Elderly and new to Electric-Bike's

[Norwin]

@Norwin , @Alex M is referring to two types of ebikes:

Cadence-sensing: gives you help every time you pedal, not matter how softly. You decide how much help to receive by picking the setting. For example, on recent versions of the bike I have, PAS ("pedal assist") 1 goes up to 8mph, PAS 2 up to 11mph, PAS 3 up to 14mph, PAS 4 up to 17mph, and PAS 5 up to 20mph. When you start riding, you pick PAS 1, if you want just a bit of help. Once you get to 8mph, the PAS stops helping. If you drop below 8mph, it helps again. It does this just because it senses pedaling and speed. It doesn't matter how hard you pedal. If you want to go faster than 8mph, you can keep it on PAS 1 and pedal harder. Or, if you want the bike to assist you to get to a higher speed, you can pick PAS 2. You don't have to use the PAS settings in order. The higher PAS the more acceleration you will experience. To have good balance, for a beginner I'd recommend starting on PAS 1 and going up one by one, to get used to the feeling.

Torque-sensing: the bike gives you help based upon how hard you pedal. If you pedal softly, you only get a little help. The harder you pedal, the more the bike helps. Some say this has a more natural feeling than cadence-sensing. But, it requires a higher level of physical fitness.

A physically fit person can get a lot out of either a cadence-sensing OR a torque-sensing bike, because with either you control how much help you are getting. If someone has stamina issues, joint issues, heart problems, or anything else that means pedaling harder can be a problem, either always or intermittantly, then a cadence-sensing bike might be a better fit for that person.

What @Alex M is saying is that if someone doesn't have the stamina to pedal very hard, they won't get much help from a torque-sensing bicycle.

A final example: Let's say the rider is tired and pedaling softly, but wants to get home in a timely manner. On a cadence-sensing bike, they just put the PAS on a higher level, and by continuing to pedal softly (what someone may have called "clown pedaling" even--pedaling without getting any "bite" with the gears, but feet moving nonetheless), they can get home at a reasonable clip.

Does this all make any sense?

BTW, I enjoy my cadence-sensing bike. I'm in my 50's and have no health problems, but found riding a conventional bike in our very hilly terrain to be a lot of work and not a lot of fun. I love my ebike. Commuted 25 miles today, mostly on PAS 3, which on my bike takes me up to a bit over 17mph.

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Wow, what a wonderful explanation. And, description.

And, it's only taken six or seven pages of these replies to have such a concise explanation.

We men just think everyone knows what we know. Or, they should, huh!

Yes, thank you.

Norwin

 

[Norwin]

If you need a throttle, - Bosch motors don't have it. Townie is out, then. Most mid-drive motors don't have a throttle. Exceptions that I am aware of, are Bafang and Dapu mid-drives.

Here is a "flat foot" frame with a throttle: https://electricbikereview.com/eg/maui-500-ex/

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I just came across Trek e-bikes. Not priced too badly. Has a great reputation. And, their lower priced e-bike isn't to out of range to extend our budget towards. However, the local Trek dealer, as I explained is NOT into E-bikes.

In fact, our single bike dealer who sells TREK kinda' recoiled when I asked.

The Mrs. and I wonder if TREK would sell to us directly? We also wonder whether their bike is a throttle or not? It's still a 'wee' confusion for the Mrs. and I to understand...I guess, its our advanced age, huh?

How embarrassing to get old and find ourselves confused, darn it. What DOES THIS FORUM THINK ABOUT THE TREK? SELLING US DIRECTLY???

With respect, Norwin

 

[Dewey]

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I wonder if TREK would sell to us directly? We also wonder whether their bike is a throttle or not?

No Trek do not sell direct to the customer, the terms of their warranty require the bikes be sold and assembled by a Trek dealer. The Trek Verve+ Low-Step I mentioned in an earlier post is their least expensive model, it is a Class 1 ebike so it does not have a throttle only pedal assist. I'm surprised that Uncle Bill's won't sell you an ebike or even two Electra Townie pedal bicycles to convert with a kit motor, but I suppose that is their loss.

