First e-bike for commuting with steep roads

[palacemusic]

Hello,

I'm new here and I'm looking for an e-bike for my commuting. Before covid I used to ride my "normal" bike (i.e. not an electric one) for my commuting. I live in a upper neighborhood in North Vancouver (Canada), the way down in the morning was never an issue But in the evening, at the end of my work day, the way up to home was quite a challenge and I used to do only the half-way on my bike, and then put my bike on a bus for the last part after the bridge. You can see my route in the below screenshot, and you can see that the last 5 km are quite steep - some parts have a 8-9% grade. I worked from home for the last 2 years but I will have to go back to the office soon, and since I didn't do much sport recently, and I would like to avoid the bus, I'm looking to buy an electric bike so I can do all my trip on my bike.

I tried lot of different models, and I read lot of posts on this forum and watched lot of reviews, but I'm still struggling to decide about the one I want to buy.

First, the best model I had the chance to try so far: Gazelle Medeo T10 HMB (Bosch motor - 500Wh - Torque 65Nm - $4300 CAD)
(actually I tried some better models but they were all +$4500 CAD that is way too expensive for me)

I was able to test it around my home and I know that it can manage the steep roads without any issue. The motorization is really powerful and the acceleration is smooth, that's a great one to ride and it fits well my size. The main issue with this bike is its price. I could buy it if that's the only choice but I'm wondering if I could find another more affordable bike. The issue is that all the other models I tried with less powerful motors (50Nm or less) gave me the feeling to really struggle as soon as I was on a steep road.

Secondly, one bike that is still a bit of mystery to me is the RadCity 5 Plus (Rad motor - 500Wh - Torque 58Nm - $2300 CAD). It is much cheaper, the motorization is totally different and honestly I feel it's less comfortable (I have the feeling to be pushed like on a motorcycle), but overall that seems to be a really good and well equiped bike for the price. I had the occasion to test it on flat roads only, and it was a nice ride, but I'm struggling to find any information about how it will manage my specific road with steep parts. If I can be sure that it will be fine on the long run, I would go for it mainly because of the saved money compared to the Gazelle. Did anyone already have the chance to test it on really steep roads?

Do you think of any other e-bike that would be a good deal in the range $2000-$4000 CAD and that could handle steep roads? Ideally I would like to be able to test it before to buy it. Thanks a lot for your help.

Cheers

 

[JRA]

These folks have been eBiking around all parts of Van for years and would be worth a visit to see what they might suggest? www.ebikes.ca

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Hi, @palacemusic!

The rated motor torque figures mean a little. The principal difference between a mid-drive motor (Gazelle) and a hub-drive motor (RadCity) is the power distribution. The mid-drive motor contributes to your own pedalling through the drive-train, making climbing far easier than it is with a hub-drive motor that is just "pushing" you with constant power per an assistance level. Moreover, prolonged climbing might fry a hub-drive motor (although I think there are only short climbs on your commute).

Mid-drive motor e-bikes are far more expensive than hub-drive ones. Yet the gain is not only better climbing capability of a mid-drive motor but also far more natural ride (you feel like a Superman instead of being pushed by the motor).

Important factor is the expensive mid-drive motor e-bikes typically come with a good warranty and post-sales service: It is essential unless you want to become your own mechanic. I do understand the Gazelle is available from an LBS that carries the brand?

And no, an e-bike that is half of the price of a better e-bike won't be really good

 

[PedalUma]

Welcome @palacemusic!
I picked up this bike this week and will make it an 85Nm, 350W torque sensor mid-drive. In your area they want about $1200 CAN for similar European Crème bikes, handmade in Poland. https://velolifestyle.com/dutch-city-bikes. I purchased it on San Francisco Craigslist for $325 US. They are not imported to the US. You do not need to spend a lot of money to ride a nicer bike than those sold in stores. Next is a white bike I purchased for $549 two weeks ago and made electric. The Crème will end up looking similar to the Union Jack third bike. A bit of creativity and initiative will go a long way. If I can do it so can you. Have fun with a little project that is all yours and your will have a superior climber that does not look clunky. That water bottle looking thing is a battery on the second and third bikes.

