CrossCurrent S - New Model

That seems odd to me. If you're saying that 7.5mph for 2 hours drains your battery to empty then I'd say you have a battery or charger issue. Or you're climbing mountains in Colorado with throttle only.

I'm in Texas on flat ground and weigh 150lbs but here's my stats on the 12.8. 19 miles @18mph avg all in eco used 2.9Ah, 17 miles @22mph avg all in #1 Boost used 4.3Ah, 17 miles @24mph avg all in #2 Boost used 5.3Ah, 9 miles @27mph avg all in S Boost used 4Ah, and 29 miles @21mph avg in 1/2 eco and 1/2 #1 Boost used 7Ah. By my estimate I should be able to ride ~80 miles at 18mph avg in all eco mode on a full battery. Hardly a toy to me.

Im saying that if you are 225 lbs looking to commute 20mi at power assist 2-3 in hilly terrain on a single charge, upgrade to the 17ah battery. I've given a real world account of usable miles with out motor cutout. Your theoretical stats are not very applicable to the proposition. Eco mode at 18mph is toy mode for the bike. Best for niche market
 
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Im saying that if you are 225 lbs looking to commute 20mi at power assist 2-3 in hilly terrain on a single charge, upgrade to the 17ah battery. I've given a real world account of usable miles with out motor cutout. Your theoretical stats are not very applicable to the proposition. Eco mode at 18mph is toy mode for the bike. Best for niche market

My experience with the original Cross Current on the 10.4Ah battery is similar to yours. I could drain the battery completely in 45 minutes on the top assist level. Figure 30-35Wh/mi. cruising at 25-28mph and you can see that 600Wh to go 22 miles is basically 100% DOD every day. And the bike gets a lot less fun to ride once you get to the last 25% of battery or so. It starts to really struggle going up hills. The 17.4aH battery charged to 80% once per day should handle that commute fine and last several years.
 
My bad, I must be niche then. I always ride eco boost, 18-20 is plenty fast for me. I have a 21Ah battery too so I don't disagree with you both that having the bigger batteries is never a negative. Just seems like if guys want to go 30+ mph for 30+ mile commutes then it's not that the bike is a toy with a 12.8, it seems like they'd need something gas powered instead like an actual moped.
 
My bad, I must be niche then. I always ride eco boost, 18-20 is plenty fast for me. I have a 21Ah battery too so I don't disagree with you both that having the bigger batteries is never a negative. Just seems like if guys want to go 30+ mph for 30+ mile commutes then it's not that the bike is a toy with a 12.8, it seems like they'd need something gas powered instead like an actual moped.

Again, The question was should OP upgrade to a 17.4ah if they want to travel at assist level 3, with a 20mi commute, on hilly terrain with a single charge? The OP is not on flat land texas or throttle in the mountains of Colorado. Neither is the OP trying to travel 30+ mi at 30mph. Because you seem to be in a situation that is perfect conditions for an ebike (and not your exaggerated examples) doesn't make it universally applicable. Taking into factors that the battery should be charged ~85% and the motor starts to sputter under 30%, during real world performance, I suggest OP buy a 17.4ah battery for that situation. My situation also warrants a 17.4ah (21ah can't fit in s/t). I am considering a 17.4 battery and an 8.8ah backup. I'd carry the 8.8ah instead of a charger on longer rides and can be swapped out for the home stretch or errands with less bulk. Lots of local rides are atleast 20mi round trip through terrain, which I wouldn't feel confident doing on a 12.8ah battery. What made you go for the CC-S over the CC Air or light bicycle if you are always in eco boost?

Niche isn't bad, toys aren't just for kids, like supercars or 3d printers. CC-S is still probably the best sub $3k ebike but there are grey areas in the market as well. Are e-bikes bulky overpowered bicycles, slimmed down under-powered motorcycles, gas alternative, all terrain or road, etc? My state won't all ow me be register as a bicycle because it has motor assistance, and can't be a moped because it has pedal assist. Battery/mileage is always a limiting factor whether phones or teslas. I would compare Cross Current to the iPhone, the Cross Current S to the iPhone 3g, and hopefully the Cross Current 2020 will be the iPhone 4s. Advancements from CC -> CC-s, seeing prices for battery packs increase in size and decrease in price, and even kickstarter (see: delfast bikes), are encouraging but I don't think you could convince a college student to buy an CC-S over a beater car or moped.
 