I expect now you ought to consider Mr Mattioli's offer to supply you with ebikes, Crazy Lenny's does carry Pedego, and near the start of this thread ebikemom suggested you look at the Pedego brand. The Pedego Comfort Cruiser model or the Interceptor model, either would be a good choice for you and your wife because they come in a variety of sizes and frame styles including a 24" Step Thru for your wife and a 26" Step Thru for yourself. They are Class 2 ebikes with a twist throttle: you should call Pedego on (800) 646-8604 or email them at [email protected] to check this, but my understanding is the Comfort Cruiser with the 36v battery is their base model and does not have pedal assist but only the throttle. If you desire pedal assist perhaps you could ask if Mr Mattioli would consider doing you a deal within your budget for two of the Pedego Interceptor model with the 48v battery that does have pedal assist as well as the throttle, you should specify you want a 24" and a 26" Interceptor. Ideally you want both bikes to be the same model, either the Comfort Cruiser or the Interceptor, but not one of each because the 36v and 48v batteries cannot be shared whereas if you bought both the same model you would have two identical batteries that you could share if you wanted longer range riding solo or in case one battery broke down.
https://www.pedegoelectricbikes.com/product/comfort-cruiser/
https://www.pedegoelectricbikes.com/product/interceptor/

 

[Cowlitz]

Way back in this thread, you asked about Rav bikes. Did you mean Rad?

I'm not very knowledgeable about E-bikes and how they work. I didn't try out a bunch of bikes. I went to the beach and rented an e-bike and it was fun. I like fun. At that time, I lived in a small community where it was 90 miles to the nearest bike shop. I am a bit impulsive so I ordered a Radmini which looked like the bikes we rode on the beach. It was delivered quickly and I managed to put it together. I had troubles with the pedals falling off and consulted an auto mechanic and he helped solve my problem (after I let him ride the bike).

Rads are cheap. Mine seems to be holding up. It is a Radmini and has small, fat tires on it. I have found that there are fewer tires to choose from if I want to replace them. I haven't had a flat out where I would have to fix it, and am dreading that day. The bike has a throttle.

Have you ridden a motorcycle? The throttle on my bike is located where a motorcycle throttle is. It works the same. I twist it and the bike goes. I use it when I need to power up quickly. I can get going from a stop quicker by using the throttle to get going and that gets me through intersections safely. The bikes we rode on the beach had a button to push for the throttle.

I can't get much more technical. It took some practice to get the folding up process down on the mini. I like to go camping and folding it up allows me to haul it along with camping gear in the back of my pickup truck. I don't think you'll need that feature.

I haven't had any problems with it yet. It seems durable--I've ridden it quite a bit in the forest on some trail like roads, on rocks, in slushy snow, in a rain downpour, etc. It isn't flashy. It is fun to ride and that is important.

Rad now makes step through bikes. I think I'd get one of those if I was ordering one now.

The company had batteries on sale last year. I ordered one and it was an ordeal to get it delivered. There seems to be only one delivery service that will handle the batteries and they are not the best. It took a month to arrive and that was with me having to do some detective work to track it down. Seattle is just over the mountains, about 300 miles so it could have been carried here by a hiker in that time!

That's my input on the Rad.

 

[Norwin]

No Trek do not sell direct to the customer, the terms of their warranty require the bikes be sold and assembled by a Trek dealer. The Trek Verve+ Low-Step I mentioned in an earlier post is their least expensive model, it is a Class 1 ebike so it does not have a throttle only pedal assist. I'm surprised that Uncle Bill's won't sell you an ebike or even two Electra Townie pedal bicycles to convert with a kit motor, but I suppose that is their loss.

I expect now you ought to consider Mr Mattioli's offer to supply you with ebikes, Crazy Lenny's does carry Pedego, and near the start of this thread ebikemom suggested you look at the Pedego brand. The Pedego Comfort Cruiser model or the Interceptor model, either would be a good choice for you and your wife because they come in a variety of sizes and frame styles including a 24" Step Thru for your wife and a 26" Step Thru for yourself. They are Class 2 ebikes with a twist throttle: you should call Pedego on (800) 646-8604 or email them at [email protected] to check this, but my understanding is the Comfort Cruiser with the 36v battery is their base model and does not have pedal assist but only the throttle. If you desire pedal assist perhaps you could ask if Mr Mattioli would consider doing you a deal within your budget for two of the Pedego Interceptor model with the 48v battery that does have pedal assist as well as the throttle, you should specify you want a 24" and a 26" Interceptor. Ideally you want both bikes to be the same model, either the Comfort Cruiser or the Interceptor, but not one of each because the 36v and 48v batteries cannot be shared whereas if you bought both the same model you would have two identical batteries that you could share if you wanted longer range riding solo or in case one battery broke down.
https://www.pedegoelectricbikes.com/product/comfort-cruiser/
https://www.pedegoelectricbikes.com/product/interceptor/

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Hi Dewey,

Wonderful advise. About the bikes.