 

[indianajo]

243 m rise in 71 minutes is below the geared hub drive limit of 1000' in an hour. You don't have to buy a bosch mid drive if you want to save $1000-2000. OTOH gazelle quality is superb, and Rad saves cost on parts people don't pay attention to. See the rad "known problems" thread, and others. The latest Rad cost cutter is burrs on the spoke nipples that poke holes in tubes. That probably saves them $.01 on each bike. They have previously had spokes that stretched and rims that warped. The Rad city plus is this year a 750 w geared hub motor - the right one for the task for gross weights up to 130 kg. Canada models may have less wattage. I've taken 160 lb me, 80 lb ag supplies +94 lb bike+racks+bags+stand+tools+parts+water up 15% grades 33m long with my 1000w geared hub motor.
What size & weight are you?
Blix Aveny has only one posted known problem today on brand review. There is a sol model too. When it comes times to replace the battery (~1000 charges) that dolphin battery will cost about half what a bosch patented battery will cost. https://electricbikereview.com/?s=blix+aveny
I wore out the plastic gears in one hub motor @ ~4500 miles, but new ones are $23 to $300 and are quicker to change out than a chain- for me anyway. As long as plug is compatible. I spent 2 afternoons installing my spare motor because the motor I had in the garage had different controller mount, shorter harness, different plugs and different torque arm angle (flats). I'm buying 500 w used bafang geared hub motors for $23 from batteryclearancewarehouse.com but they have the 9 pin juli connector and require a $14 converter harness to rectangular white hall effect connector. A worn out geared hub motor can be pedaled home without drag and without a tow truck.
Cannondale has short known problems list. They appear to have one hub motor bike in a line of bosch mid drives, the treadwell. EBR is not pulling up that review but the price was right, $2750 US. I think it said carbon fiber, which may not hold up to heavy use.
Canyon has 4 known problems today and a geared hub motor smartmotion catalyst with both cadence sense & torque sensing for better feel.Has a front suspension. https://electricbikereview.com/smartmotion/catalyst/
Happy shopping & later riding.

 

[dmark]

Get a Bafang mid drive BBSHD or Ultra motor from Rize (Rize RX $3700 Cdn or Rize RX Pro $3800 Cdn) or Biktrix (Juggernaut starting at $3400 Cdn) (Both are Canadian companies), and you will have superior hill climbing power.

 

[PedalUma]

Get a Bafang mid drive BBSHD or Ultra motor from Rize (Rize RX $3700 Cdn or Rize RX Pro $3800 Cdn) or Biktrix (Juggernaut starting at $3400 Cdn) (Both are Canadian companies), and you will have superior hill climbing power.

Over 90Nm creates drivetrain problems. It sounds cool to people who do not know better. Eating a drivetrain every three weeks is not as fun as it sounds in theory.

 

[dmark]

Over 90Nm creates drivetrain problems. It sounds cool to people who do not know better. Eating a drivetrain every three weeks is not as fun as it sounds in theory.

I have owned a Biktrix Juggernaut Ultra for about three years. The only time I broke a chain was when I wheelied on some stairs and hung the bike up on the handrail, so zero drivetrains eaten from regular use.

Also, the power can be limited. I got my Juggernaut Ultra in Canadian street legal configuration, so it is limited to half power pedaling (max speed 32 kph) but still has full power with throttle (max speed can be limited by user interface, limted to 50 kph by Biktrix, but capable of a bit faster).

 

[palacemusic]

These folks have been eBiking around all parts of Van for years and would be worth a visit to see what they might suggest? www.ebikes.ca

Thanks for the tip, I will try to go there in the next couple of weeks. I see they are manufacturing electrification systems though, and even if I thought about that at the beginning (I ride a BMC bike that I like a lot), then I was afraid about the insurance issues in case I have (or I cause) an accident, so I stopped to consider this option.

 

[palacemusic]

Hi, @palacemusic!

The rated motor torque figures mean a little. The principal difference between a mid-drive motor (Gazelle) and a hub-drive motor (RadCity) is the power distribution. The mid-drive motor contributes to your own pedalling through the drive-train, making climbing far easier than it is with a hub-drive motor that is just "pushing" you with constant power per an assistance level. Moreover, prolonged climbing might fry a hub-drive motor (although I think there are only short climbs on your commute).

Mid-drive motor e-bikes are far more expensive than hub-drive ones. Yet the gain is not only better climbing capability of a mid-drive motor but also far more natural ride (you feel like a Superman instead of being pushed by the motor).

Important factor is the expensive mid-drive motor e-bikes typically come with a good warranty and post-sales service: It is essential unless you want to become your own mechanic. I do understand the Gazelle is available from an LBS that carries the brand?

