E-MT1000 750W Mid-Drive Project

[flymeaway]

Hi Folks,

I found a nice MT1000 and have started the "Electrification" and motorization. BBS-02 750W motor and either 15AH or 20AH battery.

I will only post on this thread as I progress through the upgrade....SHOULD BE FUN x 8!

I've already calculated that the total weight of the bike after conversion will be around 66 lbs. That's only 11 lbs. heavier then the E-Motobecane.



Court J.

 

[flymeaway]

Ok....researched batteries and much to my chagrin the only real option is a brick. Not what I wanted, but putting the battery in the frame wasn't realistic. So it's a 25AH 48V brick on the rack....

 

[Admin]

Ok....researched batteries and much to my chagrin the only real option is a brick. Not what I wanted, but putting the battery in the frame wasn't realistic. So it's a 25AH 48V brick on the rack....

Are you sure? I saw a conversion @Chris Nolte had made that uses a downtube mounted AllCell battery pack for the BBS02 and it worked pretty well. For your tandem it could go where the second bottle cage is on the downtube.

 

[Chris Nolte]

Are you sure? I saw a conversion @Chris Nolte had made that uses a downtube mounted AllCell battery pack for the BBS02 and it worked pretty well. For your tandem it could go where the second bottle cage is on the downtube.

View attachment 1473

This ones actually not an AllCell pack. It's one we imported from overseas. Allcell will be putting out a 48v standalone pack at the end of the year. Currently they just have a 36V version. It's called the Summit. You could get a naked pack from them, but it will need to go in a bag or have a case built for it.

Flymeaway - You should be able to do some serious touring with a 48v25ah though. Definitely update us with pics and stories

 

[flymeaway]

Are you sure? I saw a conversion @Chris Nolte had made that uses a downtube mounted AllCell battery pack for the BBS02 and it worked pretty well. For your tandem it could go where the second bottle cage is on the downtube.

View attachment 1473

I searched for a battery for quite sometime and quickly realized that 48V batteries are substantially larger. I wanted at least 15AH, but settled on 25AH because the cost wasn't substantially more and the final dimensions were not much bigger. The battery is 10x6x6 at 22 lbs. It does fit in the frame in front of the Stoker, but the 6 inch dimension intrudes into the work space. Only a custom build would fit. I bought the battery from the same dealer I got the 36V 15AH battery. Good price and he shipped it the same day.

Court J

 

[flymeaway]

This ones actually not an AllCell pack. It's one we imported from overseas. Allcell will be putting out a 48v standalone pack at the end of the year. Currently they just have a 36V version. It's called the Summit. You could get a naked pack from them, but it will need to go in a bag or have a case built for it.

Flymeaway - You should be able to do some serious touring with a 48v25ah though. Definitely update us with pics and stories

Yes...should be fun! Motor is mounted.....and one cable re-route is done. A bit of chainring magic and building the battery box are the remaining tasks. The rest is basically, bolt on, plug and play.

Court J

 

[flymeaway]

Update....the diameter of the frame tubes is so much greater on the Cannondale tandem that the motor just barely fits. Had to rotate the eccentric aluminum tension-er so the bore was aligned with the front of the BB and the motor just cleared...whew!!!! Consequently, had to re-route the rear derailleur cable. Made an aluminum fixture and used 1/4" poly-flo tubing as a wire guide.

Court J

 

[calvin]

I searched for a battery for quite sometime and quickly realized that 48V batteries are substantially larger. I wanted at least 15AH, but settled on 25AH because the cost wasn't substantially more and the final dimensions were not much bigger. The battery is 10x6x6 at 22 lbs. It does fit in the frame in front of the Stoker, but the 6 inch dimension intrudes into the work space. Only a custom build would fit. I bought the battery from the same dealer I got the 36V 15AH battery. Good price and he shipped it the same day.

Court J

Wow! 48v 25AH... From what company did you purchase that size battery, and what did it cost you, if you don't mind me asking?

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

I have noticed 48V, 40Ah battery: http://hallomotorcom.en.ec21.com/48V_40AH_LIFEPO4_Battery_With--8539276_8539341.html

 

[flymeaway]

Wow! 48v 25AH... From what company did you purchase that size battery, and what did it cost you, if you don't mind me asking?

http://www.ebay.com

This is the same individual I bought the 36V 15AH for the E-Motobecane. The battery is working well. He said he will have 48V 20AH's in a few weeks. He ships immediately.

Court J

 

[flymeaway]

I have noticed 48V, 40Ah battery: http://hallomotorcom.en.ec21.com/48V_40AH_LIFEPO4_Battery_With--8539276_8539341.html

WOW...now that's a monster!!

 

[calvin]

I have noticed 48V, 40Ah battery: http://hallomotorcom.en.ec21.com/48V_40AH_LIFEPO4_Battery_With--8539276_8539341.html

From what I have read somewhere, if two miles per Amp Hour is a legit estimate, that 48V, 40Ah battery should give a range of about 80 miles! However, I think that the extra weight would cut into that: when half+ discharged just think about all that extra weight you gotta drag around.

