First Ebike, want a mid drive with a throttle?

F

Fishwater

Member
Hi, I’m looking for my first Ebike. I recently ordered a BBSHD to install on my Salsa fat bike from Luna but due to poor communication & then being out of stock (again no communication) I canceled my order. I rode a friends E-ranger mid drive fat bike with a throttle last year & loved it so I started thinking about building/buying one. I just sold the Salsa so I could buy a factory bike vs building one. The problem I’m having is finding a bike with a mid drive & a throttle in my budget of approximately $2500. Seems like in my budget I have to decide on a hub bike with a throttle or mid drive without. I’m a former bike guy who rode mountain bikes for years but I’m older (fatter 270lbs) & out of shape now so while I appreciate quality components I’m wrestling with the choice of a lower quality 750 hub bike with a throttle or say one of the numerous Haibike close outs available with the Yamaha mid drive.

I ride dirt bikes & want the Ebike to increase my fitness as well as a campground cruiser for the summer. I’m 6’2, 270lbs & 48 with a budget of $2500 or so. I almost said screw it & ordered a pair of Rad bikes for the wife & I but paused once I really thought about the quality of components even though I could upgrade them easily. I looked at the Juiced bikes but see how like a lot of other Ebike retailers they are currently out of stock with no ship date in sight. I looked at the M2S full suspension fatty with the Bafang max which is also out of stock as well as Biktronix Juggernaut again out of stock. Doesn’t seem reassuring to me that all these bikes are out of stock but maybe that’s just the industry? I don’t need local bike shop support since I’ve always worked on my own MTB’s & dirt bikes so I’m open to ordering online but again few if any besides FLX currently have inventory. I realize this is probably a busy time of year for the Ebike manufacturers so that’s probably why they are out of stock but I don’t want to wait until June for a proposed shipping date since my camping season is starting on Memorial Day.
 
Fishwater said:
Hi, I’m looking for my first Ebike. I recently ordered a BBSHD to install on my Salsa fat bike from Luna but due to poor communication & then being out of stock (again no communication) I canceled my order. I rode a friends E-ranger mid drive fat bike with a throttle last year & loved it so I started thinking about building/buying one. I just sold the Salsa so I could buy a factory bike vs building one. The problem I’m having is finding a bike with a mid drive & a throttle in my budget of approximately $2500. Seems like in my budget I have to decide on a hub bike with a throttle or mid drive without. I’m a former bike guy who rode mountain bikes for years but I’m older (fatter 270lbs) & out of shape now so while I appreciate quality components I’m wrestling with the choice of a lower quality 750 hub bike with a throttle or say one of the numerous Haibike close outs available with the Yamaha mid drive.

I ride dirt bikes & want the Ebike to increase my fitness as well as a campground cruiser for the summer. I’m 6’2, 270lbs & 48 with a budget of $2500 or so. I almost said screw it & ordered a pair of Rad bikes for the wife & I but paused once I really thought about the quality of components even though I could upgrade them easily. I looked at the Juiced bikes but see how like a lot of other Ebike retailers they are currently out of stock with no ship date in sight. I looked at the M2S full suspension fatty with the Bafang max which is also out of stock as well as Biktronix Juggernaut again out of stock. Doesn’t seem reassuring to me that all these bikes are out of stock but maybe that’s just the industry? I don’t need local bike shop support since I’ve always worked on my own MTB’s & dirt bikes so I’m open to ordering online but again few if any besides FLX currently have inventory. I realize this is probably a busy time of year for the Ebike manufacturers so that’s probably why they are out of stock but I don’t want to wait until June for a proposed shipping date since my camping season is starting on Memorial Day.
Click to expand...
Biktrix just rec'd their shipment and might have some Juggernaut Ultra available - the Ultra is 1000w mid motor w/throttle and torque sensor. I feel your pain and annoyance - been waiting 4 months for mine (deliveries finally supposed to start this week)
https://www.biktrix.com/collections/bikes/products/juggernaut-ultra-1000
 
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I was able to put the Juggernaut Ultra in the cart so it’s safe to say that they have some but unfortunately it’s over my targeted budget of $2.5k. Maybe I need to worry less about the throttle? It’s not a must have for me but it would be nice. The decision seems to be either a rear 750 Bafang gear drive hub motor for $1500-2000 or a mid drive. There seems to be plenty of choices with the Yamaha mid drives in my price point as well as the Bafang Max. Both those drive systems are working with 36V, not sure how important that is but it seems like 48v is common once you get away from the mid drives?
 
The Juggernaut Classic would be within your price range, but the website shows it as currently being sold out. If you contact @roshan at Biktrix, he should be able to tell you if and when they'll be available again. Otherwise, I can't think of anyone with a mid-drive fat tire bike in your price range. Several options are available under $2k if go with a geared rear hub.
 