And no, an e-bike that is half of the price of a better e-bike won't be really good

Hi Stefan - thanks for your advice. Yes I totally understand that, more generally speaking, the more we pay the more we get
And indeed, among all the e-bikes I tested, I really liked a lot more all the mid-drive motor e-bikes, I really felt it was much more natural to ride. About the power I would need, I tried the Gazelle T9 with 50Nm of torque (that is $500 cheaper, but also well equiped and good quality) and I felt it was a bit short for my roads and my condition. And yes, I have a LBS in my area that sell Gazelle bikes, as well as Cube, Trek, Scott, Specialized, Moustache, Orbea, OHM, Rad. I think I tried at least 1 or 2 bikes of each brand... Just wondering if I may have missed maybe a good e-bike a bit cheaper that could be a good fit for me. But so far the Gazelle T10 is still number one for me.

 

[palacemusic]

243 m rise in 71 minutes is below the geared hub drive limit of 1000' in an hour. You don't have to buy a bosch mid drive if you want to save $1000-2000. OTOH gazelle quality is superb, and Rad saves cost on parts people don't pay attention to. See the rad "known problems" thread, and others. The latest Rad cost cutter is burrs on the spoke nipples that poke holes in tubes. That probably saves them $.01 on each bike. They have previously had spokes that stretched and rims that warped. The Rad city plus is this year a 750 w geared hub motor - the right one for the task for gross weights up to 130 kg. Canada models may have less wattage. I've taken 160 lb me, 80 lb ag supplies +94 lb bike+racks+bags+stand+tools+parts+water up 15% grades 33m long with my 1000w geared hub motor.
What size & weight are you?
Blix Aveny has only one posted known problem today on brand review. There is a sol model too. When it comes times to replace the battery (~1000 charges) that dolphin battery will cost about half what a bosch patented battery will cost. https://electricbikereview.com/?s=blix+aveny
I wore out the plastic gears in one hub motor @ ~4500 miles, but new ones are $23 to $300 and are quicker to change out than a chain- for me anyway. As long as plug is compatible. I spent 2 afternoons installing my spare motor because the motor I had in the garage had different controller mount, shorter harness, different plugs and different torque arm angle (flats). I'm buying 500 w used bafang geared hub motors for $23 from batteryclearancewarehouse.com but they have the 9 pin juli connector and require a $14 converter harness to rectangular white hall effect connector. A worn out geared hub motor can be pedaled home without drag and without a tow truck.
Cannondale has short known problems list. They appear to have one hub motor bike in a line of bosch mid drives, the treadwell. EBR is not pulling up that review but the price was right, $2750 US. I think it said carbon fiber, which may not hold up to heavy use.
Canyon has 4 known problems today and a geared hub motor smartmotion catalyst with both cadence sense & torque sensing for better feel.Has a front suspension. https://electricbikereview.com/smartmotion/catalyst/
Happy shopping & later riding.

Hi Indianajo - thanks for your feedback.
I'm 1.93m and 85kg, so I know the Rad may be a bit short for me but when I tried it it was okay. About the duration of my ride, it will be under 71min as I'm a bit faster than what Google Maps is saying. Even with my regular bike, I did all my trip in 55~60min, so I expect to to be around 45~50min with an e-bike. In this case I'll be very close to the geared hub drive limit of 1000' per hour. I will have a look at the other options you pointed, but seems most of them are online options only and I would really like to try to bike before to buy it.

 

[palacemusic]

Get a Bafang mid drive BBSHD or Ultra motor from Rize (Rize RX $3700 Cdn or Rize RX Pro $3800 Cdn) or Biktrix (Juggernaut starting at $3400 Cdn) (Both are Canadian companies), and you will have superior hill climbing power.

Hi Dmark and thanks for your feedback - I see the Rize MD has a great motorization as well and is even cheaper ($2900) - I guess that the overall quality is not as good as the Gazelle of course, but that's worth a shot. I see they have a showroom in Richmond and we can try the bikes, even if it's far from my home and my hills, I will try to find some time to have a test ride.

 

[palacemusic]

Welcome @palacemusic!
I picked up this bike this week and will make it an 85Nm, 350W torque sensor mid-drive. In your area they want about $1200 CAN for similar European Crème bikes, handmade in Poland. https://velolifestyle.com/dutch-city-bikes. I purchased it on San Francisco Craigslist for $325 US. They are not imported to the US. You do not need to spend a lot of money to ride a nicer bike than those sold in stores. Next is a white bike I purchased for $549 two weeks ago and made electric. The Crème will end up looking similar to the Union Jack third bike. A bit of creativity and initiative will go a long way. If I can do it so can you. Have fun with a little project that is all yours and your will have a superior climber that does not look clunky. That water bottle looking thing is a battery on the second and third bikes.

