Ebike Newbie

[kaitoen23]

Hi there.

I'm new to the whole ebike thing and have a hard time picking an ebike for me. My knowledge on ebikes and motors are close to none existent.

I plan on getting an ebike next year to commute to work. My route is 21km long and fairly hilly. I weigh about 270 lbs and local laws say I can't go over 32km/h and have a motor outputting a maximum of 500w. Though in many facebook groups and youtube comments of people who live in my city say that 500w is more of a guideline and they mostly have over 1000w.

I'm mostly interested in mid drives because, though hub drives offer the benefit of throttle driving, I also want to try to lose some weight and I'm willing to put in some work.

Also some say that the torque is more important than the watt power itself so that confuses me.

I am welcome to any recommendations and clarifications.

 

[PedalUma]

Hi there.

I'm new to the whole ebike thing and have a hard time picking an ebike for me. My knowledge on ebikes and motors are close to none existent.

I plan on getting an ebike next year to commute to work. My route is 21km long and fairly hilly. I weigh about 270 lbs and local laws say I can't go over 32km/h and have a motor outputting a maximum of 500w. Though in many facebook groups and youtube comments of people who live in my city say that 500w is more of a guideline and they mostly have over 1000w.

I'm mostly interested in mid drives because, though hub drives offer the benefit of throttle driving, I also want to try to lose some weight and I'm willing to put in some work.

Also some say that the torque is more important than the watt power itself so that confuses me.

I am welcome to any recommendations and clarifications.

All good questions. Welcome! You will need a bike with strong wheels such as a smaller cargo bike. Given your weight and the terrain, a mid-drive makes sense. Hub drive motors, even 'geared' hub-drive motors are all single speed as far as the motor is concerned. That means that they cannot do sustained climbs. Mid-drives power the chain and that then goes through the gears of the bike multiplying the force. 500W 'nominal' is fine. These have peek power well above that. Look for a motor torque value of around 80Nm. Good mid-drives do not have throttles. Bad hub-drives do. Good mid-drives, I should say do not have hand throttles. They work sort of like how you accelerate and modulate the accelerator of a car, with pedal pressure. For bikes this is called a 'torque sensor.' All you do is push and the bike amplifies what you are doing. It is very intuitive. I often put good mid-drives on cargo bikes. Big cargo bikes can carry 220 Kg on the rear rack. Small ones will carry 100 Kg on the rear rack. Cargo bikes (look at some used ones) all have extra-strong wheels and spokes. That is the weakest part of bikes for big guys. I am out in the other CA but you can see some photos, if you care, on my website: PedalUma.com. A good cargo bike for conversion to electric costs about $650 US, used. A new good electric cargo bike goes for $3,500 - $5,500. The differential in price is huge. If you can put in a little effort yourself you can make a strong bike into a great electric bike.
Again welcome. Others will soon chime in.

 

[kaitoen23]

All good questions. Welcome! You will need a bike with strong wheels such as a smaller cargo bike. Given your weight and the terrain, a mid-drive makes sense. Hub drive motors, even 'geared' hub-drive motors are all single speed as far as the motor is concerned. That means that they cannot do sustained climbs. Mid-drives power the chain and that then goes through the gears of the bike multiplying the force. 500W 'nominal' is fine. These have peek power well above that. Look for a motor torque value of around 80Nm. Good mid-drives do not have throttles. Bad hub-drives do. Good mid-drives, I should say do not have hand throttles. They work sort of like how you accelerate and modulate the accelerator of a car, with pedal pressure. For bikes this is called a 'torque sensor.' All you do is push and the bike amplifies what you are doing. It is very intuitive. I often put good mid-drives on cargo bikes. Big cargo bikes can carry 220 Kg on the rear rack. Small ones will carry 100 Kg on the rear rack. Cargo bikes (look at some used ones) all have extra-strong wheels and spokes. That is the weakest part of bikes for big guys. I am out in the other CA but you can see some photos, if you care, on my website: PedalUma.com. A good cargo bike for conversion to electric costs about $650 US, used. A new good electric cargo bike goes for $3,500 - $5,500. The differential in price is huge. If you can put in a little effort yourself you can make a strong bike into a great electric bike.
Again welcome. Others will soon chime in.

