Ebikemotion X35 and SRAM AXS 12 speed

[qajaq]

I'm interested in fitting my ebikemotionx35 hub with a SRAM AXS 12 speed cassette. Has anyone done this? It requires a SRAM XDR driver instead of the shimano/sram style driver that's standard on the ebikemotion bikes. Is there an AXS XDR driver that will fit the ebikemotion axle? I'm guessing the ebikemotion hub is fitted with a shimano/SRAM (style) eleven speed freehub but the ebikemotion setup doesn't have a thru axle like ordinary bikes.

The freehub is mounted to what is a solid axle part of the motor so it may attach differently than a normal shimano freehub. I just noticed that Wahoo is offering a SRAM AXS freehub conversion for their Kickr smart trainer. It replaces the shimano/sram one that the trainer comes with. Since the Wahoo is a solid axle and takes a shimano freehub what are the chances the Wahoo XDR conversion would fit the ebikemotion axle?

Just asking before I take everything apart and buy stuff that won't work on the chance that someone else has gone down this road already.

 

[smorgasbord]

Wheel drivers are specific to each particular hub manufacturer - I'm not aware of any standards here.

From the comments in this article it appears there is not an XDR driver that will fit the X35.

And looking at this Wahoo page, it appears the Wahoo driver also includes the freehub body with 4 engagement pawls:

So it's unlikely that is exactly the same configuration as the X35 - does that even have pawls? I found this diagram:

There are lots of XDR drivers about (just Google Image for "xdr driver") but it would seem the chances of finding one that mates with the X3 is extremely low.

 

[qajaq]

Hey smorgasbord, Thanks for taking the time to contribute on this issue.... Mostly wishful thinking on my part I'm afraid. Yep, no standards

I'm hoping for some encouraging news from the Mahle folks who build the EBM35x system. There's a whole bunch of bike companies offering EBM35x variants who might be interested in offering a 12 speed version. I figure if folks are making XDR drivers for direct drive trainers surely somebody will build one for actual road bikes.

 

[smorgasbord]

Well, you can get 12-speed drivetrains on normal Shimano-style splined hubs - you just can't get that 10 tooth small cog, you have to settle for 11.

And, no, that's not a Spinal Tap joke. ;^)

 

[qajaq]

Again, thanks for the input. The only 12 speed cassettes I'm aware of (that work on normal shimano HG hubs) are from Sunrace and Miche. Both start at 11 which is OK but have mountain bike ratios. Like 11-50. Rotor lists a 12 speed 11-36 but says it's not compatible with the SRAM AXS flat top chains so no good with AXS etap. Argh!!

 

[smorgasbord]

/// but have mountain bike ratios.

You're right, of course, but I don't understand why you wouldn't just switch over. If all you want is an 11-36 then with a motor you don't need to have 12 different speeds in that range. Heck, SRAM's "ebike drivetrain" EX1 is 11-48 and it only has 8-speeds.

 

[qajaq]

Actually smorgasbord, you're quite right to question my need for 12 speed 11-36 with a motor. Your input is greatly appreciated

Well, my best days are in the distant past but I still rely on the motor mostly as a backup if I'm not riding with a faster group or in the late stages of long rides. I ride without the pedal assist fairly often i.e. relatively flat terrain and mild winds. In that situation 12 speeds over a moderate to wider gear range is nice.

Right now I have a Force AXS 2x Groupset on the Wilier. It has a 46-33 chainset and an 10-33 cassette. A cassette I can't use on Wilier due to the EBM/XDR driver issue. It's working right now with an 11 speed 11-30 cassette. I really like SRAM AXS but would prefer lower gearing or I can stick with what I have and crank up the pedal assist level. Unfortunately upping the power eats into what I rely on as a backup.

As background, I also have a Trek Domane with Absolute Black Oval chainrings 46-30 Ultegra 6800 mechanical paired with an 11-32 cassette. Same top end gearing but way lower gearing.

I live on an island coast with flat open terrain but sometimes unpredictable windy conditions off the ocean. Just a short distance inshore there is plenty of elevation with short but steep inclines. The 46-11 is no issue....spin out and coast the descents. For me the climbs though demand really low gears and/or pedal assist.

So, with my Force AXS 46-33 chainset, I can go Rotor 11-39 cassette paired with Eagle AXS RD and an Eagle 12 speed chain that gives almost the exact gearing as the Trek....that's a fairly wide range 12 speed for really big bucks. (A cassette larger than SRAM 10-33 requires adding Eagle AX$ derailleur) The appearance of a rumored aftermarket long cage conversion for the Red/Force AXS RD would make this much more attractive.

Hope Ebikemotion offers an XDR driver, getting a 33x33 low gear, and rely a bit more on pedal assist...and maybe the additional battery pack.

 

[steve marino]

I don't know why anyone would need 12 speeds even w/o a motor unless they lived someplace like San Francisco or something.

 

[smorgasbord]

Right now I have a Force AXS 2x Groupset on the Wilier.

OK, so you're already heavily invested in wireless shifting and want something compatible with the expensive derailleur. Got it.

 

[qajaq]

smorgasbord and Steve you're both right and my Trek, as described above, pretty well proves it. It continues to serve me well....no 12 speed no motor. Setup with gearing that is probably more appropriate for a gravel bike it makes the steep slopes feel pretty easy.

Not able to put out the watts I used to, I decided a pedal assist road ebike looked pretty good addition to my garage. Lots of choices with ebikemotion motor Orbea, Pinarello, Ribble, Bianchi, Cannondale, Wilier and maybe more. Not the most powerful but the most like a traditional road bike. And likely to be the easiest to pedal without needing the motor turned on which was important to me. Also, buying a new bike, I liked the idea of electronic shifting so SRAM wireless and 12 speed looked more attractive than Di2. And...that's where I'm at for the moment. It's a slippery slope.

 

[3TCat]

@qajaq

did you end up finding a solution for the AXS?

I have a Mahle x35 based 3T Exploro and was wondering about AXS since I already have a spare Eagle AXS RD and paddle shifter.

I would just need the Rotor 11-42 cassette and a KMC chain.

 

[James Myres]

It seems that the Mahle X35 motor uses a Shimano Hyper Glide compatible freehub design integrated into a part of the motor casing. Mahle makes a SRAM compatible part that can convert the new X20 system but not the older X35 system.

According to Prop Bike Supply who has done this with several regular bikes:
You can use the SRAM Rival Etap AXS system with a Shimano Hyperglide 12 speed cassette with the the SRAM 46/33 chain ring and flattop chain. Although the the chain rollers are slightly larger they will break in the cassette within a ride and work well. I'm currently doing this on my 2020 Orbea Gain to upgrade to electronic shifting.

In addition to the cassette change, the bottom bracket needs to change to the SRAM BB86 DUB 86.5 wide bottom bracket. This bottom bracket can handle the 86.5x41 bottom bracket and adapt the 29.5mm diameter axel on the SRAM DUB chain rings.

The current problem is that the cassette lock ring with the pickup magnets for the Mahle X35 system is set up for a 10/11 speed cassette. The 12 speed Hyper Glide cassette is just a tad taller (maybe .030-.040") when stacked up to the 10/11 speed cassettes. The standard Hyper Glide 12 speed lock ring that comes with the cassette has more threads so this is not an issues for a regular bike. However, the X35 10/11 speed lock ring threads are to short to account for the extra stack height and you cannot tight the cassette down without stripping a tread or two. I ordered a Mahle X35 12 speed cassette lock ring online. I'm hoping that this will do the trick.

You can find it at https://www.tradeinn.com/bikeinn/en...s-magnetic-lock-ring-for-cassette/141015320/p