Hi PedalUma - thanks for your feedback and congrats for those beauties, but I don't feel I have the knowledge to do what you do. Also I'm a bit afraid about the insurance issues I could have in case I have (or I cause) an accident with a such bike. Ideally I would like to buy a e-bike for a local bike shop, and would like to be able to test it before.

 

[JRA]

Thanks for the tip, I will try to go there in the next couple of weeks. I see they are manufacturing electrification systems though, and even if I thought about that at the beginning (I ride a BMC bike that I like a lot), then I was afraid about the insurance issues in case I have (or I cause) an accident, so I stopped to consider this option.

If for nothing other than the potential e education and the fact that you are close to them I feel it will be worth your time. I have visited there several times and always came away with more knowledge than when I went in.

 

[dmark]

Hi Dmark and thanks for your feedback - I see the Rize MD has a great motorization as well and is even cheaper ($2900) - I guess that the overall quality is not as good as the Gazelle of course, but that's worth a shot. I see they have a showroom in Richmond and we can try the bikes, even if it's far from my home and my hills, I will try to find some time to have a test ride.

I think Biktrix has a showroom in Vancouver: https://www.biktrix.com/pages/contact
2865 W Broadway, Vancouver, BC V6K 2G6
(778) 915-8749
Hours
Monday & Tuesday: CLOSED
Wednesday: 11am - 6pm
Thursday: 11am - 6pm
Friday: 11am - 6pm
Saturday: 11am - 6pm
Sunday: 11am - 6pm

Biktrix generally has slightly better components than Rize, while still being in your budget. Also, I recommend you pay a little extra to get the biggest battery available. A dual battery setup will last your trip there-and-back no problem, or you could pack a charger to re-charge at your destination. Ranges posted on websites assume optimal conditions, and hills will consume battery life much quicker.

 

[Bikeknit]

My experience is limited but since you live in Vancouver, you might look into a Kona Dew-e. I have the dl model which is as expensive as the Gazelle Medeo you are looking at. But the non-dl model is quite a bit cheaper. Kona's can take awhile to get your hands on but since they started in Vancouver, I have the impression they might be a little easier to get a hold of in your area.

 

[Pine_marten]

Get a top quality high amp hour battery and smart charger. I've got a BBS02 48V and a high spec 20ah battery and i can tell it was a good choice. Those high torque motors will wear on your drive train.

 

[rich c]

Just curious what Covid has to do with riding a traditional bicycle for the commute and now you need an eBike? Do you have diminished lung capacity?

 

[Alaskan]

You are not shopping for a toy but rather a reliable form of transportation that will get you to work and back. It needs do so with minimal failure or problems. When they do occur, you need good local service and parts availability so you are not without your wheels for an extended period.

As such, my recommendation is get a bike from a local shop, with a good reputation for service and as close to the top of your budget as you can. This is not a situation to go cheap. Get the best your budget will allow. It won't be without problems but will be likely to have fewer of them and with a local shop having your back, you will have fewer down days.

From what I know, the Gazelle Medio T10 is a solid choice as are most others with Bosch motors. Trek Allant is another good urban commuter. Moustache has several bikes that would be a good choice as well.

I suggest allocate an afternoon to visit Citi-Cylces North Van store and test ride everything you can that is within your budget.
103-1346 Marine Dr. North Vancouver, BC

Your goal should be to find the best bike you can at the top of your budget, not save a few buck and ride to regret going cheap every day you ride. The satisfaction you will get from riding a better bike every day will long outlive the momentary pain of spending a few more dollars.

 

[fooferdoggie]

You are not shopping for a toy but rather a reliable form of transportation that will get you to work and back. It needs do so with minimal failure or problems. When they do occur, you need good local service and parts availability so you are not without your wheels for an extended period.

As such, my recommendation is get a bike from a local shop, with a good reputation for service and as close to the top of your budget as you can. This is not a situation to go cheap. Get the best your budget will allow. It won't be without problems but will be likely to have fewer of them and with a local shop having your back, you will have fewer down days.

From what I know, the Gazelle Medio T10 is a solid choice as are most others with Bosch motors. Trek Allant is another good urban commuter. Moustache has several bikes that would be a good choice as well.

I suggest allocate an afternoon to visit Citi-Cylces North Van store and test ride everything you can that is within your budget.
103-1346 Marine Dr. North Vancouver, BC

Your goal should be to find the best bike you can at the top of your budget, not save a few buck and ride to regret going cheap every day you ride. The satisfaction you will get from riding a better bike every day will long outlive the momentary pain of spending a few more dollars.

good advice. the bosch motor can handle that grade with no problem at all.