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I still agree with the recommendation that bigger is better for battery. I've found that the "sputtering" at lower voltages can be somewhat avoided by lowering the cutoff voltage in the LCD settings. I had it maxed at 43 volts and it would start being jumpy around 45 volts already. If I turn it down to 40 or 39 but still stop riding around 43 on my own it seems to get rid of all of that low juice jumpiness.
There's a lot of reasons to go for the S over the Air: Advanced LCD, torque sensor, hydraulic brakes, front suspension. But mostly because I only paid $1300 for the S made it the best deal for me.
 
Thanks everyone for all the input. I actually went ahead and experimented today with my wife's CrossCurrent Air, the 500W version with the 7.8ah battery. The route I took was slightly longer than what I would usually do (12 miles instead of 11), maybe slightly hillier also. I started with a full charge, riding in Assist Mode 1 except when going uphill I would put it into Sport Mode. By the time I got to my destination, there was about 30 percent left, and the motor was starting to struggle a bit in the last mile or so.

Given the 17.4ah is more than twice the capacity, that probably means it will be plenty for my 22 mile round trip. 12.4 would definitely need to be topped off during the day. So it looks like the 17.4ah battery is a must for me, as most of you were suggesting.

Thanks again!
 
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Again, The question was should OP upgrade to a 17.4ah if they want to travel at assist level 3, with a 20mi commute, on hilly terrain with a single charge? The OP is not on flat land texas or throttle in the mountains of Colorado. Neither is the OP trying to travel 30+ mi at 30mph. Because you seem to be in a situation that is perfect conditions for an ebike (and not your exaggerated examples) doesn't make it universally applicable. Taking into factors that the battery should be charged ~85% and the motor starts to sputter under 30%, during real world performance, I suggest OP buy a 17.4ah battery for that situation. My situation also warrants a 17.4ah (21ah can't fit in s/t). I am considering a 17.4 battery and an 8.8ah backup. I'd carry the 8.8ah instead of a charger on longer rides and can be swapped out for the home stretch or errands with less bulk. Lots of local rides are atleast 20mi round trip through terrain, which I wouldn't feel confident doing on a 12.8ah battery. What made you go for the CC-S over the CC Air or light bicycle if you are always in eco boost?

Niche isn't bad, toys aren't just for kids, like supercars or 3d printers. CC-S is still probably the best sub $3k ebike but there are grey areas in the market as well. Are e-bikes bulky overpowered bicycles, slimmed down under-powered motorcycles, gas alternative, all terrain or road, etc? My state won't all ow me be register as a bicycle because it has motor assistance, and can't be a moped because it has pedal assist. Battery/mileage is always a limiting factor whether phones or teslas. I would compare Cross Current to the iPhone, the Cross Current S to the iPhone 3g, and hopefully the Cross Current 2020 will be the iPhone 4s. Advancements from CC -> CC-s, seeing prices for battery packs increase in size and decrease in price, and even kickstarter (see: delfast bikes), are encouraging but I don't think you could convince a college student to buy an CC-S over a beater car or moped.
Definitely the bigger the better but there is no reason in the world a battery this size should cost $1000 besides greed, Luna has proven that. You can buy a high quality 17 ah battery from them for just about half that, a little more but not much and there's something wrong with that picture.
 
The 17.4Ah battery is a $299 upgrade charge on the Cross Current S.
Try to buy an extra, $999. That's ridiculous for a 17ah freaking battery and that is where they get ya but fortunately for someone that can do the work all you need is the case. For the rest, they got ya.
 
Try to buy an extra, $999. That's ridiculous for a 17ah freaking battery and that is where they get ya but fortunately for someone that can do the work all you need is the case. For the rest, they got ya.

