Experience Thread: A noobie getting into a specialized vado 5.0 IGH

Great ride today! High 50’s and sunny is just warm enough to ditch jackets! First ride with the kinekt (will get to that). And the first one using RWGPS + MC + HRM. Rungap is fantastic. I now have my data in garmin connect and strava. With rungap, if I get a forerunner, I will likely use garmin as the source and have rungap sync data everywhere else.

Because of the HRM strap, I don’t get recovery heart rate data because I take the strap off immediately and end the ride. Another interesting thing is RWGPS only gets its own data. I would have to tell it to discard the ride data and then add it to the sync list from rungap (currently coming from MC). That would work if I want matching data in RWGPS (not sure I care).

Garmin did collect battery info. This does exist in ride. And ride also tracks microtune in a useful way. I ended with 60% battery left and that was because I spent 43% of the 14.2 mile ride at 100% microtune pushing the motor power to its limit. Pegging motor power at 729w for periods of time is not good for battery. In other news, I set all kinds of rider power records. (And I think the seat post contributed to that).

I deliberately chose the end of the rough ride to miss the typical mad sprinting up to my house at the end. Instead I came down from the north which means the last 5-10 minutes of the ride is relaxing instead of crazy. I love this difference. Especially in this weather where the cold breeze takes care of sweat.

Ok, on to the kinekt. It’s……. Glorious! Spectacular! Amazing! Ok, but why? So, I swapped springs based on e-bike weight guidance. It said use red and purple, but none of the springs were marked as red. I just assumed it was the unmarked one since I did have yellow black and purple (I think those are the colors). I did have to watch a video as I didn’t know what they meant by removing the link plate. It was easy to do. Just not super clear instructions. It took me a bit to get the saddle back into place. And, I think it is further back (more on this in a minute). I set it to just above 1 on softness (recommended by kinekt). And then I picked the toughest route I could think of by combining the roughest dirt back roads I have experienced into a single route.

And it was like a fluffy cloud. Obviously, giant potholes are felt significantly, but these are the ones I dodge anyway. The float was a bit soft on subtle ground changes. A bit too cloudy. I plan to tighten that up some.

But here is the big surprise: very little handnumbness. There was a subtle tingle, but not anything I need to deal with. And the way I was sitting on the seat felt very relaxed. No two lumps feeling, no sliding, very few adjustments on ride. I found myself much more able and comfortable to “sit back”. And it was pretty natural to do so. It also felt pretty powerful as a riding position.

I did have a thudbuster on the current. But, the current never made it to this kind of backroad riding. So I can’t compare it directly. I will say, the thudbuster didn’t feel very “active”. The kinekt feels very active. I am very much aware that it is smoothing out the road. This is not a bad thing at all. You can feel the seat respond. The thing is my body immediately trusted it. And I think that took weight off my hands.

I was also really hitting the hills hard. I pushed myself harder on this ride than any previous one. But it also felt comfortable and smooth.

I did not check tire pressure before the ride and it is possible I am low contributing to the softness. Just ran down to check, it was 31 psi. Pumped it up to 40 and will see what that does tomorrow.

The kinekt is completely worth it to me. It’s crazy good compared to the suspension seat post included on the vado.

Sql lab is next. Won’t arrive for a bit.
 
I'm so glad you've appreciated Kinekt! Both Kinekt and ShockStop are just excellent on my e-bikes; I have forgotten of any issues at that side for a long time since I have using these seat-posts. Some people riding behind me told me they could see how actively those posts appeared to work! So better the Kinekt helped you reduce your hand numbness!

729 W Peak Power? That's the electrical power. I would assume the efficiency of your motor as 77.5% meaning you got the actual maximum mechanical power of your motor of 565 W. It is indeed a lot of oomph!

In other news, I set all kinds of rider power records. (And I think the seat post contributed to that).
My observation is using max assistance also makes the rider pedal very hard to ride even faster! Congratulations!

It also looks that you have got the software solution you wanted. A question that is really bogging my mind is: Do you have the maps of your region actually installed on your Garmin Edge? I'm sorry for asking such a silly question but... Garmin Ltd is an American company. They are the world leader in sports devices! If the smallest rideable forest path is mapped in Poland, it is hardly possible you do not have principal bike trails for your region on your device! I apologise for appearing silly but once I deleted all the maps from my Wahoo (and set the process of uploading only the maps I really needed but I was not aware it hadn't completed). I was navigating according to an uploaded RWGPS route only the own navigation of the Wahoo didn't work!
 