Thank you for the input. I was looking into converting a bike. I'm guessing since mid drives put the power through the chain, I would have to carry a spare with me in case they break.

Thanks again for the answers

 

[Stefan Mikes]

@kaitoen23:
I understand you know very little of e-bikes. It reminds me of my early steps.

I wanted to convert a traditional bike. Fortunately, my manager at work told me I better bought a manufactured e-bike. So I bought it: a 250 W hub drive motor trekking e-bike (I'm in Europe, where the e-bike laws are strict). Luckily, the e-bike construction was such simple my local LBS was happy to service it and repair, and I got a great cooperation from the manufacturer (but that cannot be said on majority of online e-bike companies).

When the first e-bike was in repair (yes, the custom derailleur hanger broke, and getting a spare part took a month -- it was a bike bought online), I bought a Specialized Turbo Vado, an older model. And I appreciated having both Specialized LBS and Specialized organization behind my back. After 7 months of riding an e-bike with obsolete (2017-2019) and poor electronics, Specialized upgraded the electronics to 2020 at no extra cost (by warranty). Two years of riding of Vado 5.0 and no single issue: it turned out to be the most valuable of e-bikes I have owned.

Then I bought a Giant Trance E+ 2 Pro: an excellent -- and I mean excellent -- e-MTB. To find out mountain trail biking was not my kettle of fish. Finally, I bought a Specialized Turbo Vado SL, a lightweight and low power e-bike for fitness and gravel cycling.

Two and half years of experience: Now I use only two Specialized mid-drive e-bikes (the "big" and the "lightweight" one), having ridden for 9,462 km in 2021, 8,094 km in 2020, and only 1,400 km in 2019.
----------------
Now: If you try (and it is vital: to try) a decent manufactured e-bike from one of big brands, and you'd be happy with the e-bike demo ride, you can count on your brand LBS to carry all the service, repairs and warranty claims locally (which cannot be said for online e-bikes). Moreover, mid-drives are very efficient and effective, especially on climbing. So called "250 W nominal" mid-drive motor from a big brand can pump up to, say, 550 W of peak mechanical power. There was no hill I could not climb with any of my mid-drive (250 W nominal) e-bikes, and that included 19% grade ascents.

Yes, the torque matters. Both 80 Nm Yamaha/Giant mid-drive motor and Specialized 90 Nm one have been fearless on mountain trails and roads. And if you get a kind of e-bike I'm talking about, you do not need to carry a spare chain. It is enough to carry a master link and a chain breaker. Believe it or not: In my long e-biking history (32,000 m elevation gain in 2021 alone), a chain snapped only once on one of my e-bikes.

Yes, a quality e-bike with good local support does not come free.

 

[kaitoen23]

@kaitoen23:
I understand you know very little of e-bikes. It reminds me of my early steps.

I wanted to convert a traditional bike. Fortunately, my manager at work told me I better bought a manufactured e-bike. So I bought it: a 250 W hub drive motor trekking e-bike (I'm in Europe, where the e-bike laws are strict). Luckily, the e-bike construction was such simple my local LBS was happy to service it and repair, and I got a great cooperation from the manufacturer (but that cannot be said on majority of online e-bike companies).

When the first e-bike was in repair (yes, the custom derailleur hanger broke, and getting a spare part took a month -- it was a bike bought online), I bought a Specialized Turbo Vado, an older model. And I appreciated having both Specialized LBS and Specialized organization behind my back. After 7 months of riding an e-bike with obsolete (2017-2019) and poor electronics, Specialized upgraded the electronics to 2020 at no extra cost (by warranty). Two years of riding of Vado 5.0 and no single issue: it turned out to be the most valuable of e-bikes I have owned.

Then I bought a Giant Trance E+ 2 Pro: an excellent -- and I mean excellent -- e-MTB. To find out mountain trail biking was not my kettle of fish. Finally, I bought a Specialized Turbo Vado SL, a lightweight and low power e-bike for fitness and gravel cycling.

