Dutch Police not messing about.

[JimFMB]

And then you wonder why more and more U.S. communities ban e-bikes, and you people have trouble to ride an e-bike into a national park.

Europe has defined the e-bike as a type and made it legally just a bicycle. Making everything simple and not relying on the person's good or bad will.

 

[JimFMB]

You people?
lol

 

[kevinmccune]

Also, to be somewhat fair, the United States isn't exactly the dystopian hellscape it is portrayed and widely perceived to be. I personally have never witnessed a firefight in a Wal-Mart. It is true, however, that the overall quality of life here has gone into precipitous decline these last ten years without most of us even realizing it. Or even noticing.

We'd all do well to realize that different countries are different and that we might learn something from them.

some of the unhappiest people i see, seem to be scurrying through wal-mart perusing their semi lower priced 2nd grade wares.

 

[6zfshdb]

View attachment 171251

I want one!! Great way to discharge a battery

 

[Mr. Coffee]

And then you wonder why more and more U.S. communities ban e-bikes, and you people have trouble to ride an e-bike into a national park.

You need to keep in mind that in most National Parks on nearly all trails any bicycle, electric or not, is prohibited. The National Park Service has barely came to terms with mountain bikes as a form of outdoor recreation. Also, the plain language of the 1964 Wilderness Act makes any bike an illegal conveyance in designated wilderness -- and the vast majority of National Park land (especially in the Great Parks in the West) is designated wilderness. Fixing or changing that would require an act of Congress, and you can guess how likely that is...

 

[PDoz]

You need to keep in mind that in most National Parks on nearly all trails any bicycle, electric or not, is prohibited. The National Park Service has barely came to terms with mountain bikes as a form of outdoor recreation. Also, the plain language of the 1964 Wilderness Act makes any bike an illegal conveyance in designated wilderness -- and the vast majority of National Park land (especially in the Great Parks in the West) is designated wilderness. Fixing or changing that would require an act of Congress, and you can guess how likely that is...

True wilderness is still a no go over here in Aus , but we can ride anywhere a mountain bike can - because we are legally bikes.

Our govt are even spending public $ cutting tracks on govt land because our tourism potential has been recognised. I'd go so far as to suggest these tracks are designed around emtb capability - the formula seems to be target an average rider at 25 km/h , and try to include a cafe or brewery every 1000 m elevation where they can charge for food as we charge.

 

[mschwett]

In simpler terms, I'm just saying it doesn't matter what kind of bike it is or how fast it can go, it matters how fast it's going, which is totally in control of the rider. I hope you didn't take what I said to mean that I think ebikes should be allowed to go 30 mph wherever they like. That would be ridiculous.

TT

I understand. One of the beautiful things about bicycles though, in most places, is that just about anyone can ride one with no license, no registration, no insurance, no inspections. even kids and the uninsurable. a system which removes the limits of human power currently imposed on the vehicles would almost certainly require some sort of enforcement of speed and other traffic laws, and those costs have to be recouped, the system has to be fair and accountable etc etc. you don’t need any of that with regular bikes in most places, because let’s face it, it takes a lot of work and practice/fitness to propel a regular bike at >20 mph for any extended period of time.

i would far, far prefer every e-bike being limited in assist to 20mph and some number of watts if it meant they could be used everywhere bikes are legal, no registration, licenses, inspection, insurance. if one wants to go a lot faster than that on public property, there are licenses for mopeds and no reason a powerful eBike can’t be considered a variation of such. some jurisdictions could choose to allow them in bike lanes if they wanted to.

 

[mschwett]

I cycled around Amsterdam, the thing that struck me was helmetless women cycling along at speed with helmetless toddlers and babies strapped to the bikes in various horrifically dangerous looking contraptions attatched to handlebars, crossbars and rear stays.

I had to stop looking in the end, they casually carve through mopeds and cars like something out of a circus act.

Outside of the city centre there are paths that meander next to the road but then pull off through parks and into pedestrian areas, they seemed to be used by mopeds and scooters as well.

There are signs saying no motorbikes, but they seem widely ignored.

But then again it's Holland, we visited the children's floor of Amsterdam museum and there were two giant robot tongues that the kids could operate to make them french kiss each other.