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729 W Peak Power? That's the electrical power. I would assume the efficiency of your motor as 77.5% meaning you got the actual maximum mechanical power of your motor of 565 W. It is indeed a lot of oomph!
I would assume so, but the number the display shows on MC is 729 for “motor power”. And it is what is in the graphs. But it’s more relevant for what I want anyway, because it is what is being consumed.
My observation is using max assistance also makes the rider pedal very hard to ride even faster!
I concur. Though I am trying to reduce assistance to extend battery life once I know the route well and can pace myself.

Do you have the maps of your region actually installed on your Garmin Edge?
Yep, it took a couple hours to fully update the maps. Garmin just isn’t on top of this. To be clear, garmin connect route planning doesn’t know about them either. And that one is their map service.

I will say that this trail is constantly being worked on and extended. Every year new pieces are opened or improved. So maybe garmin just doesn’t keep up fast enough. Openstreetmaps is crowd sourced so lots of locals can help update.

To be fair: apple maps cycling doesn’t know about it either. Karoo dashboard does, but won’t route using it (I have a question in about that to them. Karoo support is fantastic). Haven’t tried to figure out if wahoo can do it. (I can’t try the app without a device so far).

I think routing will likely stay on the phone.
 
I would assume so, but the number the display shows on MC is 729 for “motor power”. And it is what is in the graphs. But it’s more relevant for what I want anyway, because it is what is being consumed.
The system cannot determine the mechanical power of the motor, so it is using the measured voltage and current. The electrical power. Of course that affects the charge consumed from the battery.
Yep, it took a couple hours to fully update the maps. Garmin just isn’t on top of this.
Wahoo is not either :D

So maybe garmin just doesn’t keep up fast enough. Openstreetmaps is crowd sourced so lots of locals can help update.
Not sure what Garmin is based on but Wahoo map updates are pretty frequent, so the same must be with Garmin. Unlike Bosch Nyon Maps that are not updated and do not work well in the U.S. (didn't you want a Bosch e-bike?) :D
 
Unlike Bosch Nyon Maps that are not updated and do not work well in the U.S. (didn't you want a Bosch e-bike?) :D
*snickers* yeah. Not really though. Or I would have returned this one. The bike itself is fantastic. So far, mine is working great. And I am likely harder on it from these dirt back roads and trails compared to others.

I just wish the rest of technology around cycling wasn’t straight up out of the 90’s. ;)
 
I just wish the rest of technology around cycling wasn’t straight up out of the 90’s. ;)

The digital single lens reflex cameras had been mimicking the 1970/80s ones for 20 years until the mirrorless cameras came. Still, many things in the latest cameras are still based on the old technology.
So you say thru-axles, hydraulic disk brakes or 11/12 speed 1x11 drivetrains were available in 1990s? Gravel bikes? Di2 shifting? GPS bike computers? Didn't know.
 
The digital single lens reflex cameras had been mimicking the 1970/80s ones for 20 years until the mirrorless cameras came. Still, many things in the latest cameras are still based on the old technology.
So you say thru-axles, hydraulic disk brakes or 11/12 speed 1x11 drivetrains were available in 1990s? Gravel bikes? Di2 shifting? GPS bike computers? Didn't know.
Not talking about the bike itself. Only connectivity. But what you said is a good parallel. These bikes are all clinging to the ages of DSLR (in terms of connectivity) and not adopting Mirrorless. Is a DSLR camera still good? Yes, yes it is (I own DSLR, not mirrorless so far, well, not for the real cameras). But mirrorless have a ton of advantages which is why DSLR is dying. Mirrorless doesn’t do *everything* better than DSLR, but it provides enough that people started adopting it. I have been renting mirrorless cameras to try them out. Eventually going to upgrade.

Right now, there is no mirrorless equivalent in the bike world. Everyone is still stuck/obsessed with DSLR.
 
Belt drive/IGH is the bike "mirrorless".
The Specialized connectivity is excellent for me. Sorry you do not appreciate it...
 
Belt drive/IGH is the bike "mirrorless".
The Specialized connectivity is excellent for me. Sorry you do not appreciate it...
Same way DSLR is excellent but the number of companies supporting it is dwindling. Ant+ works very well. But it’s kind of like having a top level DSLR camera when a large portion of DSLR lenses are discontinued. You can still buy a great DSLR today, but I wouldn’t recommend it given Virtually all new lens development is in mirrorless.

Again, ant+ is in fewer and fewer devices each year. The weird thing in the fitness world is this is happening without a clear equal/better replacement. Mirrorless literally caused this to dslr. But ant+ was simply dropped from general purpose devices. It remains a niche fitness solution that is not supported in general devices.

Again, it doesn’t make it bad. Lots of great technology gets killed by market pressure. (Ohhhh, the days of BeOS! Or even OS/2). But that is where we are. Once bike consumers start demanding smartphone bike computers more generally, one of two things will happen: 1) ant+ dies and BT or another standard takes its place. 2) ant+ makes a come back.

