also a 2020 Haibike Full Fat Six 10.0.
The Delite has been rock solid with absolutely no issues. My previous R&M was a Nevo GT Touring HS with 4,300 miles (also rock solid with no issues) before I sold it privately for 50% of what I paid for it new.
As posted earlier: Buyer Beware.
There are many other overall better options out there.
@Rider777 I appreciate bringing this up.
1. Other than the now doomed hardtail founder bike debacle, and 3-4 kindernays leaking, we have few issues after sale. Are there other items you are referring to ? Please point them to us.
2. You are absolutely right.. buyer beware. It behooves everyone to read what happens when we have promised stuff we dont have. Learning from all this for us is to test and have a product before we take any orders ( like we did with Hydra/ UC Pro / Crosstour etc). The hardtail (old suer bike) is more an exception than the rule. We cant change what happened in the past.
3. The reason you are happy with a RM, was not just that it was a good bike, but that there was always a dealer to help you in case stuff went wrong. RM also has its blemishes (esp with Rohloff configs ). So let's take all glowing reviews with a pinch of salt. Ditto with buyer beware posts.
4. Folks like are extremely happy to pay 10k for a bike (RM / Specialized) worth 4k in parts if its backed up with good service, physical locations, after sales support etc. I am absolutely thrilled you liked the service with RM, and we hope to emulate that as we move forward. With the new Helios, and all other upcoming bikes, we are also going through a dealer model.
5. We also want to charge a fair price moving forward. The whole founder debacle was not just about missed timelines and terrible luck, but also about cost pressures eventually. With low cost inventory tied up for over 12-14 months, we weren't able to do a whole lot to change / evolve. We have had to return stuff for the lack of funds! Incredible.
Charging a fair price, whatever that happens to be, for a product that is ready to ship, is absolutely what we intend to do. We have realized that trying to drive down cost, crowdfunding etc at our level is detrimental to business.
Thus. moving forward we are not proposing any model unless we are ready to ship or, for existing bikes, we know when the components are available . The current site Hydra and UC pro timelines reflect our new policy. With Helios, we will follow the same model (dealers or a realistic D2C).
We understand our bike may not be for everyone. There will be people who wait, and buy something else, that is great as well. Always buy the bike you like.
Thanks for your reply.
It was well said and your intentions sound good.
RE: Rohloff…..that’s why I bought the Touring model with cassette and chain. It can be easily repaired, it’s way way less expensive initially, efficiency is much better, much less unsprung weight, a more sporty feel, and I can easily change gearing configurations .
RE, your #4: MSRP on my current R&M was $7200, which is what I paid. Not the $10K you mention.
And If/when the bike needs repair (Bosch power train) I can go to one source (the R&M dealer) and have it repaired. Keep in mind I have a little over 10,000 miles on the two R&M’s I’ve owned without any ebike related problems. Sure I’ve changed a chain or two , brake pads , the usual owner performed maintenance items. Easy.
If I’m not mistaken if a WW needs repair the buyer has to contact you/WW and wait (sometimes quite a while) for a response and then troubleshoot over the phone. If that is successful (would be a challenge) then I believe you’d have to contact the manufacturer of broken component and work out a solution. This could/would take weeks and weeks and to say the least very frustrating for the buyer.
Doesn’t seem worth roughly the same money for an R&M or other mainstream manufacturer.
I really really like the bikes that I currently own……hence the high miles in a short time of use.
Thanks !
pushkar
Well-Known Member
Cool. That bike is $~2.8k in parts, including motor, battery, lights, frame, components. assembly. There is a premium for RM- including service etc, and I am glad you are getting the service you paid for. That is what we want to achieve - great pre and post sales service, in addition to a great bike.
Boom. Dealerships are great. Must have for a premium brand.
Looking through all logged service tickets, Kindernay is the only one where we have had over 1 week delay, cos they havent allowed us to service directly. We also had 2 motors that just took forever to resolve. We have pretty much prioritized existing customers over any new order. May be not the way to do. This is across 2 years work of post sales service - Most parts (brake levers, broken belts, derailleurs, battery connections etc.) are sent out asap or within a reasonable amount of time. Riders may still have to go get it installed at a bike shop, but that process has been somewhat less problematic.
Issue we are running into today, post delivery, are slightly more involved - e.g. someone buys a bike, we ship it, and the brake needs to be re-bled (maguras esp). That SUCKS. There is literally no recourse but to go to a dealer and get it done the right way. Or the cables were too loose when assembling the bike back. Dealerships and a solid trained tech will help us address it.
Happy riding.
We are not perfect. We are putting out a good product. We need to get much, much better at setting the right expectations. There have been times where we / I are not able to follow up despite setting up deadlines - that has to stop. We dont want to do that anymore. We absolutely will hear some negative reviews for the past eff-ups for the next 3-4 months till the new bike is in rider's hands - hopefully the product and service will speak to it.
TomD
Well-Known Member
The inventory was paid for by founder money. Without founder money there would be no inventory. It didn't matter that money was tied up in inventory. You crowd sourced a bike at close to zero profit margin, so when things went bad you end up eating the loss ( assuming you pay everyone back) which eats into your free capital. If you hadn't crowd sourced, you still eat those losses. Inventory had nothing to do with it. You are perhaps fortunate that you could return the inventory in this COVID environment. What constrained you from moving forward was a commitment, which you ultimately needed to break away from.
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