Fishwater said:
I was able to put the Juggernaut Ultra in the cart so it’s safe to say that they have some but unfortunately it’s over my targeted budget of $2.5k. Maybe I need to worry less about the throttle? It’s not a must have for me but it would be nice. The decision seems to be either a rear 750 Bafang gear drive hub motor for $1500-2000 or a mid drive. There seems to be plenty of choices with the Yamaha mid drives in my price point as well as the Bafang Max. Both those drive systems are working with 36V, not sure how important that is but it seems like 48v is common once you get away from the mid drives?
Click to expand...

48v has more "oomph" than 36v. Throttle isn't a necessity as much as having torque sensing is imo. Less expensive bikes typically have cadence sensors that don't discern how much pedal force you are applying. So if you spin pedal lightly and slowly (like when you're cruising), it will apply same force as when you're mashing at same pedal cadence - you need to adjust power levels to modulate speed. Torque sensors are more like riding a normal bike - more pedal force translates into more speed.
.

Mid drives are really only an advantage if you climb hills or trail riding - but I found moderate hills posed a problem for the hub drives I tested.
 
I’ve been reading about hub motors vs mid drives for a few weeks & cant decide which is better for my application. I’m hoping to test ride some bikes but we only have one dealer locally with a good assortment, most are Haibike’s though.

I wanted a fat bike but also interested in a plus bike since I really enjoyed my Salsa. Most of the campgrounds I stay in are pretty hilly, my favorite campground has one massive hill that’s approximately 1 mile long, it’s gravel/dirt mixed & the worse of any campgrounds we camp at, I happen to spend a week there every year so the bike will be used regularly there. I’m not sure that it’s too much for a hub motor or not but it’s one that I’m definitely concerned with. Other than that since E-Bikes are basically illegal on the mtb trails where I live I don’t really know how much I’ll be riding in the trails, maybe a few of the local loops that don’t have a lot of people on them during the week. We also have multi use trails & class 6 roads that I ride but usually those are on my KTM. In other words I think my hardcore mtb days are behind me unless I really get inspired.
 
Have you ridden the Haibikes? With assist levels set at the upper end, just about all you have to do is move your legs. It takes minimal effort and considering you want to improve your health, it could be a good choice. We've had others posting about not shifting, or minimal shifting of the bikes. If you want the throttle so you don't have to shift so much, that's a different story.
 
I did not know mid drives had throttles. I wonder why i only see them on hub. My Specialized Como has mid drive and on the highest help setting on level ground, you're just moving your legs anyway, there's no effort.
 
I'm hoping to go ride the Haibike's today as well as the Izip E3 Peak Plus that they show in my size. Maybe I'll get lucky & they'll have something with a hub motor to try. Shifting isn't a problem for me, guess I was just stuck on the concept of a throttle just for the sake of having it? I'd much rather a real bike experience that helps with my fitness as pointed out above.
 
I had an opportunity to ride a few bikes at the shop yesterday & while I was ready to make a purchase I didn’t. The owner was awesome, I spent almost three hours there demoing bikes & while I liked them nothing unfortunately jumped out at me making me want to take it home. All the bikes I rode were 2017 models at discounted prices. Bikes I rode in no particular order.

I rode the Haibike XDURO HardSeven 6.0 with the Bosch CX for $2700 with the 500WH battery, the best spec out of all the bikes. I liked the bike but I had chainstay rub from my duck feet, light constant strikes to the chainstay as I pedaled. The chainstays are straight tube, no bends due to the plus size tires.

I rode the Izip E3 Peak Plus with the Bosch CX, a great deal at $2399 IMO, enjoyed the ride but the groupo spec was a little lower quality than the XDURO for sure, had a 400WH battery which I decided with my weight of 270lbs is not an option.

I rode the Surface Boar 350 hub motor bike which surprised me, I really liked the bike, it felt zippy & fun, definitely can feel the hub motor pushing you along. I didn’t expect to like the hubmotor so much since after being a “real mtb guy” in my younger fitter days it wasn’t as natural as the mid drive motors. Still, the bike was fun, would make an awesome campground cruiser. I just wish it was 750 Watts with a throttle for campground cruising. Fun bike no doubt.

I rode the Izip Sumo fat tire bike, great bike, great price at $2500 with a Bosch motor. Unfortunately no front suspension & a 400WH battery, also while petty I wasn’t digging the color scheme. The shop owner wanted to sell me a bike, not in an aggressive way but wanted to make me happy so he offered me the ability to upgrade to a new Bosch 500WH pack for $300 more, taking the 400 in trade essentially. I thought that was a very fair offer & considered it but decided to sleep on it for now.