I would not bet on 2 given the current state of the market. In fact, I wouldn’t bet on that choice at all.

With only two companies supporting ant+ in bikes (sound familiar to DSLR?), the doedoe bird awaits.

Would love for ant+ to be better adopted. It just isn’t currently.

Garmin’s map issues are similar. A brand new gps navigating device is hampered by their out of date, onboard proprietary maps. That’s pretty 90’s. (Though, in the 90’s, that was the best option)
 
What you say may hold true in case a BT standard clearly defining profiles required for so many sports activities is defined and embraced by the industry. It is not the fact now but about 200 sport device companies support ANT+.
For one, would you believe BT could handle things such as in what gear an electronic shifter is? Or, what the pressure in your tyres is? (It is supported by ANT+, too! See the list of fields in your Garmin Edge!) It requires a sports company to introduce such standards, and currently Garmin is the biggest.

I am not sure about the maps. Mine are current on Wahoo.
 
What you say may hold true in case a BT standard clearly defining profiles required for so many sports activities is defined and embraced by the industry. It is not the fact now but about 200 sport device companies support ANT+.
For one, would you believe BT could handle things such as in what gear an electronic shifter is? Or, what the pressure in your tyres is? (It is supported by ANT+, too! See the list of fields in your Garmin Edge!) It requires a sports company to introduce such standards, and currently Garmin is the biggest.

I am not sure about the maps. Mine are current on Wahoo.
As far as I can tell, the only thing missing to do all this through BT is software. And even that is "on the way" with many cadence/power/heart sensors supporting both protocols. The software issues could change very quickly if someone has the will to do it. But, yes, sport companies would have to have the motivation to support it. I also think "bridging" ant+ and BT is probably the best way to go (particularly for bikes). Ant+ is a *good* technology for this purpose.

A smart watch with ant+ would be amazing. I don't really want any of this stuff in front of me. Just silently gather the data and show it to me later. The one thing I want to see on ride is elevation mostly so I know how much hard stuff is left. Occasionally I like to see the nav map simply as a visual reminder of my route. As I get more familiar with the roads, and become comfortable going out on "unplanned" routes that still get me home on time, I could see myself ditching navigation entirely.

Post on this morning's ride coming soon. I do have complaints about using smartphones you know.
 
This morning ride was a bit frustrating. First, it's cold. It was 28 this morning. I think it rose to 32 before I actually started riding. It was 36 when I stopped. Second, due to the winterized gear, I totally messed up my "get ready" routine multiple times. I leave the HRM out by the bike. The problem with that is I walk out already dressed. The other day I forgot the HRM and turned around ( not even down the street ) because I kept it inside. Need to find a routine that works. I kept having to take off and put on the gloves as I forgot to setup the phone, unlock/start stuff... etc.

It was cold enough that I wish I had somewhat better face protection. The wind was a bit chilly. I used my rain coat as it is wind proof and still left the vents open. This was great from a sweat perspective. A bit cool, but I only had one layer underneath. The legs were also a bit chilly but mostly from wind chill. I have rain/wind pants coming in which I intend to layer underneath for warmth. I also have some glasses coming in.

I had to stop and adjust technology a bunch of times on this ride. Thankfully, I chose my standard loop. But RWGPS completely freaked out and wouldn't navigate. I simply turned it off rather than routing from where I was (I didn't realize until after the first couple of miles at the first real turn because I kept MC on the screen). That brings us to gloves and iPhones. Basically, if RWGPS were working, I would have to choose between seeing that or the MC stats. Now, the MC stats are interesting to some extent. Seeing myself reach instantaneous rider power of over 600 is fun (thats another question, I see that on the devices, but max power is always a bit less, like 576. I assume there is some time averaging even if it's just 1 or 2 seconds). I can see all this stuff on different screens on the vado display. So the phone could be dedicated to RWGPS.

The thing is, on-ride I am caring less and less about this stuff. Seeing cadence, speed and rider power is really the informative metrics. None of the rest of it matters much on bike. In fact, I am considering moving back to eco/sport/turbo customized to 20/50/100. I rarely use anything that isn't one of those 3 in microtune (and usually simply because I miscounted/misheard the beeps changing the levels). And, it's not like I can't switch it to microtune while on the bike. Just hold a button, and I am flipped over). IT's just, a lot of times I get on the bike, it defaults to 50% microtune and I ride that until I hit a hill that annoys me. Then I jump to 100. After that I typically drop to 20 (and often don't go back to 50 for the rest of the ride).

