Creo SL vs Vado SL

[Stefan Mikes]

yes, quite a bit. to get lower you have to reach further, assuming your elbows are in line with your shoulders and not sticking out like big air brakes

Why do you think I installed Innerbarends on my both Spec e-bikes?

 

[jodi2]

I ride a Creo Comp Carbon for longer rides at the weekend and a Vado SL 4.0 EW for shorter rides during the week (shopping in the next city, etc.).
As we are under the 25km/h limit here in Germany, the difference between the two for ME is quite big. If it's flat, I ride the Creo mostly over 25km/h (so without motor support) and without too much effort. So I only need the motor in the mountains and for longer tours. For shorter rides during the week or shopping the Creo isn't really necessary and also too expensive/too notorious and also not equipped like the EQ Vados. Even the Vado SL's motor is also not really necessary for my short flat weekday rides here. But it was a real bargain and my old bike for normal use was damaged.

The main disadvantage of MY Vado SL with 25km/h limit is, that I often stay below 25/26km/h to get motor support: I can pass the 25km/h if it's flat, but it needs noticeably more effort than with the Creo with the race bars. So I'm more often lazy with the Vado SL, my own effort is much lower and battery consumption much higher (maybe 2x) than with the Creo. But I'm also more often with normal/less sportive clothes.
So Creo is my sports bike for longer rides, Vado SL EQ my allday bike.
For riders on a fitness different level this will differ, a weaker rider passes the 25km/h limit less often, a stronger rider can ride also the Vado SL without much sweat all day long over 25km/h. And in other continents without the 25km/h limit, with 28mph or already with 20mph limit, the difference would be less important. The Creo would still be a little bit faster (or consume less battery at the same speed) but there would be no fixed limit where you reduce you own effort to still get motor support.

The second big difference between the two is futureshock. The Vado SL 4.0 is one of the stiffest bike I know and futurshock (even 1.5) makes a huge difference and also suspension stems do not offer the same comfort (even if Stefan will not agree... ;-) ).
So long story short: With a Vado 5.0 with 28mph limit there is not so much need to change to a Creo. You can do it if you really often ride longer tours and you like race bars. But just for once in a while it would be luxury.

 

[Te. S]

it is interesting how much the geometry of the frame varies for the two bikes. not surprising i suppose since they have different intended purposes, but remember that in many ways they're very similar. same motor, same battery, same wheels, 1x drivetrains, same frame material and basic configuration.

the photos (or renderings?) on the specialized site are quite undistorted, and a quick overlay in photoshop confirms that both are taken/rendered of a size medium bike. measured dimensions are within a half a percent of the predicted values, based on the known 622mm outer diameter of the wheels.

the vado is much longer, and the riding position relative to the front tire is much further back. of course stems and seats can be adjusted to reduce this difference, but fundamentally the frame is balanced around a different riding position. overlaid together, we see that every element of the frame is slightly different, most notably the distance from the crank to the front axle, which then triggers or is caused by different angles of the top and downtube, head tube, etc. it all makes sense given the nature of drop bars and flat bars, long road or gravel rides vs multipurpose riding, etc. one could outfit the vado with a zero offset seatpost, slide the seat forward, get a very long stem, and flip it upside down to start to bring the riding position closer to the creo (or vice versa!) but the fundamental handling characteristics driven by the wheelbase and head tube angles won't be changed by that.

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this is really cool I see that you used the front fork and the wheel axel can you do a comparison picture of the two bikes by lining them up by the seat down tube and motor just to see i knew the measurements do not change appreciated
Creo is lowerd and compact riding position for more of aerodynamics and handling

 

[Rollegourmet]

So I try the creo SL, medium size like my Vado SL and it was uncomfortable.
Then I try the diverge expert carbon and it was great, comfortable, easy to ride. I even try the diverge sport carbon, same very good.
I really want an electric road or gravel bike so what do I do now? Any advice?
I m not good at riding bicycle, I get tired fast that is why, I like the electric, the engine give me more support, more help.

 

[gpburdell]

this is really cool I see that you used the front fork and the wheel axel can you do a comparison picture of the two bikes by lining them up by the seat down tube and motor just to see i knew the measurements do not change appreciated
Creo is lowerd and compact riding position for more of aerodynamics and handling

Published geometry is pretty close - 73.5º seat tube angle and 70mm BB drop on the Vado SL for all sizes, and the Creo SL has 74º to 73º seat tube angle and 80.5mm to 75.5mm BB drop depending on size.

So - seat tube angle is nearly the same, and the motor may up to 1cm lower relative to the axles on the Creo vs Vado SL. Seat to BB (motor) distance will depend on seat height which is set to fit the rider. Not sure that's all that much an indicator of being lower enough to matter.

Perhaps the better metric is Stack - ranging from 595mm to 696mm on the Vado SL and 575mm to 675mm on the Creo. Comparing the size medium models, the Vado's 626mm stack will give a more upright seating position than the Creo's 592mm, though this also doesn't account for the significant impact of different stem length/rise nor differences in flatbar sweep/rise vs dropbar hand position on the hoods. The riding positions are sufficiently different that I wouldn't assume the same frame size to give an equivalent comfort level without some additional tweaking. Especially if the rider isn't used to the body
positioning of a drop bar bike.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

So I try the creo SL, medium size like my Vado SL and it was uncomfortable.