Dewey - I have recently written to the CEO of Pedego and I am hoping to have him or possibly a company exec's reply. If there isn't a Pedego dealer in a thousand+++ miles - we are hardly taking away any business from an authorised Pedego retailer - Thus, rather than having to accept the add-on mark-up of a retailer for only being the post office of our order and not doing any more service in our purchase than forwarding our order, I think it fair and reasonable to ask Pedego (or for that matter Pedego or any e-bike company) couldn't they help us a wee' bit in making our purchase.

It's not unusual, Dewey.

After a lifetime on an island without retail assistance. We' often get some direct company help. But, then the savings is made up by our having to pay international shipping and handling and our excessively expensive government import duty; and then as is our experience being left with a solo product where there is no company back up or retailer involvement whatsoever - nor any 'value' added.

In this present instance our introducing an electric bicycle like a Pedego or a electric Trek or some more eager e-bicycle companies e-bikes we' would be of more value to the e-bike company than thousands of dollars spent on advertising and marketing - as their bicycles would be given TV and newspaper and all kinds of promotional value that they could never buy for tens of thousands...if they spent it on advertising.

Probably then selling as so VERY often happens, a thousand more of their items, just due to the awesome exposure their cycles would get here where they' have NOW no presence and NOW no competition.

But, then we know this...as it's a common occurrence, here. Probably like when a new restaurant opens in your own neighborhood and everyone flocks to the new restaurant...because it's new and exciting and everyone wants to be seen, wants to try it out, and share the same new experience.

We're like that too...but, with new products. And, for certain an electric bicycle is going to be 'just like that' - I have no doubt whatsoever!!!

And, I don't wish to go through a retailer who simply sends me something and profits for doing no more than forwarding my order. It just isn't fair. Ya know.

My respects,

Norwin

 

[Dewey]

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I think it fair and reasonable to ask Pedego (or for that matter Pedego or any e-bike company) couldn't they help us a wee' bit in making our purchase...After a lifetime on an island without retail assistance. We' often get some direct company help. But, then the savings is made up by our having to pay international shipping and handling and our excessively expensive government import duty; and then as is our experience being left with a solo product where there is no company back up or retailer involvement whatsoever...I don't wish to go through a retailer who simply sends me something and profits for doing no more than forwarding my order.

Good luck reaching Don DiCostanzo (Pedego CEO). If you can't get in touch with Len Mattioloi via Ravi Kempaiah's post #53 on this thread I wonder if it might be worth contacting Michael at Pedego Bermuda (email [email protected]) about how he gets his ebikes shipped to a British Overseas Territory and if he might have advice about how to arrange this for the Cayman Islands?

 

[AlanDB]

Some ebike manufacturers (like Blix for example) allow you to buy direct, but they do not ship directly to your home. They find a nearby bicycle shop and work with them to receive, assemble and test the bike, even if that bike shop does not normally sell eBikes or their brand. I don't know if other manufacturers do the same, but it is worth asking. Most of the assembly and adjusting of an ebike is the same process as a regular bike (attaching the wheels, adjusting the brakes, etc.) so any bike shop can do those tasks.

 

[tomjasz]

Bill's has Trek bikes, which likely means they have Electra as well. I don't quite get why they wouldn't want to sell eBike versions!

 

[Dewey]

Another possible avenue - there is a Yamaha Power Sports dealer in Georgetown https://www.automotiveart.com/Car-Care-Guide/Batteries/
As the only official Yamaha dealer on the island, and they already sell Yamaha dirt bikes and scooters, perhaps you might enquire if they would contact Yamaha Power Assist Bicycles about becoming a dealer (https://www.yamahabicycles.com/contact-us/). Their American ebike division only launched recently so they don't have a step through ebike yet, but feedback in a recent interview with Drew Engelmann (Yamaha brand manager) hinted they would be broadening the product range later this year so it might just be a matter of time in response to demand from customers and bike shops.