 

[MarcD]

There are a lot of variables, including weight, motor, controller, etc... But real work data we have on the site:

- My Turbo S, 260 lb rider, flat with some hills, uses 20 to 22 watt-hours per mile.
- Bike_On has a Flaco set up on a road bike, and has extensive data on his rides in that forum, and uses 16-17 watt hours per mile

Using my stats, it would be about 87 miles, using his way higher. When you get some real world usage, you can calc you watt-hrs used and figure out what your setup offers then do some battery math.

 

[calvin]

There are a lot of variables, including weight, motor, controller, etc... But real work data we have on the site:

- My Turbo S, 260 lb rider, flat with some hills, uses 20 to 22 watt-hours per mile.
- Bike_On has a Flaco set up on a road bike, and has extensive data on his rides in that forum, and uses 16-17 watt hours per mile

Using my stats, it would be about 87 miles, using his way higher. When you get some real world usage, you can calc you watt-hrs used and figure out what your setup offers then do some battery math.

What I have is: a 60lb Motiv Shadow, my weight: 180lbs, 500 watt geared rear hub motor, 36V 15AH battery, riding on basically a flat surface, in a dead calm, with no real pressure pedalling, I get 30-32 miles at 18-22 mph with the last two miles at a sharply reduced speed. If I travel at 9-12 mph then I can get about 45 miles before the battery is discharged. Slower speeds = Lessened wind drag and battery strain. I think that if my bike was capable of 28 mph, I would be lucky to get 20 miles. These were the results of an actual test on my part, where I completely discharged the battery twice. I'll not do that again.

 

[MarcD]

So your real world usage on that bike is: 36 volt x 15 amphr = 540 watt hour.

540 watt-hours / 32 miles = 16.87 watt hrs per mile.

540 watt hrs / 45 miles = 12 watt hrs per mile.

Pretty efficient. Hills and wind can dramatically affect efficiency, so calm winds in the flats makes this a better case scenario.

 

[calvin]

So your real world usage on that bike is: 36 volt x 15 amphr = 540 watt hour.

540 watt-hours / 32 miles = 16.87 watt hrs per mile.

540 watt hrs / 45 miles = 12 watt hrs per mile.

Pretty efficient. Hills and wind can dramatically affect efficiency, so calm winds in the flats makes this a better case scenario.

Yup, with a stiff breeze at your back, your distance travelled increases tremendously before the battery charge depletes recognizably; inversely, the ride back home against that same wind drains the battery at a surprising rate. Something to remember on windy days.

 

[flymeaway]

Update....the diameter of the frame tubes is so much greater on the Cannondale tandem that the motor just barely fits. Had to rotate the eccentric aluminum tension-er so the bore was aligned with the front of the BB and the motor just cleared...whew!!!! Consequently, had to re-route the rear derailleur cable. Made an aluminum fixture and used 1/4" poly-flo tubing as a wire guide.

Court J

MT1000 IS DONE!!!!!!!....rode it home from my company and WOW, it climbs all the hills with very little peddling effort!!!! Frankly, it almost doesn't feel like a bicycle because you don't have to do any real hard peddling to top almost any hill. Here are some Pics:

s.

Couple of observations. Because the 8Fun chain ring is on the right side I had to modify the stokers chain ring holder. I made stand-offs to increase the space between the 48T ring and the 36T ring. If I were to build another Tandem I'd approach the problem with a different solution. Works, but not particularly elegant.

The battery box is big, bulky and heavy......don't really know what else could have been done. I'm glad I put the battery box on the E-Motobecane on the down tube. I'm afraid putting it on the rack would alter the handling significantly.

Now let the FUN begin!

Court J.

 

[angelo212]

Did you build that battery box for the 48v 25a brick you bought on ebay? You did a great job on that beautiful bike.

 

[flymeaway]

Did you build that battery box for the 48v 25a brick you bought on ebay? You did a great job on that beautiful bike.

I'm very fortunate to have a company with a full machine shop, mills lathes and a large stock of 6061 bar, plate and sheet. I did build the box for the E-MT1000 and the E-Motobacane Elite. I would much prefer the box sit on the frame (like the E-Moto) but it wasn't an option because of the size of the battery.

Court J.

 

[Bike_On]

MT1000 IS DONE!!!!!!!....rode it home from my company and WOW, it climbs all the hills with very little peddling effort!!!! Frankly, it almost doesn't feel like a bicycle because you don't have to do any real hard peddling to top almost any hill. Here are some Pics:

View attachment 1545 View attachment 1546 View attachment 1547 View attachment 1548 View attachment 1549 View attachment 1550 s.

Couple of observations. Because the 8Fun chain ring is on the right side I had to modify the stokers chain ring holder. I made stand-offs to increase the space between the 48T ring and the 36T ring. If I were to build another Tandem I'd approach the problem with a different solution. Works, but not particularly elegant.

The battery box is big, bulky and heavy......don't really know what else could have been done. I'm glad I put the battery box on the E-Motobecane on the down tube. I'm afraid putting it on the rack would alter the handling significantly.

Now let the FUN begin!

Court J.

All that weight and no suspension... get wider tires?

Very nice build. Enjoy and keep us informed!