Got my 2015 base Turbo out for the first time in over 1.5 years

[Douglas Ruby]

My 2015 model year base Turbo currently has about 1800 miles on it, mostly in 2016 and 2017. Unfortunately, it got almost NO riding at all last season (2018) because I broke my right hand on May 10, 2018. My last ride was April 28, 2018 (16.3 miles) and prior to that was late October of 2017 with hiatus for the winter. So here we are on May 18, 2019, over a year since my last ride and nearly 1.5 years since I had done much consistent riding. My daughter called me and asked me to go riding with her on a beautiful Saturday morning. We only went about 10 miles, but what a joy!

I had not ridden this wonderful bike for quite some time, and in my down time I had changed over the stem (suspended), seatpost (suspended), and handlebars (back to stock), cleaned the chain, derailleur and all sprockets, and installed new brake pads. Saturday's ride ended up being a "tune up" ride to the local bike shop which was holding an "e-bike" day with lots of new bikes. NONE of which held any interest for me. I did end up having to tweak handlebar control positioning and fix a rubbing rear brake pad, but after the on the road repairs, my Turbo rode beautifully with an easy 20+ mph cruise and a great deal more ride comfort due to the most recent changes.

My gen-1 Turbo runs better than new, since it has some useful modifications. The frame, wheels, cranks, front sprocket, and motor are stock. Everything else has changed:

1. Stock brakes updated with Kool-Stop DS-330 heat-sink pads.
2. Shimano Deore XT M8000 11 speed - (11-42 cluster)
3. Upgrade from 462 Wh battery to 691 Wh battery from Turbo S with bluetooth connectivity.
4. Kinekt suspension seatpost
5. Redshift Shockstop stem (stock length)
6. Specialized rack and fender kit.
7. Garmin 1000 ride computer
8. Older trek handlebar speedo/cadence as backup to Garmin and Specialized control panel
9. Ergon GP5 handlebar grips
10. Shimano PD M324 pedals
11. 700Cx38 Michelin e-bike tires

With the current gearing, tires, 691 Wh battery and the 200 Watt motor, I have a range well in excess of 80 miles at the ECO 50 assist level and more than 50 miles at full turbo. The gearing with the 42T rear (48T front) is low enough for the kinds of road climbs I will run into here in New England. The 48T front allows me to maintain assisted cruise above 20 Mph to 28 mph in 9th or 10th gears and only use the 48T-11T top gear ratio as I go above 30 mph.

I cannot wait to have the time to get out more this year! The pictures below are the 2017 bike prior to the new stem and seatpost.

 

[Saratoga Dave]

Doug, good to see you back! I wondered where you’d wandered off to last summer.

 

[Douglas Ruby]

Another ride today. I repaired the "seat light" as well as installed a new headlight, both of which had suffered wiring damage over the years. Everything is working great now. I feel safer now with three tailights (one flasher, two steady) and my headlight aiding visibility.

Aside from the clouds of pine pollen, the riding weather here in New England could not be better. 72F and crisp, dry, clear weather. I was able to do 19.6 miles in just over an hour, for an average speed of 19.4 mph. Using TURBO mode the entire ride, I had 62% battery left. This seems to again corroborate my estimate of a 50 mile range at the TURBO setting. Kept my heart rate up well over 100 and just enjoyed the heck out of the ride.

An observation.

1. The Kinekt seat post is wonderful. Lots of patches at the margins of country roads have not been repaired. I was dodging potholes and taking some pretty rough pavement for a good portion of the ride. This seatpost is so much better than my older one.

2. The Shockstop stem helps but is not nearly as effective as the seatpost. It seems more to dampen road vibration than to actually absorb the impact of shocks the way the seatpost does.

 

[Ebiker01]

The Turbo won’t last longer then 20-25miles if you keep it over 24mph. The faster you go, the less range battery will provide. Try it and you’ll see.
And 48x11 at 30mph requires a very fast cadence. Is better to have a 52T.

 

[Douglas Ruby]

The Turbo won’t last longer then 20-25miles if you keep it over 24mph. The faster you go, the less range battery will provide. Try it and you’ll see.
And 48x11 at 30mph requires a very fast cadence. Is better to have a 52T.

