Experience Thread: A noobie getting into a specialized vado 5.0 IGH

[rayray]

You seem to be looking for all the reasons the bike doesn’t or can’t provide what you desire. Instead, listen to what others are suggesting and select the best option.

I’m baffled as to what satisfaction you’re getting out of this thread at this point. Does it stem from some need to get others’ approval for returning the bike?

 

[dynamic]

listen to what others are suggesting and select the best option.

The best option isn't available: NPE Cable.

And why should I settle?

The point of this aspect of this thread is to make it clear to others that this bike is *not* a technological marvel of connectivity. Not for a normal user. IT only applies to bike elitists who think you should conform to what the bike offers. I am not a biking elitist. My other ecosystems and needs outweigh changing to suit the bike. I doubt I am alone in that. I may be one of the few that is willing to be so vocal.

And, yes, it's true, knowing what I know today, I do wish I tried the bosch system first. But it's not the same as wanting to return this bike. AS that system may not have forced the same issues despite being even more walled off.

And finally, this isn't going to change if users aren't vocal about it. I would bet, there is a quiet subset of iphone/android users that wish they could get the data but won't give up and use a bike computer. Or won't give up their preferred service/app to do it.

And, all of that is within specialized ability to offer if they so choose.

So I ask. Hoping others feel the same and push back on specialized to be more open with their data.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

As Stephan knows I‘ve been facing the same issues for quite a while. I’ve resolved it to some extent by recognizing my actual needs. I’ve ended up using the Specialized TCD on my 2020 Vado SL 4 for monitoring during rides.

I either run the Strava or Ride with GPA apps on my Apple Watch to track my cardio and capture cadence, speed and the other data. I usually only ride a Rail to Trail path but If I’m following a route from GPS I may put my phone on the handlebars. Otherwise it stays safely in a pocket.

Don't get me wrong BEC but your use of Apple Watch for e-biking reminds me of fooferdoggie who rides his Bosch E-Bikes but uses a cycling computer for ride data (because he cannot get the data he needs from his e-bikes or rather is not interested to get the data)

 

[Stefan Mikes]

The point of this aspect of this thread is to make it clear to others that this bike is *not* a technological marvel of connectivity.

It is the best what you can get in the market re connectivity. While Apple Watch decidedly is not a marvel of sports wearables.

 

[dynamic]

It is the best what you can get in the market re connectivity. While Apple Watch decidedly is not a marvel of sports wearables.

And here is the elitism. It’s so prevalent that someone isn’t even allowed to use an apple watch on a bike. And even attempting to use it breaks biker code. The first rule of biker club is we don’t use apple watch. The second rule of biker club is we don’t use apple watch….

Anyone who dares to use this bike must only select from an approved list of heart rate monitors. And the data must be submitted to strava if you want to be a real biker.

I can’t confirm that it's the best. I can only say that if it is, it’s massively disappointing.

 

[GuruUno]

Wow. 14 pages of discussion. Look, IF Specialized REALLY did care about the things that are discussed in these forums, they MIGHT have a voice in contributing and/or asking for us, the participants of this "group" of Specialized bike owners, users, or even those potential consumers are considering this brand to partake in the very things that Beta testing is all about. We can only hope that the new boy on the block (new CEO former Dyson executive Scott Maguire) has the ability to participate in his newfound position. Or even maybe delagate it.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

And here is the elitism.

I'm proud to be called "an elitist".

It’s so prevalent that someone isn’t even allowed to use an apple watch on a bike.

Are you an elitist, too? Apple Watch, well, well, well...

on a bike

On a bike, yes. It simply does not work with e-bikes.

The first rule of biker club is we don’t use apple watch.

The first rule of a gravel cycling club is all participants are given a GPX route so no-one is lost on a group ride. Almost any of the group ride participants uses either a Wahoo or a Garmin, and some use a Karoo 2. I met only a single person using a GPS smartwatch on the ride but he rode a steel bike and was using platform pedals: an eccentric.

Anyone who dares to use this bike must only select from an approved list of heart rate monitors.

No-one I know in my gravel cycling club uses a heart rate monitor. It is because:

• Younger people are not concerned about their HR yet
• The HR monitors are the road-cycling thing, where performance really matters.

For one, I own a HR monitor but do not use it. It is because I am on blood overpressure medications that control my heart rate, and it is unlikely my HR might go over 120. As my heart cannot deliver more blood than it does, I simply vary the assistance as I ride to feel comfortable and have a little bit of workout.

Dynamic: If you were a roadie riding 100 mile trips, I would have understood your need for the HR monitoring. You, however, typically ride for 10 miles with assistance! And you are not old!

