Drivetrain longevity on 2023 Surface 604 V Rook

[fooferdoggie]

I might agree with it being harder to hold, but not on the other points. It's good that there are different high quality products for us to choose from!

I liked it but it was just a hassle. the parks gets degreaser all over the drivetrain then when I run water in it it's all pretty clean. I have used the stuff with a tube to clean a new chain and parts often. plus with the tandem you have almost 3 chains to clean so 4 chains to clean it does not last.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

With the 12-42 rear, would you go back to the 42T front chainring?

Yes, one fix would be to return the 38t Wolf Tooth and reinstall the unworn stock 42t steel chainring I kept. The added weight's a non-issue.

With a 12-42t cassette (if that's what I have now), 42t up front would give a near-perfect exponential spread from 27.5" to 96.3". If the cassette's 11-42t instead, I'd have a less useful 105" top gear but a nice spread otherwise. Not big on going faster than 25-30 mph these days.

 

[mschwett]

i have a similar riding climate to yours - coastal fog and some windblown sand, although i'd never put my bike actually ON the beach. just a few yards from it! on both my mid-drive e-bike and my "just-a-bike" i seem to only get about 2,000 miles of chain life no matter how fancy the lube, how frequent the cleaning, how many magic chants or potions are invoked. running a chain past 2,000 miles resulted in a trashed/skipping 11t cog at around 2,500 miles. easily and cheaply replaced of course but odd. with a hub drive, your chain shouldn't be seeing any more stress than an acoustic bike - in fact, probably a lot less.

i'm not sure i'd chalk up your wear to a derailleur issue. i think you can't underestimate how hard coastal fog and sand is on the drivetrain. suggest a very dry lube or wax and lots of cleaning, with a cyclone or inundated off the bike. i go with the former every 100 miles or so, the latter every 1000.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

i have a similar riding climate to yours - coastal fog and some windblown sand, although i'd never put my bike actually ON the beach. just a few yards from it! ...

i'm not sure i'd chalk up your wear to a derailleur issue. i think you can't underestimate how hard coastal fog and sand is on the drivetrain.

Hard indeed. We're only 0.8 mi from the nearest surf and usually straight downwind. You should see the rust the moist salt air has already laid down on some of my non-stainless steel tools in just 6 months!

Recall that the old chain wasn't just stretched. It could be bent sideways into 2/3 of a circle! That's not typical chain wear. And the severe slop in the pantograph bearings has to be explained.

I think the salt and sand kicked off the failure cascade by damaging the pantograph bearings and chain simultaneously. Both have certainly had lots of exposure. After that, everything damaged everything else. Add in low Alivio component quality, lots of short, steep hills and my strong PAS 1/9 habit, and you have a recipe for early drivetrain demise.

Everybody said my hub drive should be easy on the drivetrain, but here we are.

 

[DaveMatthews]

There is a big difference (obvs) between the hub and mid drive. Mid drives can be harder on the drive.
That said, my son has a 2022 Giant Talon E, and I have a 2021 Giant Stance E. Both are mid/entry level.
My son has half the mileage I do but has twice the wear (or more) on his drivetrain.
We both took our bikes in for regular maintenance. He was told that he'll soon need chain/cassette replacement. Mine is still in excellent condition.
Difference?
My son rides with a higher assist level, and a lower cadence than I do. I am more of a high cadence/low assist level rider.
Also, I am anal retentive about NOT shifting under power.
I now have over 3700kms on the drive and it shows no sign of needing replacement. My son will need replacement at half that.
Riding style is a large contributor IMHO.

 

[fooferdoggie]

There is a big difference (obvs) between the hub and mid drive. Mid drives can be harder on the drive.
That said, my son has a 2022 Giant Talon E, and I have a 2021 Giant Stance E. Both are mid/entry level.
My son has half the mileage I do but has twice the wear (or more) on his drivetrain.
We both took our bikes in for regular maintenance. He was told that he'll soon need chain/cassette replacement. Mine is still in excellent condition.
Difference?
My son rides with a higher assist level, and a lower cadence than I do. I am more of a high cadence/low assist level rider.
Also, I am anal retentive about NOT shifting under power.
I now have over 3700kms on the drive and it shows no sign of needing replacement. My son will need replacement at half that.
Riding style is a large contributor IMHO.

ye pI go through chains but not the drivetrain parts. though on our mid drive tandem it is eating the 13t cog. the first one lasted for around 5000 miles the last two have only lasted another 5000 or so miles. thats the cog on flats we pulse the most but the motor is right at the cutoff point and not doing much.

 

[DaveMatthews]

ye pI go through chains but not the drivetrain parts. though on our mid drive tandem it is eating the 13t cog. the first one lasted for around 5000 miles the last two have only lasted another 5000 or so miles. thats the cog on flats we pulse the most but the motor is right at the cutoff point and not doing much.