Please note that I have the Turbo S battery (691Wh) designed for a 500W motor in a Turbo with 200W motor. Thus my range in TURBO mode is MUCH better than you mentioned. Also, I ride a normal cadence between 78-85 rpm which means 26+ mph with 48x13 and 30+ with 48x11. After nearly 2000 miles of riding with several 50+ mile rides, I am pretty "dialed in" on range. The older gen 1 Turbo stops providing assist at just over 26 mph anyway (42km/h) rather than 28 mph (45lm/h), so for me, I ride in 10th gear (out of 11) and only use 48x11 for descents above the assist cutoff.

 

[Marci jo]

Another ride today. I repaired the "seat light" as well as installed a new headlight, both of which had suffered wiring damage over the years. Everything is working great now. I feel safer now with three tailights (one flasher, two steady) and my headlight aiding visibility.

Aside from the clouds of pine pollen, the riding weather here in New England could not be better. 72F and crisp, dry, clear weather. I was able to do 19.6 miles in just over an hour, for an average speed of 19.4 mph. Using TURBO mode the entire ride, I had 62% battery left. This seems to again corroborate my estimate of a 50 mile range at the TURBO setting. Kept my heart rate up well over 100 and just enjoyed the heck out of the ride.

An observation.

1. The Kinekt seat post is wonderful. Lots of patches at the margins of country roads have not been repaired. I was dodging potholes and taking some pretty rough pavement for a good portion of the ride. This seatpost is so much better than my older one.

2. The Shockstop stem helps but is not nearly as effective as the seatpost. It seems more to dampen road vibration than to actually absorb the impact of shocks the way the seatpost does.

Yes, I also have a Kinekt suspension seat on my Vado. It made a HUGE difference, especially on the rough pavement, repaired and not repaired potholes.

 

[Ebiker01]

Please note that I have the Turbo S battery (691Wh) designed for a 500W motor in a Turbo with 200W motor. Thus my range in TURBO mode is MUCH better than you mentioned. Also, I ride a normal cadence between 78-85 rpm which means 26+ mph with 48x13 and 30+ with 48x11. After nearly 2000 miles of riding with several 50+ mile rides, I am pretty "dialed in" on range. The older gen 1 Turbo stops providing assist at just over 26 mph anyway (42km/h) rather than 28 mph (45lm/h), so for me, I ride in 10th gear (out of 11) and only use 48x11 for descents above the assist cutoff.

Is not 200watts in Turbo mode. Is putting 650watts at peak. Do the one hour test at 25mph+ In Turbo and then you’ll agree. Unless you weight lesss then 165lb then you may get a 28-32miles range max. ! Over 165lb at those parameters, 20-25miles max. with 0% battery left.
You have a 4amp charger , it will charge fast if it completely drains.
The wh efficiencies at different speeds based on different motor Watts in Pas or throttle mode are imp. to get right when starting a ride.
At 20mph avg. you may use 12-15wh/mile , but at 25mph avg and up your wh/mile rises significantly. The wind resistance is exponentially higher and that will eat the battery watts....

 

[Douglas Ruby]

Is not 200watts in Turbo mode. Is putting 650watts at peak.

Sorry ebiker but that just is not how it works with this bike. Your estimate of range is more in line with the 2015/16 Turbo S (500w motor) than my base Turbo, both using the 691 Wh battery.

Continuous power in Turbo mode is rated at 200 watts, not 650. 650 is a short term peak based on motor temp, torque sensing at the pedals, wheel rpm, erc. This is consistent with my Strava estimates when doing long distance rides. I have hit peaks over lengthy segments of a 300 W power estimate based on speed, elevation, and weight. This is consistent with being a 100W rider on a 200W bike <grin>.

Just yesterday I rode just under 19.6 miles in Turbo mode with an average speed of 19.4 mph with 62% battery left. I weigh 227 lbs, am 68 yrs old, and my average speed includes ascent and descent. My fastest 1 mile segment 22 mph and my slowest was 17 mph. I was working as hard as I could with my heart rate at Level 5 for 32% of the ride.

After 3+ years with this bike I am VERY confident of my data.