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Wow. 14 pages of discussion. Look, IF Specialized REALLY did care about the things that are discussed in these forums, they MIGHT have a voice in contributing and/or asking for us, the participants of this "group" of Specialized bike owners, users, or even those potential consumers are considering this brand to partake in the very things that Beta testing is all about. We can only hope that the new boy on the block (new CEO former Dyson executive Scott Maguire) has the ability to participate in his newfound position. Or even maybe delagate it.

I'd like Apple Inc. was listening to the users who would like to have ANT+. Why do you bash Specialized not Apple? Would Apple Inc. listen to you?
Most of the 14 pages is Dynamic unhappy his Apple Smartwatch does not work with Specialized e-bikes Or, Specialized e-bikes not recognizing the presence of RWGPS. The cycling world revolves around Strava, period.

 

[dynamic]

I'm proud to be called "an elitist".

Are you an elitist, too? Apple Watch, well, well, well...

On a bike, yes. It simply does not work with e-bikes.


The first rule of a gravel cycling club is all participants are given a GPX route so no-one is lost on a group ride. Almost any of the group ride participants uses either a Wahoo or a Garmin, and some use a Karoo 2. I met only a single person using a GPS smartwatch on the ride but he rode a steel bike and was using platform pedals: an eccentric.


No-one I know in my gravel cycling club uses a heart rate monitor. It is because:

• Younger people are not concerned about their HR yet
• The HR monitors are the road-cycling thing, where performance really matters.

For one, I own a HR monitor but do not use it. It is because I am on blood overpressure medications that control my heart rate, and it is unlikely my HR might go over 120. As my heart cannot deliver more blood than it does, I simply vary the assistance as I ride to feel comfortable and have a little of workout.

Dynamic: If you were a roadie riding 100 mile trips, I would have understood your need for the HR monitoring. You, however, typically ride for 10 miles with assistance! And you are not old!

And if I have a health condition that my apple watch monitors?

Last I checked, and please correct me if I am wrong, but I am not a member of your gravel cycling club. But, obviously, I should be conforming to them as well.

But please tell me again how you know better than I what I want out of a bike. And how I am wrong for wanting to use the technology that I already carry and supports me in many other ways to accommodate biker club. And how it is absolute heresy for me to expect specialized iOS apps to have the basic feature set that every other iOS fitness app has on the appstore. Sheer lunacy.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

And if I have a health condition that my apple watch monitors?

If you have a health condition requiring HR monitoring, get yourself Polar OH-1, for instance. Not the yuppie Apple Smartwatch.

Last I checked, and please correct me if I am wrong, but I am not a member of your gravel cycling club. But, obviously, I should be conforming to them as well.

Are you a member of any cycling club? Because you -- ironically -- wrote about cycling clubs. I am a member, and I am expected to ride for 70 miles with 45% of off-road with a big group of people younger and healthier than I am. The coming Saturday. Riding through a deep ford is guaranteed; been there done that already.

But please tell me again how you know better than I what I want out of a bike.

"Want" is the keyword. You want, want, want. You will not get it. Get used to that thought. If you're unhappy with Specialized, there are new e-bikes from Canyon and Cube with the latest Bosch Smart System. Perhaps you'll find your Holy Grail there, although I doubt it.

And how it is absolute heresy for me to expect specialized iOS apps to have the basic feature set that every other iOS fitness app has on the appstore.

As I said before, Apple is not making e-bikes. If the corporation will ever do it, you will be delighted to be in your "Apple walled garden" you need so badly.

 

[dynamic]

I'd like Apple Inc. was listening to the users who would like to have ANT+. Why do you bash Specialized not Apple? Would Apple Inc. listen to you?
Most of the 14 pages is Dynamic unhappy his Apple Smartwatch does not work with Specialized e-bikes Or, Specialized e-bikes not recognizing the presence of RWGPS. The cycling world revolves around Strava, period.

Ant+ *lost*. It used to be in millions of current phones, Samsung used to include in in many models of their products of all kinds. They stopped doing so because the market decided they wanted bluetooth for the few devices people were using ant+. The exception to that is niche fitness equipment. Ant+ is a wonderful technology that *got beat*. The world rejected it as a general purpose technology in non-fitness sense. When that happened, it became a niche walled garden under the use of fitness elites. And it is a *great* match for that. But it is no longer in *any* successful widespread general purpose device of any type that I can find. *only* dedicated fitness equipment. And it used to be included in those general purpose devices. That's really not a good sign for your amazing open environment.

Do I wish Apple would do it anyway? sure. I do. But why would they? There are like 5 bikes on the planet that use it. Sorry, no. It's up to those 5 bikes to work with android and apple. Not the other way around.

If you have a health condition requiring HR monitoring, get yourself Polar OH-1, for instance. Not the yuppie Apple Smartwatch.