Abandoning microtune would also allow better visualization of assist levels. This data *is* gathered by various things. And it visualizes better when not using microtune (because this isn't standardized and is specialized specific). I also feel like doing so is a commitment to fitness. I try pretty hard to stay at 50% microtune or lower. As I learn the hills, I do stay there. BUt on new routes where there is a lot of functional unknown effort, just looking up them, I simply jump to 100 and push until I am tired and then back off. What I should do is stay at 50, push until I am tired, then move to 100 if it's too exhausting or too slow.

Finally, I stopped at the coffee shop and it was so packed, I decided to skip it and come home. The only seating was outside and I didn't want to be outside in the cold. Also, the wireless sucks there. Going to try and find another place I can sit inside and do work.

So far, this cold doesn't seem to be a reason to slow down biking. This afternoon it will be in the 60's. So, I might be smart and wait for that next time. Problem is I have a history of unexpected work issues in the afternoon. Mornings I can usually flex time better.

Again, a watch with ant+ seems to be the dream. HRM, ANT+ and all bike data. It's under layers in the winter which means there is no point to data display or navigation.
 
Isn't Garmin Forerunner an ANT+ device?
I will comment on your interesting ride report somewhat later!
 
Isn't Garmin Forerunner an ANT+ device?
I will comment on your interesting ride report somewhat later!
Shhhhh, don't tell anyone. I ordered one. It's a secret. ;) I am, for the first time since the apple watch came out, going to try something else. I am not super happy about that as I do use all kinds of stuff on my apple watch. I have a feeling the first few weeks will be like "crap, can't do that anymore". Like timers. How on earth did people make tea without an apple watch!??!! ;) (Yes, I realize the forerunner has a timer function. Not sure it has multiple, and definitely doesn't have siri to start it). Pausing apple tv because the kids aren't listening? Nope. Rapid replies to texts from my wife? definitely not. ;P

Anywho, will see if the fitness stuff is able to outweigh the smart stuff. I don't really want to wear two watches.
 
And, I have another opinion: Garmin should make a sensor only device with the full suite of sensors found on their top grade watches. Basically, take a forerunner, remove the screen and all buttons (and most of the memory possibly some other hardware reductions). Done. This could also be done in the form of a chest strap. But it would have to be comfortable to wear for extended periods.

No interaction, no sounds, no screen, no display of any kind, no solar charging, no maps, just gather data from the sensors (GPS, HRM, ant+, blood ox, temperature, whatever forerunner has ) and send it to the app (obviously with offline storage, so it can sync later). Simple charging. Made to wear for days at a time. Ant+ to the chest strap if you want the "more accurate" HRM and/or the run/cadence stuff that the HRM pro can do (or swimming, where wrist HR is silly).

All the other stuff comes from the app, and data processing is ultimately much better there, with far more visualization and analysis capabilities (that frankly, already exist today through garmin's app).

It *should* cost significantly less than a forerunner and act as a more intro device to get people hooked to the data. Up selling, to a watch or bike computer isn't out of the question at some point. Getting a user into the garmin eco-system *is* the point for garmin. It basically has no value without a garmin device ( a lot of stuff doesn't really function without a garmin device feeding the data. Rungap even has a way to circumvent some of that ).

"If you put this band on your wrist, we will give you the best fitness data available today to help you get healthier".

That is essentially how I am viewing the forerunner. Particularly if it ends up being a "second watch".
 
Some people need a Garmin smartwatch to navigate by GPS and use the watch as a performance display.
I can't imagine navigation will work better on it than the 1040. It very well may not have the smart range bug once off track (simply because it may lack that "feature"), but it still won't be able to route bike trails without depending on RWGPS. I don't really intend to navigate with the watch. Besides, at this point, it will always be under sleeves/gloves.

I just don't feel up to a winter ride this morning. So I am holding out for the warmer weather this afternoon and crossing my fingers that I can still go.

Kinekt update: So I adjusted it to be a bit stiffer and now the seat "tops out" when riding lightly in the saddle. The vado post also did this but it was *much more annoying* on the vado. I am going between the two settings for the next ride. Either way, outside of that, I didn't think about the seat post at all. It just works and smooths things out tremendously.
 
Of course Derrek your position ss a all year round rider requires you to have the navigation on the bars. However, I could watch a marathon runner riding his gravel bike and navigating with a smartphone on a Summer group ride. He lost the contact with the group but later he caught up with us just because he could use his Garmin watch! Of course he was used to the Garmin watch because of his marathons and the need of performance monitoring but he could reuse the device for GPS navigation.

Besides, Wahoo has just released the Roam v2 🤣
 
Besides, Wahoo has just released the Roam v2 🤣
THey did?!?!? ;) Shocking that discontinued info and timing could lead to that.

Will go look around and learn something about it!

I know the watch *could* navigate. ANd, frankly, I would rather have a bar mounted device. But convenience wins out for me every time.
 
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