 

[Douglas Ruby]

I might add that the gen 1 Turbo (all models) has no real "throttle mode" of any consequence (a 12 mph fixed setting). Here in the US, they are all Class 3 pedal assist. The pedal assist is 100% torque sensing rather than cadence sensing, so the amount of assistance is directly proportional to the amount of effort put in by the rider. While I enjoy riding in Turbo mode, there is NO way I could average 24 mph for any distance (except on a long descent). I can reach 24-26 mph for relatively short distances and have done 1 mile segments as much as 27 mph, but my typical ride average when in Turbo mode in the rolling country roads around my neck of the woods is around 20 mph for distances of 10 miles or more. Too many hills, intersections, stop signs, and rough roads to maintain a steady average above that.

 

[Ebiker01]

I might add that the gen 1 Turbo (all models) has no real "throttle mode" of any consequence (a 12 mph fixed setting). Here in the US, they are all Class 3 pedal assist. The pedal assist is 100% torque sensing rather than cadence sensing, so the amount of assistance is directly proportional to the amount of effort put in by the rider. While I enjoy riding in Turbo mode, there is NO way I could average 24 mph for any distance (except on a long descent). I can reach 24-26 mph for relatively short distances and have done 1 mile segments as much as 27 mph, but my typical ride average when in Turbo mode in the rolling country roads around my neck of the woods is around 20 mph for distances of 10 miles or more. Too many hills, intersections, stop signs, and rough roads to maintain a steady average above that.

Well, i keep explaining you that my point and replies had to do with battery range and efficiency at or above 24-25mph.

And at those speeds and beyond , the 200watts motor will put out 500watts and higher output.


You can ride 2-3miles in Turbo at 25-26mph on flat and that will give you a rough estimate on the wh/mile efficiency for long distance.
And i do not disagree that yes , for an avg. speed of 20mph even in Turbo you can go a long way. But try it at 24-25mph and lmk.

Is not hard , the motor will do the work.
Just be carefull b/c 25mph is fast !

 

[Douglas Ruby]

Ebiker01, thanks for your guidance.

 

[Douglas Ruby]

Ebiker, we may both be correct.

So here is some data...At 20 mph average in TURBO mode I am consuming 13.86Wh/mile as measured by battery drain. This is 276.4 watts in one hour, which is consistent with the rated 200W average power output of my motor at around 75% efficiency. The ONLY way I can average a faster speed over any appreciable distance while still pedalling at an aerobic level is to take advantage of downhills or tailwinds. For short periods, I can put more power into the pedals and bring the average speed up to 24-25 mph, but the excess energy comes from anaerobic exertion on my part, resulting in excessive heart rate and other bad things.

While the motor helps up to 26.2 mph, it depends on more effort on my part for a higher average speed. The motor on the base Turbo just doesn't put out enough power. If I had the 500W Turbo S rear wheel, this would not be an issue. The motor on the Turbo S would be able to get the 24-25 mph average with my measly 100W contribution.

So there is no inconsistency in saying that I can go 50 miles in TURBO mode at 20 mph average and speeds up to the 42kmh assist limit, but I personally cannot average much above 20 mph.

 

[Ebiker01]

Yes, correct. With the other 500W S motor is a lot of fun and easily propels you in Turbo mode. But 20mph is good enough and safer !
The ebikes are very heavy too(55-60lb) , otherwise it would have been easier for any of us to pedal them faster and harder.

 

[Douglas Ruby]

Yes, correct. With the other 500W S motor is a lot of fun and easily propels you in Turbo mode. But 20mph is good enough and safer !

Yes to all of this. A 20 mph average is just fine since my average speed on my old racing bike is around 12-13 mph and when I ride with my daughter, her average is usually around 15-16 mph. I can ride with her at her speed, even provide a draft, at no more the Eco40 to Eco50 level. Then my range is closer to 100 miles.

The base Turbo puts out enough power for my needs and with the Turbo S battery gives me more range than I can typically use. I have only run the battery down from 100% to 5% once, on a 55 mile ride at Eco 70% to full 100% Turbo output levels at an average of approaching 18 mph.

 

[vincent]

hey Douglas

sorry to hear about your hand

glad you are back riding and posting!

 

[Ebiker01]

Yes to all of this. A 20 mph average is just fine since my average speed on my old racing bike is around 12-13 mph and when I ride with my daughter, her average is usually around 15-16 mph. I can ride with her at her speed, even provide a draft, at no more the Eco40 to Eco50 level. Then my range is closer to 100 miles.