I can imagine the extra weight of tandem plus riders is harder on the drivetrain than anything else.
5000 miles is impressive!

 

[fooferdoggie]

I can imagine the extra weight of tandem plus riders is harder on the drivetrain than anything else.
5000 miles is impressive!

ya but the last one maybe 2000 miles or actually less I think it may have been more like 1000 but its only a 13.00 fix. this time I bought 3 cogs.

 

[DaveMatthews]

Forgot to mention I'm still running the stock KMC e.10 Sport, e-bike optimized chain, and Shimano Deore, 10-Speed, Shadow+ system.
Also I have the bikes up on a work stand and use the aforementioned Park Tool cleaner along with Squirt Wax lube.
Seems to work nicely.

 

[smorgasbord]

I liked it but it was just a hassle. the parks gets degreaser all over the drivetrain then when I run water in it it's all pretty clean. I have used the stuff with a tube to clean a new chain and parts often. plus with the tandem you have almost 3 chains to clean so 4 chains to clean it does not last.

Again, different strokes for different folks. I like that the Clean Streak doesn't need to be rinsed with water afterwards. I haven't done a cost analysis of the Clean Streak cans versus the Park tool degreaser bottles.

 

[fooferdoggie]

Again, different strokes for different folks. I like that the Clean Streak doesn't need to be rinsed with water afterwards. I haven't done a cost analysis of the Clean Streak cans versus the Park tool degreaser bottles.

a gallon of degreaser is around 15.00

 

[smorgasbord]

a gallon of degreaser is around 15.00

Not the Park Tool brand degreaser - that’s $17 a pint.

 

[fooferdoggie]

Not the Park Tool brand degreaser - that’s $17 a pint.

thats why I dont buy it. any water based degreaser works well.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

There is a big difference (obvs) between the hub and mid drive. Mid drives can be harder on the drive.
That said, my son has a 2022 Giant Talon E, and I have a 2021 Giant Stance E. Both are mid/entry level.
My son has half the mileage I do but has twice the wear (or more) on his drivetrain....
Difference?
My son rides with a higher assist level, and a lower cadence than I do. I am more of a high cadence/low assist level rider.
Also, I am anal retentive about NOT shifting under power....
Riding style is a large contributor IMHO.

Agree. Definitely going to ease up on chain tension with every shift under load from now on.

LBS mechanic told me that my drivetrain would last longer if I used more assist and less pedal force on steep hills. Makes some sense with my hub drive, but that's not how I roll. I'll continue to use the gears to maintain preferred cadence and assist (80 RPM and 1/9, resp.) whenever possible and hope that the new, improved drivetrain is up to the task.

 

[fooferdoggie]

Agree. Definitely going to ease up on chain tension with every shift under load from now on.

LBS mechanic told me that my drivetrain would last longer if I used more assist and less pedal force on steep hills. Makes some sense with my hub drive, but that's not how I roll. I'll continue to use the gears to maintain preferred cadence and assist (80 RPM and 1/9, resp.) and hope that the new, improved drivetrain is up to the task.

yes but not that much. I mean I peddle my brains out up hills. but ease up on shifting been doing that far before e-bikes and it always makes life better.

 

[teskow]

You answered your ow question. One word. SAND. You need an IGH with a belt drive.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

You answered your ow question. One word. SAND. You need an IGH with a belt drive.

No doubt a big factor, but other factors are probably also involved.

My beach-town LBS/dealer says I got a lot less drivetrain service life than most of their hub-drive customers. Also said that they probably use a lot more assist up our many hills.

Belt and IGH definitely make a lot of sense in this Land of Sand. So I showed your post to my wife. She said, "Dream on."

 

[PedalUma]

Here is a gold half-link BMX style chain that has been stripped of all shipping oils and in a plastic peanut butter jar filled with dry lube an aqueous nano-wax emulsion that does not attract any grit when air dried. It was shaken many times and soaked for five-hours. Any off-the-shelf chain, no matter the price, will attract sand and grit, killing the drivetrain prematurely. Oil is the chain smoker who died.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

Here is a gold half-link BMX style chain that has been stripped of all shipping oils and in a plastic peanut butter jar filled with dry lube an aqueous nano-wax emulsion that does not attract any grit when air dried. It was shaken many times and soaked for five-hours. Any off-the-shelf chain, no matter the price, will attract sand and grit, killing the drivetrain prematurely. Oil is the chain smoker who died.
View attachment 152708

Thanks! Guessing this is what happens next...

Spoke with Taylor. She was unaware that you can also shake things ON. Look for the follow-up video.