 

[Norwin]

Bill's has Trek bikes, which likely means they have Electra as well. I don't quite get why they wouldn't want to sell eBike versions!

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Thomas,

You've lived on an island for awhile. It's one of those simple mystery's of island life.

With respect,

Norwin

 

[Norwin]

Good luck reaching Don DiCostanzo (Pedego CEO). If you can't get in touch with Len Mattioloi via Ravi Kempaiah's post #53 on this thread I wonder if it might be worth contacting Michael at Pedego Bermuda (email [email protected]) about how he gets his ebikes shipped to a British Overseas Territory and if he might have advice about how to arrange this for the Cayman Islands?

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Mr. Dewey -

Neither shipping to us nor receipt is difficult.

It's what we do every day when we purchase from 'off island'.

Now, it's ALL about finding someone who will sell us...what we need/want and what is best for us, based upon the cost and use.

And, that' seems far more difficult...than we had anticipated.

Norwin

 

[Alex M]

Vast majority of ebikes with throttle have "hub" motor, hidden in the wheel hub. So if you need a throttle, look into bikes with hub motors. Not all the hub motors are equipped with throttle, but those sold in the US mostly are.

When pedals are attached to motor, it is "mid-drive". The only mid-drive motor with throttle is Bafang. (Also Dapu mid-drive, Pedego have Dapu hubs but I don't remember whether they have any mid-drive configuration). Biktrix have step-through cruisers with Bafang mid-drive.

RAD ship to the US, Canada and EU. You might ask whether they will ship to your island, but I doubt. Might eventually end up buying "something" from Aliexpress

 

[Alex M]

My friend,

Your explanation was the same as your speaking in an alien language. I have no clue what any of the terms you were writing about means...
Norwin

Didn't realize. These terms were mentioned on the 1st page, when members tried to suggest/summarize a suitable kind of ebike - and this didn't trigger any questions. I don't think anybody here tried to "impress". These terms are as common in e-bikes domain as, say, "chainring" or "seatpost" in non-powered bikes, you can't impress anybody on ebike forums by using it.

Throttle - what it says. Like on a motorcycle or outboard motor. You squeeze it and it revs up. No pedaling required.

PAS - (Pedal Assist) - motor assist proportional to your either pedaling cadence or pedaling effort (torque). It only works when you pedal.

Higher PAS level - more motor assist per same cadence (or same torque). There are often 5 or 6 levels.

Controller - little black box wired between the battery and everything else. It controls everything related to power. On hub motors it "usually" doesn't allow much tinkering with, you don't need to think too much about it.

I don't know whether throttle is necessary for you or your wife. People rarely object when they can have one. Older people object even less, to my observations.

 

[Norwin]

Way back in this thread, you asked about Rav bikes. Did you mean Rad?

I'm not very knowledgeable about E-bikes and how they work. I didn't try out a bunch of bikes. I went to the beach and rented an e-bike and it was fun. I like fun. At that time, I lived in a small community where it was 90 miles to the nearest bike shop. I am a bit impulsive so I ordered a Radmini which looked like the bikes we rode on the beach. It was delivered quickly and I managed to put it together. I had troubles with the pedals falling off and consulted an auto mechanic and he helped solve my problem (after I let him ride the bike).

Rads are cheap. Mine seems to be holding up. It is a Radmini and has small, fat tires on it. I have found that there are fewer tires to choose from if I want to replace them. I haven't had a flat out where I would have to fix it, and am dreading that day. The bike has a throttle.

Have you ridden a motorcycle? The throttle on my bike is located where a motorcycle throttle is. It works the same. I twist it and the bike goes. I use it when I need to power up quickly. I can get going from a stop quicker by using the throttle to get going and that gets me through intersections safely. The bikes we rode on the beach had a button to push for the throttle.

I can't get much more technical. It took some practice to get the folding up process down on the mini. I like to go camping and folding it up allows me to haul it along with camping gear in the back of my pickup truck. I don't think you'll need that feature.

I haven't had any problems with it yet. It seems durable--I've ridden it quite a bit in the forest on some trail like roads, on rocks, in slushy snow, in a rain downpour, etc. It isn't flashy. It is fun to ride and that is important.

Rad now makes step through bikes. I think I'd get one of those if I was ordering one now.