Where can you do better? It's not a 17AH battery like a power bank that has a few tens of watt hours, it has 78 18650 cells in it and over 800WH. You can get something similar from Luna for about $650 shipped: (Link Removed - No Longer Exists) but it can't deliver as much current, doesn't come with a warranty, and comes with bare wires on the end. This is close to rock bottom from a large domestic seller.
  • You will pay even more than this for a 300-400WH replacement battery (!) for a Trek or Specialized.
  • From another small manufacturer, you can get a 550wh battery for $500 (https://www.radpowerbikes.com/products/radrover-battery-pack). Juiced does 420WH for $400 or 610WH for $600, i.e., everyone's about a buck a WH.
  • The big ones from Juiced do cost more per WH. Panasonic 18650s aren't cheap, shipping Li Ion batteries aren't cheap, and engineering isn't cheap either. The big batteries have machined cases that the CNC'ed parts of the frame were engineered around. They tooled their own injection molded parts. Do you notice how every "shark" or "dolphin" pack looks the same? Whatever engineering costs there were for the case were paid for long ago.
Juiced seems to have attracted some customers from a niche where they see the value in more power/upgrades beyond what's available on the low end or bike shop bikes, but don't want to get into DIY. If it drives you insane that the $1000 battery only has $300 or $400 worth of cells in it, or that you're paying some employee's salaries, rent for the buildings, R&D costs - you are welcome to DIY. To be clear - I've been extremely frustrated with Juiced at times and think they really need to improve with customer service - but suggesting they are somehow gouging on these is crazy. Their prices for standard sized packs are pretty much in line with this end of the industry (not surprising, given that most of these are commodity chinese cases and manufacturing and Japanese cells). The big ones cost more, but they designed their own case and handled all the chinese manufacturing on a brand new product. If you don't see the value in it - maybe a hobbyist bike like they build over at Endless Sphere is a better fit for you. The performance on them can exceed anything Juiced or any non-bespoke manufacturer offers - you're just taking on all the R&D, safety, dealing with China, etc., costs yourself.
 
Where can you do better? It's not a 17AH battery like a power bank that has a few tens of watt hours, it has 78 18650 cells in it and over 800WH. You can get something similar from Luna for about $650 shipped: (Link Removed - No Longer Exists) but it can't deliver as much current, doesn't come with a warranty, and comes with bare wires on the end. This is close to rock bottom from a large domestic seller.
  • You will pay even more than this for a 300-400WH replacement battery (!) for a Trek or Specialized.
  • From another small manufacturer, you can get a 550wh battery for $500 (https://www.radpowerbikes.com/products/radrover-battery-pack). Juiced does 420WH for $400 or 610WH for $600, i.e., everyone's about a buck a WH.
  • The big ones from Juiced do cost more per WH. Panasonic 18650s aren't cheap, shipping Li Ion batteries aren't cheap, and engineering isn't cheap either. The big batteries have machined cases that the CNC'ed parts of the frame were engineered around. They tooled their own injection molded parts. Do you notice how every "shark" or "dolphin" pack looks the same? Whatever engineering costs there were for the case were paid for long ago.
Juiced seems to have attracted some customers from a niche where they see the value in more power/upgrades beyond what's available on the low end or bike shop bikes, but don't want to get into DIY. If it drives you insane that the $1000 battery only has $300 or $400 worth of cells in it, or that you're paying some employee's salaries, rent for the buildings, R&D costs - you are welcome to DIY. To be clear - I've been extremely frustrated with Juiced at times and think they really need to improve with customer service - but suggesting they are somehow gouging on these is crazy. Their prices for standard sized packs are pretty much in line with this end of the industry (not surprising, given that most of these are commodity chinese cases and manufacturing and Japanese cells). The big ones cost more, but they designed their own case and handled all the chinese manufacturing on a brand new product. If you don't see the value in it - maybe a hobbyist bike like they build over at Endless Sphere is a better fit for you. The performance on them can exceed anything Juiced or any non-bespoke manufacturer offers - you're just taking on all the R&D, safety, dealing with China, etc., costs yourself.
Yep, for about $600 you can get the battery with 65 Panasonic ga cells which are some of the best out there , that's a deal but I will build it myself.
 
Yep, for about $600 you can get the battery with 65 Panasonic ga cells which are some of the best out there , that's a deal but I will build it myself.
And to be clear, I know a lot of work goes into them big packs and don't have a problem with juiced bike's, I have the ocean current and I love it but I would love it a lot more with a few upgrades. When I am done with it, it will be one of a kind.
 
Speaking of batteries, can anyone post a picture of their bike with the 17.4 ah battery? Preferably size XL (which is what I have on order). Just want to see how much space the battery takes up in the frame.
 
Speaking of batteries, can anyone post a picture of their bike with the 17.4 ah battery? Preferably size XL (which is what I have on order). Just want to see how much space the battery takes up in the frame.

This is an L frame with the 17.4 Ah battery.
 

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