We noped out of there.

we see what we want to see I guess - i recall lots of bikes and pedestrians and very few cars behaving badly at speed.

the Netherlands has about half the per capita death rate for pedestrians and cyclists than the United States, despite far far higher population density and approx 25 times as many trips by bike, proportionally to population. so whatever it looked like to you while riding in Amsterdam, they’re doing a MUCH better job encouraging and facilitating bike use, walking, and keeping those people safe while doing so.

 

[Chargeride]

Yup, I never saw a crash or injury, it just looks terrifying, car drivers are very careful and aware, scooters riders not so much.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

This matter has become viral only on Monday 19th of February You were quick on that @Chargeride!

 

[Chargeride]

Always on my phone

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Comments from people who sent me a link about the police roller:

'It looks as if the justice were just two steps away from us'
A guy who could ride an e-bike

'Have a look at that!'
An e-biker

 

[Chargeride]

The UK approach is very much based on public opinion, ebikers and mountain bikers ride everywhere in the national parks with little direct legislation that is actually enforced.
It's enforced by a guilt sign in places where it would obviously be ridiculous to ride anyway.
Its a complicated interaction with our timeless class system, off road biking is a working class pastime and the middle classes with all the clout mainly ignore it as long as it doesn't get to the point of being brought up in the village hall meeting.
They almost entirely have no clue about emtb or bikes being derestricted, as long as you are polite, they will step aside even if technically not a bike path.

Being polite is the British mark of civilisation, which included, sorry, but this is ours now, could you move over there, obviously complete hypocrisy, but you could drive a tank through a national park as long as you kept saying sorry to everyone.

Lovely chap, I hope he gets where he's going.

 

[Kayakguy]

I suspect this will be just like any other new police initiative. They'll go strong at it for a few months, then just let it go. Meanwhile the money spent on the equipment will languish in a garage somewhere until it's forgotten about. In a few years, they'll find it in the back corner, with someone's laundry hanging on it.

Happens in the US all the time, cops get a new program, and there's a flurry of activity for a few months then nothing. PSP's MCE was out in force a few years ago stopping Amish van drivers to check for proper licenses. It went on for about 9 months, now nothing. That activity was prompted by a crash that injured some Amish, and suddenly the legislature found out that people are driving people around without the PUC license. They cracked down under the guise of "doing something" then it has languished ever since. There are now more unlicensed van drivers than ever, and they won't do anything until there's another crash with injuries, and find the driver wasn't licensed by the PUC..

Meanwhile the crackdown was all about "safety" and the MCE's idea of safety was to leave women and children along side the road while they either towed the van or made it leave because they couldn't continue with passengers.

I know, I'm cynical.

15 or 20 years ago, Bellingham imposed a pretty strict pedestrian privilege in street crossings, even where there are no crosswalks. This was actively enforced for a few months, then enforcement slacked off. Interestingly, the newly-learned habits seemed to stick, and drivers now almost always stop for peds, even if the peds haven't yet ventured into the street. But I still don't hurtle myself into oncoming traffic. In contrast, the little town of Aerlie Beach, in Queensland, Australia, had signs posted at the crosswalks saying that autos have the right of way; peds beware. The problem for us Yanks was remembering to look the right direction when checking for traffic. Don't know whether this was true everywhere.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

15 or 20 years ago, Bellingham imposed a pretty strict pedestrian privilege in street crossings, even where there are no crosswalks. This was actively enforced for a few months, then enforcement slacked off. Interestingly, the newly-learned habits seemed to stick, and drivers now almost always stop for peds, even if the peds haven't yet ventured into the street. But I still don't hurtle myself into oncoming traffic. In contrast, the little town of Aerlie Beach, in Queensland, Australia, had signs posted at the crosswalks saying that autos have the right of way; peds beware. The problem for us Yanks was remembering to look the right direction when checking for traffic. Don't know whether this was true everywhere.

It is a strict pedestrian privilege in Poland now (following UE rules). If a pedestrian just approaches the zebra, the driver has to stop the car. If the driver is caught on the offence, the punishment is very heavy. Funnily enough, it is not the same for a cyclist approaching a bicycle crossing... (Whoever is on the crossing first, a car or a bike, has the right of way).

 

[FiremarshallDave]

This is a sensible and reasonable suggestion, but there is an issue. Most of the problematic e-bikes in the US ship with a 28 mph "limit" that the user can easily change.