The company had batteries on sale last year. I ordered one and it was an ordeal to get it delivered. There seems to be only one delivery service that will handle the batteries and they are not the best. It took a month to arrive and that was with me having to do some detective work to track it down. Seattle is just over the mountains, about 300 miles so it could have been carried here by a hiker in that time!

That's my input on the Rad.

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And, the gentleman from RAD responded personally to my questions. And, he answered informatively and responsively. This level of professionalism certainly encouraged this customers interest.

Yes, RAD.

With respect,

Norwin

 

[Norwin]

Sorry, didn't realize. These terms were mentioned on the 1st page, when other members tried to suggest/summarize a suitable kind of ebike - and this didn't trigger any questions. I don't think anybody here tried to impress anybody. These terms are as common in e-bikes domain as, say, "chainring" or "seatpost" in non-e bikes.

Throttle - what it says. Like on a motorcycle or outboard motor. You squeeze it and it revs up. No pedaling required.
PAS - (Pedal Assist) - motor assist proportional to your either pedaling cadence or pedaling effort (torque). It only works when you pedal.
Higher PAS level - more motor assist per same cadence (or same torque). There are often 5 or 6 levels.
Controller - little black box wired between the battery and everything else. It controls everything related to power. On hub motors it "usually" doesn't allow much tinkering with, you don't need to think too much about it.

I don't know whether throttle is necessary for you or your wife. People rarely object when they can have one. Older people object even less, to my observations.

_______________________________

Indeed, kind Sir, with your now above reply. These moving target words are now coming into focus and are much better understood. It may seem like knowing the Spanish language when you speak Spanish, however, to those who don't speak it, or are fluent, it's foreign. And, not understood.

Learning takes awhile. And, I am pleased those on this forum have the patience and wish to teach and to calmly share what they know with 'newbies' such as myself and my own patient Mrs.

In addition to being old, we have NOT ridden bicycles in such a long long time. We' admit we now have long forgot what once was well known and familiar about bicycles, such as seat post and chain ring. as for decades there were so much else to 'file' into our memories...and our daily lives.

Yes, sir...we are glad you haven't lost patience with us...and that you also understand that with age comes so many issues, not the least of which is loss of memory and flexibility of body and mind.

With respect,

Norwin

 

[Cowlitz]

________________________________________

And, the gentleman from RAD responded personally to my questions. And, he answered informatively and responsively. This level of professionalism certainly encouraged this customers interest.

Yes, RAD.

With respect,

Norwin

Yes, I forgot to mention that they've been very easy for me to contact when I've done something stupid. They don't laugh whilst on the phone anyway.

 

[Alex M]

If RAD is willing to sell, I would go for it. They don't always have it in stock.

Why would anybody laugh when customer is calling, I don't know. Ebikes are expensive items.

 

[Norwin]

If RAD is willing to sell, I would go for it. They don't always have it in stock.

Why would anybody laugh when customer is calling, I don't know. Ebikes are expensive items.

If RAD is willing to sell, I would go for it. They don't always have it in stock.

Why would anybody laugh when customer is calling, I don't know. Ebikes are expensive items.

_____________________________

You really like the RAD?

It's quite affordable. And, they're eager to sell same. And, ship.

 

[Cowlitz]

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You really like the RAD?

It's quite affordable. And, they're eager to sell same. And, ship.

I have almost 800 miles on mine in less than a year's worth of riding. I don't ride much in the winter. The only problem I've had was it balked coming up a steep hill to my house. That was because I hadn't charged up the battery and the bike had been setting outside in below freezing weather for a few hours. You shouldn't have the cold weather problems.

I wonder about the other brands of bikes, but I'm cheap so I try not to think about them much. I imagine they may be better built, or smoother riding or something and that is why they cost more.

 

[Alex M]

Norwin, I don't own RAD. It is not a cream of the crop, but they installed a lot of good stuff there, and 2019 models have become better yet. It is cheaper than other comparable bikes because there are no dealers, no local retail store support, limited options for test-ride. But then, you would buy remotely any other bike as well, so why not RAD...

Motor type on their City and City Step is called "direct drive", it has less moving parts inside than some other motors, so should last longer, it won't be as good for hills climbing as other motor types, but your terrain is flat.
For Mrs there "might" be an issue with seat height on City, as she is shorter, and might prefer smaller wheels.
Mini Step is a creature different from City - different motor type, wider tires.