I rode two Sduro FullNine bikes, both smoking deals IMO for a 29er full suspension bikes. Both had the Yamaha PW drives with 400WH batteries. Both felt super peppy & responsive but the skinny tires are a turn off for me. In fact while riding one I got a flat, possibly a pinch flat which reminded me why I don’t want skinny mtb tires anymore, too bad for me since they are killer prices. If only I could fit a boost wheel in there! Also not sure I really “need” a full suspension bike anymore even though I’ve had a few in the past.

So, the shop was great, the owner was great & I want to support the local guy but nothing is screaming at me to buy. The Bosch assisted bikes felt good, didn’t blow me away & in fact with my current horrible state of fitness didn’t feel like they had enough assist to impress me, also hitting the 20mph limit was like hitting a wall which is disappointing. The Yamaha bikes felt great BUT they were on skinny 2.25 29” tires with higher psi so they should feel faster than the mid 2.8 size tires at lower pressure. The hub bike surprised me, I enjoyed it but could definitely tell that it wasn’t a real off road trail bike, again great for the campground but not sure it will inspire me to get to the trails & improve my fitness.

In a nutshell I want a fat tire or mid plus tire bike but my budget is holding me back unless I go Chinese Rad Bikestyle bike with super low spec. I’m trying to decide what I want, more of a trail bike or campground cruiser. My budget is $2500 & I went up to $2800 mentally with some of the bikes I rode. Can I stretch a little further? Possibly but not sure I can justify $3300-3500 to get what. I really (think) I want. I’m ready to buy a bike just not sure what yet.......

The bike shop is Ebikes of New England btw, great shop, great owner & they do a big mail order business so check them out sometime!
 
I received my Classic HD Juggernaut from Biktrix about two weeks ago with a 750-1000 watt mid drive, 48 /19.2 battery, hydraulic brakes, fenders, rear bike rack and a light.. This bike is fantastic. I paid just over $3,000. I think it is is a great value. You should contact Roshan at Biktrix. From my perspective, it has been a pleasure dealing with Roshan.
 
Fishwater said:
I had an opportunity to ride a few bikes at the shop yesterday & while I was ready to make a purchase I didn’t. The owner was awesome, I spent almost three hours there demoing bikes & while I liked them nothing unfortunately jumped out at me making me want to take it home. All the bikes I rode were 2017 models at discounted prices. Bikes I rode in no particular order.

I rode the Haibike XDURO HardSeven 6.0 with the Bosch CX for $2700 with the 500WH battery, the best spec out of all the bikes. I liked the bike but I had chainstay rub from my duck feet, light constant strikes to the chainstay as I pedaled. The chainstays are straight tube, no bends due to the plus size tires.

I rode the Izip E3 Peak Plus with the Bosch CX, a great deal at $2399 IMO, enjoyed the ride but the groupo spec was a little lower quality than the XDURO for sure, had a 400WH battery which I decided with my weight of 270lbs is not an option.

I rode the Surface Boar 350 hub motor bike which surprised me, I really liked the bike, it felt zippy & fun, definitely can feel the hub motor pushing you along. I didn’t expect to like the hubmotor so much since after being a “real mtb guy” in my younger fitter days it wasn’t as natural as the mid drive motors. Still, the bike was fun, would make an awesome campground cruiser. I just wish it was 750 Watts with a throttle for campground cruising. Fun bike no doubt.

I rode the Izip Sumo fat tire bike, great bike, great price at $2500 with a Bosch motor. Unfortunately no front suspension & a 400WH battery, also while petty I wasn’t digging the color scheme. The shop owner wanted to sell me a bike, not in an aggressive way but wanted to make me happy so he offered me the ability to upgrade to a new Bosch 500WH pack for $300 more, taking the 400 in trade essentially. I thought that was a very fair offer & considered it but decided to sleep on it for now.

I rode two Sduro FullNine bikes, both smoking deals IMO for a 29er full suspension bikes. Both had the Yamaha PW drives with 400WH batteries. Both felt super peppy & responsive but the skinny tires are a turn off for me. In fact while riding one I got a flat, possibly a pinch flat which reminded me why I don’t want skinny mtb tires anymore, too bad for me since they are killer prices. If only I could fit a boost wheel in there! Also not sure I really “need” a full suspension bike anymore even though I’ve had a few in the past.

So, the shop was great, the owner was great & I want to support the local guy but nothing is screaming at me to buy. The Bosch assisted bikes felt good, didn’t blow me away & in fact with my current horrible state of fitness didn’t feel like they had enough assist to impress me, also hitting the 20mph limit was like hitting a wall which is disappointing. The Yamaha bikes felt great BUT they were on skinny 2.25 29” tires with higher psi so they should feel faster than the mid 2.8 size tires at lower pressure. The hub bike surprised me, I enjoyed it but could definitely tell that it wasn’t a real off road trail bike, again great for the campground but not sure it will inspire me to get to the trails & improve my fitness.