So, now you are my doctor. How arrogant are you?

Are you a member of any cycling club?

It's a fight club reference. You missed it.

find your Holy Grail there, although I doubt it.

I honestly don't understand how you live with so little vision. You can't dare to imagine products that have better user experiences, more interoperability, and draw more casual users so specialized can sell more bikes. Instead you argue in favor of the comfy walled garden you have and pretend that it's this open and amazing place. (Hint: it isn't)

And all of this arrogant response because I criticized specialized for not living up to the basics of an iOS app and allowing the data out over other protocols? Like this will ruin your biker club? The *only* thing it can possibly do is make your loved bike company more accessible to more people. Are you genuinely against that? It appears that you are.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Ant+ *lost*.

For smartphone centric people. Not for the world of sports. The smartphone actually does not belong in the sports world.

So, now you are my doctor. How arrogant are you?

Oh, we are becoming sensitive? Did your doctor prescribe you the Apple Watch?

You can't dare to imagine products that have better user experiences, more interoperability, and draw more casual users so specialized can sell more bikes.

Mention a single one. An e-bike, of course.

I criticized specialized for not living up to the basics of an iOS app and allowing the data out over other protocols?

Mission Control is an iOS and Android app. Honestly, I only use it for setting the assistance levels and diagnosis.
The industry is not interested what you "want". Got it?

 

[dynamic]

The smartphone actually does not belong in the sports world.

See, elitism. The market is going to disappoint you over the next decade. This is your opinion. And I see you are one of those people that would rather shut others out than include them. That's all fine. But don't pretend your bike is anything but the same way. You *want* it to shut non-elitist out. You want it to eliminate the non gravel cycling conformers. Those people who dare to use a phone or an apple watch. You do know what this sounds like, right?

doctor prescribe you the Apple Watch?

Yes.

Mention a single one. An e-bike, of course.

Do you not understand what the word "imagine" means?

The industry is not interested what you "want". Got it?

Apparently the industry is. Since specialized apps are pretty terribly rated on their respective app stores. But, hey, as long as they serve the elites, that doesn't matter, right?

 

[Stefan Mikes]

See, elitism.

Sports is elitism per se. You will understand it yourself after your first Metric Century (62 miles).

Do you not understand what the word "imagine" means?

The e-bike you dream of has not been even designed yet.

Since specialized apps are pretty terribly rated on their respective app stores.

How many times did I say I used a Wahoo, not the Mission Control? The farthest thing from the "walled garden" you believe in.

Data as extracted from my Vado SL by the Wahoo Roam.

 

[dynamic]

not the Mission Control?

Why do you think this terrible app should be good enough for me, when it's not good enough for you?

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Why do you think this terrible app should be good enough for me, when it's not good enough for you?

You are free not to use MC. The ANT+ freedom let me use two different Wahoo models. It could be any Garmin Edge: 530, 830, 1030+, 1040+. Do you think Wahoo, Garmin, or Polar have any agreement with Specialized or Giant? No, they do not have it. It is ANT+. If you wanted a cycling smartwatch compatible with Specialized e-bikes, here is the list of the best ones (I might have quoted it before). I cannot spot Apple Smartwatch there

Best cycling watch in 2023 | What is the best smartwatch for cycling?

Everything you need to know about these wearable devices

www.bikeradar.com

The Garmin Forerunner 945 is the best of them all. $600, not 1800. It needs to be an elitist to buy a $1800 smartwatch operating in a "walled garden", by the way. (Or, perhaps I misunderstood the price of the Apple Watch?)

 

[mschwett]

Both of those choices are deficient. Let's play this game. I get an ant+ HR strap and use mission control. Here is what I lose:

no heart rate data in apple health *while using an iOS device to track the rides*
I get zero control or display on my apple watch *while using an iOS device to track the rides*
I have to run a second app for navigation
I am limited to strava and komoot
And I still have to put on said additional HR monitor.

…

Defending this company on these issues is just silly. The issues exist. You choose not to acknowledge them because they don't bother you.

apple health : you’re wrong. i have all my HR data in apple health.
apple watch display : true. mission control does not have a watch app. i initially wanted that, and used the watch versions of the cyclemeter app, but quickly realized that it’s a horrible place for a display or buttons while, you know, actually riding a bicycle. you want them centered, not facing outward as your wrist might, and in reach of a thumb with your hand is on or near the center of the bars. it’s very hard to control an apple watch while riding a bike.
second app: yes. but i always prefer to use the best tool for the job, and highly doubt specialized or any bike maker will ever do a better job than a dedicated app, google, etc.
limited to strava: no. not at all. why do you say that? mission control outputs totally standard open data files. you can open them in wordpad if you feel like it. or trainingpeaks, or golden cheetah, or LITERALLY EVERY OTHER CYCLING FITNESS PLATFORM OUT THERE. you are complaining about things that you have no experience of.
additional monitor: yes. that initially annoyed me too, and i spent a lot of time trying to make it work with the watch, but in the end an optical heart rate monitor on your wrist is not the right approach for cycling if you really want accurate HR data at regular intervals. as a person with a chronic heart rhythm condition, i want good HR data to base important health related decisions on.