Two and half years of experience: Now I use only two Specialized mid-drive e-bikes (the "big" and the "lightweight" one), having ridden for 9,462 km in 2021, 8,094 km in 2020, and only 1,400 km in 2019.
----------------
Now: If you try (and it is vital: to try) a decent manufactured e-bike from one of big brands, and you'd be happy with the e-bike demo ride, you can count on your brand LBS to carry all the service, repairs and warranty claims locally (which cannot be said for online e-bikes). Moreover, mid-drives are very efficient and effective, especially on climbing. So called "250 W nominal" mid-drive motor from a big brand can pump up to, say, 550 W of peak mechanical power. There was no hill I could not climb with any of my mid-drive (250 W nominal) e-bikes, and that included 19% grade ascents.

Yes, the torque matters. Both 80 Nm Yamaha/Giant mid-drive motor and Specialized 90 Nm one have been fearless on mountain trails and roads. And if you get a kind of e-bike I'm talking about, you do not need to carry a spare chain. It is enough to carry a master link and a chain breaker. Believe it or not: In my long e-biking history (32,000 m elevation gain in 2021 alone), a chain snapped only once on one of my e-bikes.

Yes, a quality e-bike with good local support does not come free.

Oh thank you! I'll be considering Rize ebikes since their showroom is close to me and might also look at Cube. I was also considering specialized but the retailers near me didn't have any of the entry level ones in stock and only had their more expensive models available.

 

[AHicks]

Big Rize fan here. I'm 300 and ride in a hilly area too....
I agree on your call requiring a mid drive for work in the hills. I just have 2 thoughts. The first is if you chose a Bafang mid drive powered bike, you will have that throttle. Though subject to endless debate (bordering on nauseous), I wouldn't have a bike without one. Second, with reasonable care/maintenance and common sense when riding, the bike is not going to eat chains, even if it's one of the 1000w+ varieties. Increased driveline/chain wear as compared to a hub drive, sure. Chain eating? Not in my experience. -Al

 

[kaitoen23]

Big Rize fan here. I'm 300 and ride in a hilly area too....
I agree on your call requiring a mid drive for work in the hills. I just have 2 thoughts. The first is if you chose a Bafang mid drive powered bike, you will have that throttle. Though subject to endless debate (bordering on nauseous), I wouldn't have a bike without one. Second, with reasonable care/maintenance and common sense when riding, the bike is not going to eat chains, even if it's one of the 1000w+ varieties. Increased driveline/chain wear as compared to a hub drive, sure. Chain eating? Not in my experience. -Al

Awesome! Yea maintenance on a bike is not something new to me, I've had multiple road and gravel bikes and they've always been maintained well. I was a bit confused on the throttle part for Rize cause I've always though that mid drives were pedal assistance only. I've already booked a test ride for the Rize MD and hopefully I'll like it.

 

[AHicks]

That MD is a new bike for them. Betting they're going to do well with it. I love the idea of that kind of power available on something that doesn't have fat tires. I tried a fatty, and didn't care for it (that's the short story).

If you are used to doing maintenance on a conventional bike, my bet is you'll have no trouble at all with an e-bike... -Al

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Look to Cube. It is a class brand.

 

[TrevorB]

Given your weight your choices of bikes is limited if staying within manufacturer's ratings. The weight they normally give is bike+rider+cargo. In saying that a eMTB is designed to handle max weight on rough terrain including jumps, if you only commute then exceeding rating shouldn't be problem.

For commuter go for lights, mudguards, carrier and kickstand. Tires of 2.15-2.4" will give comfortable ride avoid 2.0 or less.
80nm motor minimum which is most of main brand MTB motors.

 

[PedalUma]

That is correct about the chain. If you are a big guy with a big bike on big hills, keeping a chain break and quick link in your bag will be about all you need. I use a little double hook I made from a bet spoke to hold the chain ends together and a little screwdriver to spread the quick link.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

That is correct about the chain. If you are a big guy with a big bike on big hills, keeping a chain break and quick link in your bag will be about all you need. I use a little double hook I made from a bet spoke to hold the chain ends together and a little screwdriver to spread the quick link.

I just take the chain off the chainring, break the faulty link, replace it with the master link -- use master link pliers (an option I carry with me) to engage the master link -- then put the chain back on the chainring, Both techniques are good!