In a nutshell I want a fat tire or mid plus tire bike but my budget is holding me back unless I go Chinese Rad Bikestyle bike with super low spec. I’m trying to decide what I want, more of a trail bike or campground cruiser. My budget is $2500 & I went up to $2800 mentally with some of the bikes I rode. Can I stretch a little further? Possibly but not sure I can justify $3300-3500 to get what. I really (think) I want. I’m ready to buy a bike just not sure what yet.......

The bike shop is Ebikes of New England btw, great shop, great owner & they do a big mail order business so check them out sometime!
Click to expand...

Have you checked out Luna Cycle? They sell nice mtn bikes (from Giant etc) that they convert to electric with 48v/52v motors. Have a kit look since they add motors and you see external cables, but can get very capable bikes at affordable prices https://lunacycle.com/mountain/
 
Yep, unfortunately I wasn't pleased with the service so I started my search elsewhere. Not knocking Luna, just not my preference.
 
Earlier in the thread @Kurt in CT mentioned Magnum's Navigator, which sounds like an awesome bike if they can hold the price point at $2500 as mentioned in the video. You should also look at the Magnum Peak even though it's a geared rear hub. I was going to pull the trigger on this one until the LBS recommended by Magnum bikes put on his used car salesman hat and kept changing the price on a bike he didn't even have in stock. When I brought this up to Magnum Bikes they were very apologetic and offered to make things right, which I greatly appreciated. However, I didn't want to have to deal with this LBS down the road in case I needed post-sale warranty service.
 
PCDoctorUSA said:
Earlier in the thread @Kurt in CT mentioned Magnum's Navigator, which sounds like an awesome bike if they can hold the price point at $2500 as mentioned in the video. You should also look at the Magnum Peak even though it's a geared rear hub. I was going to pull the trigger on this one until the LBS recommended by Magnum bikes put on his used car salesman hat and kept changing the price on a bike he didn't even have in stock. When I brought this up to Magnum Bikes they were very apologetic and offered to make things right, which I greatly appreciated. However, I didn't want to have to deal with this LBS down the road in case I needed post-sale warranty service.
Click to expand...

The bike shop I was at had two models of the Magnum & briefly looking at it (without riding it) it looked like lesser quality components sitting next to the fancy Haibikes, not saying that is but it looked a notch or two below what I was looking at. When I go back to the shop I may look a little deeper so thanks for the recommendation. I almost went back today & uped my budget to ride & possibly buy one of the AllMtn 6.5 plus bikes at $3100 but got tied up at work. I’m headed away for the weekend tomorrow so I won’t have time to get back to the shop until next week, maybe something will pop up online that I as looking at or I’ll convince myself to buy one from the shop in the meantime. Hoping my mind clears & I get a clear vision of what I want out of a bike this weekend over a few adult beverages!
 
Fishwater said:
The bike shop I was at had two models of the Magnum & briefly looking at it (without riding it) it looked like lesser quality components sitting next to the fancy Haibikes, not saying that is but it looked a notch or two below what I was looking at. When I go back to the shop I may look a little deeper so thanks for the recommendation. I almost went back today & uped my budget to ride & possibly buy one of the AllMtn 6.5 plus bikes at $3100 but got tied up at work. I’m headed away for the weekend tomorrow so I won’t have time to get back to the shop until next week, maybe something will pop up online that I as looking at or I’ll convince myself to buy one from the shop in the meantime. Hoping my mind clears & I get a clear vision of what I want out of a bike this weekend over a few adult beverages!
Click to expand...
Before heading back to the LBS, review Haibike's warranty:

"When you bought your Haibike you entered into a legal contract with your dealer. If warranty and liability claims as well as any other service questions arise, that dealer is your sole point of contact. However, if you should chose to make a claim for your Haibike with a dealer other than the original seller, additional costs may incur. We do, however, not cover these costs. We therefore strongly urge you to settle any issues with the seller of your Haibike."

If you decide on a Haibike and the LBS selling it to you is convenient to your location for service issues and you have no plans on relocating in the very near future then no worries. I definitely wouldn't buy a Haibike online because of their rigid warranty terms. Magnum Bikes also mentions the Seller in their wording for warranty work, but does not "warn" you from using another Authorized Dealer. Just my 2-cents.
 
Fortunately they are convenient for me but I was not aware of their stance on warranty work. Interesting warranty statement, thanks for the perspective.
 
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