you keep setting up this strawman that im defending specialized to the death. i’m not - it would be great if there was a standard bluetooth protocol for e-bike output that they either developed and shared or abided by. but i asked you to show me someone using that approach (twice) and you have ignored it both times because, i’m guessing, nobody does. none that i’ve used certainly, and there are probably reasons for it. hint: the reason is not that you’re smarter than everyone who works on e-bikes.

i do hope the industry eventually gets there. in the meantime, before writing another novel, find an e-bike which broadcasts all the data you want over standard bluetooth protocols and try it out. i’m not aware of any in existence, but once again, i would love to be proven wrong on that point.

 

[mschwett]

The best option isn't available: NPE Cable.

lol, how do you even know that? unlike me, you’ve never used it or the viiiiiva HRM bridge.

 

[dynamic]

apple health : you’re wrong. i have all my HR data in apple health.

Then how did it get there? Because mission control doesn't do it. ( think I know the answer, but please look into it ). When I use mission control, it doesn't create any ride data in fitness, which means I can't see heart rate data associated with that ride (regardless of ant+ or otherwise). So, which app put the ride data and heart rate data in apple health?

it’s very hard to control an apple watch while riding a bike.

I use it when I'm stopped. As it's typically easier and faster than using the phone.

second app:

Same as next one

limited to strava: no. not at all. why do you say that? mission control outputs totally standard open data files. you can open them in wordpad if you feel like it. or trainingpeaks, or golden cheetah, or LITERALLY EVERY OTHER CYCLING FITNESS PLATFORM OUT THERE. you are complaining about things that you have no experience of.

You guys can't wrap your head around the fact that I am a *casual rider* that wants this data. I don't want to get off the bike, e-mail myself files to upload to 12 websites. I have been very clear that I want *less work* on my bike rides. If the app doesn't do it, I am not interested in it. I don't want to insert steps to go on a ride, or do when I get back. The Apple Experience. When I say the usability is terrible *this* is what I mean. It's the same reason I don't want a bike computer: more work. IT's not that I have any biased against them. It's that I am lazy. And I do biking for the sake of getting out of the house and enjoying myself. Not taking my technology job with me.

additional monitor: yes. that initially annoyed me too, and i spent a lot of time trying to make it work with the watch, but in the end an optical heart rate monitor on your wrist is not the right approach for cycling if you really want accurate HR data at regular intervals. as a person with a chronic heart rhythm condition, i want good HR data to base important health related decisions on.

In this scenario it's purely trend analysis. Accuracy isn't all that important. That said, and unless you have done something mystical on your apple health side, even if I used a "better" heart rate monitor, I won't have that data in apple health. And yes, the apple watch absolutely misses readings at times. Just for the record, I actually *agree* that if the accuracy the data is essential, another option is likely better. It's not essential in my case.

but i asked you to show me someone using that approach (twice) and you have ignored it both times because, i’m guessing, nobody does.

I have answered this. The npe cable proves that this already works. Otherwise nothing would be able to read in that data. *You* told me, it works. So, if there isn't a standard that these apps used to read in the data npe cable was broadcasting, how did you get the data? I am sure no *bike* company is doing it today. But there are lots of Bluetooth Smart devices (including bike parts) out there that use the standards that exist today. How do you think BLE after market cadence, speed and power sensors work? RWGPS even has a list of them that work with the app directly.

So, does npe cable work or not? Because if it does, the BLE standards to get basic data *already exist*. Which is it? Can it give me cadence speed and power from the bike data or not?

I assume it can. And so, specialized *could* implement what exists today and then/also join the bluetooth board (I honestly forget what they call them at the moment) to shape tomorrow. Assuming specialized doesn't share @Stefan Mikes anti-smartphone beliefs.

i do hope the industry eventually gets there

Yeah me too. However, I would gladly accept a better mission control app in lieu of that. I don't mind walled gardens. I just want ones that work well and don't create lots of work for me.

 

[dynamic]

lol, how do you even know that? unlike me, you’ve never used it or the viiiiiva HRM bridge.

Because I am not putting an extra device on me to solve the problem. So, either NPE Cable is it, or it doesn't exist. NPE Cable can live in my bike bag. Permanently.