What e bike goes 28MPH with a rider on it? just because a marketer claims it does not make it so. What was said above is true . Dyno testing does not apply to real world speed. Are you serious in saying you can de restrict the controller and go faster than 28MPH? Can you touch that speed for a moment but then the battery shuts down? Do you understand burst battery Amperage as opposed to continuous draw Amperage? Is this a 3000watt hub or a 5000watt hub? That is a very rare machine. Should we limit all cars to 70MPH? Someone realized long ago that having reserve power was a good thing and could prevent automobile accidents by allowing passing power or situational power to get out of the way of another vehicle to prevent a t bone or getting hit by a train. I like having the reserve power to cross a highway quickly for my own safety. It does not mean I drive my car at 120MPH because that's how fast my car can go. If my E bike goes (20MPH it's a fat tire) and I am passed by a road bike (pedal) going 30MPH where are you drawing the lines? Am I going too fast because I have an electric assist? The rules don't apply to a (pedal) road bike? I rode a road bike faster at age 13 than my e bike goes right now. I did push a 56/13 on a very nice bike and did 64 mile rides. In Poland are Road bike speeds limited to 15MPH? I've said it before will the Tour de France be speed limited this year? We have different laws for different groups again? Will the yellow jersey be in the correct political group? Most of the E bikes I see have Fat tires and high rolling resistance. You then need to factor in wind resistance as NO one is drafting on an E bike. A dyno test is an utterly ridiculous method of testing speed for a fat tire bike. I believe if a limiter (usually a blue wire on a controller) is in place the limit is 16-17MPH. This brings the bike into compliance with U.S law not 28MPH as the above posting sites. Has anyone seen an E road bike? Also don't confuse KPH with MPH just to attract attention to your cause.

 

[FiremarshallDave]

I just want to ask...If the bike on the dyno was ridden by a 12 year old who averaged 13MPH on his ride would the police take his bike away because it was capable of going faster even though he was a very responsible, respectful, rider?

 

[PDoz]

In contrast, the little town of Aerlie Beach, in Queensland, Australia, had signs posted at the crosswalks saying that autos have the right of way; peds beware. The problem for us Yanks was remembering to look the right direction when checking for traffic. Don't know whether this was true everywhere.

Airlie is a tourist destination , and a LONG way from a trauma centre. The roads are shared by drugged out backpackers in hire vans as well as dehydrated farmers ... so it makes sense to tell pedestrians to assume every car will kill them!

At most Australian towns , pedestrians have right of way at pedestrian crossings. Even our cows have right of way on some roads!

 

[AvalancheRun]

What e bike goes 28MPH with a rider on it? just because a marketer claims it does not make it so. What was said above is true . Dyno testing does not apply to real world speed. Are you serious in saying you can de restrict the controller and go faster than 28MPH? Can you touch that speed for a moment but then the battery shuts down? Do you understand burst battery Amperage as opposed to continuous draw Amperage? Is this a 3000watt hub or a 5000watt hub? That is a very rare machine. Should we limit all cars to 70MPH? Someone realized long ago that having reserve power was a good thing and could prevent automobile accidents by allowing passing power or situational power to get out of the way of another vehicle to prevent a t bone or getting hit by a train. I like having the reserve power to cross a highway quickly for my own safety. It does not mean I drive my car at 120MPH because that's how fast my car can go. If my E bike goes (20MPH it's a fat tire) and I am passed by a road bike (pedal) going 30MPH where are you drawing the lines? Am I going too fast because I have an electric assist? The rules don't apply to a (pedal) road bike? I rode a road bike faster at age 13 than my e bike goes right now. I did push a 56/13 on a very nice bike and did 64 mile rides. In Poland are Road bike speeds limited to 15MPH? I've said it before will the Tour de France be speed limited this year? We have different laws for different groups again? Will the yellow jersey be in the correct political group? Most of the E bikes I see have Fat tires and high rolling resistance. You then need to factor in wind resistance as NO one is drafting on an E bike. A dyno test is an utterly ridiculous method of testing speed for a fat tire bike. I believe if a limiter (usually a blue wire on a controller) is in place the limit is 16-17MPH. This brings the bike into compliance with U.S law not 28MPH as the above posting sites. Has anyone seen an E road bike? Also don't confuse KPH with MPH just to attract attention to your cause.

I'm not going to read that giant block of text.

I had a Globe Haul which hit 28 mph with ease. Revv1, Super 73, etc. etc. can be unlocked by selecting "off road mode."

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Even our cows have right of way on some roads!

"Cows. Murderous beasts!" Remember David Berry?