The base Turbo puts out enough power for my needs and with the Turbo S battery gives me more range than I can typically use. I have only run the battery down from 100% to 5% once, on a 55 mile ride at Eco 70% to full 100% Turbo output levels at an average of approaching 18 mph.

Yes. That’s the key word “needs”.
I also have a road bike, but I haven’t used it in months. I’m surprisingly fit just by pedalling in PAS the ebike. And i’m sure others are enjoying this amazing benefit as well.

I predict that slowly regular bikes will disappear. Know a few people that already sold all their regulAr bikes and only ride ebikes.

 

[Douglas Ruby]

Yes. That’s the key word “needs”.
I also have a road bike, but I haven’t used it in months. I’m surprisingly fit just by pedalling in PAS the ebike. And i’m sure others are enjoying this amazing benefit as well.

What kind of ebike do you have?

 

[Douglas Ruby]

More data: I Just got home after a wonderful Saturday morning ride and started charging my battery. Total distance is 35.4 miles across two rides with 32% battery left. Computed stats (logged in Strava) are:

• Total usage = 68% of 691 wh = 469.9 wh.
• Total distance = 35.4 miles.
• Average speed = 19.5 mph.
• Total ascent = 1050 ft.
• Average battery consumption = 13.3 wh per mile.
• Average cadence = 80 rpm
• Average power = 225 w (according to Strava)
• Minimum Range = ~50 miles (see note)

Note: My range estimation assumes that I ride the battery down to the assist cutoff at 3%. The last 3% is used to keep the lights on. Note that Specialized also turns off TURBO mode below 20%. The highest ECO level is 70% for the remainder of your ride. Based on the built in battery management, I estimate the TURBO mode range at around 50 miles.

For me, (aside from comfort issues), this bike is ideal for the kind of riding I am doing. I favor range over speed and I am not dealing with steep ascents or a time sensitive daily commute.

 

[Douglas Ruby]

Today, I got more range and power consumption confirmation. My total ride was 22.1 miles, elevation gain of 715 ft, at an average speed of 14.8 mph. For the first 17.9 miles I rode with my daughter and used the ECO40 setting, averaging 13.9 mph. This consumed 17% of the battery, or 6.89 Wh/mile. For the last 4.2 miles, I was by myself and ran in full TURBO mode at an average of 21.1 mph, consuming 9% of the battery, or 14.8 Wh/mile.

Based on the terrain and conditions of this ride, and with my 691 Wh battery, the range at ECO40 should be around 100 miles. The range in TURBO mode would be around 46 miles.

For the entire ride, my peak speed was 32 mph, my average cadence was 72 rpm with a peak of 97 rpm, My average heart rate was 108 bpm with a peak of 134 bpm. For the lower speed segment, the avg cadence was 71 rpm with an average heart rate of 107 bpm. On the high speed segment, the avg cadence rose to 80 rpm and my average heart rate went up to 117 bpm.

So what this suggests is that while I increased my effort a bit (higher average heart rate and cadence), the battery consumption more than doubled going from 91 watts at 13.9 mph average to 187 watts at the 21.1 mph average. It also is consistent with the fact that the motor on the base Turbo is indeed a "200 watt" motor.

 

[ROJA]

Very interesting. I did the same ride three times this week, 16.1 miles and around 200 ft of climbing with at least 7 stop lights, once at Eco40, once at Eco60, and once at Eco70.

At Eco40, I used 14.6Wh/mi and averaged 19.7 mph.
At Eco60, I used 24.6Wh/mi and averaged 19.2 mph.
At Eco70, I didn't track Wh/mi and averaged 20.0 mph.

The wind must have been different between these days, so it's not exactly apples to apples, but the biggest time difference was only 2 minutes over 16 miles!

Since my battery is 691Wh and it lasts around 20-25mi on full Turbo, which is about an hour, I always figured that my motor (rated at 250W) is actually kicking out 500+ watts (using your estimated 75% efficiency).

EDIT: I don't place much value in the Strava power estimates since I'm not using a power meter, but the figures for these three rides varied from 460W to 517W. I am guessing I averaged (very roughly) around 200W of my own power (based on perceived effort as compared to some FTP tests on a Peloton bike). So *if* that is right, it means the bike added 260 - 317W from its "250W" motor, which wouldn't be that far off!