Any chance to try the size S?

 

[Rollegourmet]

Ok… i m going to try size S. Thank you.

 

[mschwett]

So I try the creo SL, medium size like my Vado SL and it was uncomfortable.
Then I try the diverge expert carbon and it was great, comfortable, easy to ride. I even try the diverge sport carbon, same very good.
I really want an electric road or gravel bike so what do I do now? Any advice?
I m not good at riding bicycle, I get tired fast that is why, I like the electric, the engine give me more support, more help.

what size diverge did you ride? in what way was it more comfortable?

 

[Rollegourmet]

It was the 54.
It was easier to lay down on the bike, like in a aerodynamics position. It felt great, like able to get some speed and to brake easy, being in control.
After I ride the Creo, my back was hurting and it was hard to position my hands, I was not in control of the bike. I had to stand up.
So maybe, it was the wrong size. Maybe it need adjustment. I have no clue.
The salesman told me, those 2 bikes have different geometry.
The problem is I never rode a road bike before.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

After I ride the Creo, my back was hurting and it was hard to position my hands, I was not in control of the bike. I had to stand up.

The problem is I never rode a road bike before.

The same experiences as mine!

I suggested the size S because my gravel club buddies always say "if you ride a hybrid bike in given size, select the next smaller size for a gravel bike".

 

[mschwett]

It was the 54.
It was easier to lay down on the bike, like in a aerodynamics position. It felt great, like able to get some speed and to brake easy, being in control.
After I ride the Creo, my back was hurting and it was hard to position my hands, I was not in control of the bike. I had to stand up.
So maybe, it was the wrong size. Maybe it need adjustment. I have no clue.
The salesman told me, those 2 bikes have different geometry.
The problem is I never rode a road bike before.

that doesn't make a lot of sense. when you put the bikes next to each other, were the seat and bars in approximately the same position? the stack (vertical distance from crank to bars) and reach (horizontal distance from crank to bars) on a 54 diverge and M creo are within millimeters of each other. you should easily be able to adjust the seatpost, saddle rails, stem, bars, and hoods to literally have exactly the same relationship on those two bikes. which creo were you riding? one of the carbon ones, i assume? otherwise the comparison to a carbon diverge will bring in a lot of other differences...

the seat tube angle is a scant half a degree different. they're really very similar, with the major difference being the angle of the fork and wheelbase.

 

[Rollegourmet]

It was a Creo SL E5 and diverge expert carbon.
I m going to go back to the dealership and compare side by side. I really want the electric one. Thank you.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

It was a Creo SL E5 and diverge expert carbon.
I m going to go back to the dealership and compare side by side. I really want the electric one. Thank you.

After I returned from my Creo SL E5 size M demo ride (35 miles), the friendly LBS man asked how I liked the ride. I made a sad face and told him Creo SL was not for me and I felt really exhausted and sore. Perhaps one of the reasons was I was riding a road bike for the last time 25 years before (and that was an old type of a road bike even at that time).

 

[mschwett]

It was a Creo SL E5 and diverge expert carbon.
I m going to go back to the dealership and compare side by side. I really want the electric one. Thank you.

ride a creo sl comp carbon, and have them adjust the seat and bars to match the relative positions to the crank of the diverge you rode.

the dampening characteristics of the carbon frame can't be understated - especially on an electric bike, whose frame tubes are huge in diameter compared to a traditional bike.

 

[Rollegourmet]

ride a creo sl comp carbon, and have them adjust the seat and bars to match the relative positions to the crank of the diverge you rode.

the dampening characteristics of the carbon frame can't be understated - especially on an electric bike, whose frame tubes are huge in diameter compared to a traditional bike.

Ok. I will do that. Thank you.

 

[gpburdell]

Ok. I will do that. Thank you.

Also ask about the tire pressure, it’s not uncommon for tires to be way overinflated resulting in a hard ride. Particularly with the E5 coming with 28mm tires vs the Diverge Sport Carbon’s 42mm tires.

 

[Allan47.7339]

it is interesting how much the geometry of the frame varies for the two bikes. not surprising i suppose since they have different intended purposes, but remember that in many ways they're very similar. same motor, same battery, same wheels, 1x drivetrains, same frame material and basic configuration.

the photos (or renderings?) on the specialized site are quite undistorted, and a quick overlay in photoshop confirms that both are taken/rendered of a size medium bike. measured dimensions are within a half a percent of the predicted values, based on the known 622mm outer diameter of the wheels.

the vado is much longer, and the riding position relative to the front tire is much further back. of course stems and seats can be adjusted to reduce this difference, but fundamentally the frame is balanced around a different riding position. overlaid together, we see that every element of the frame is slightly different, most notably the distance from the crank to the front axle, which then triggers or is caused by different angles of the top and downtube, head tube, etc. it all makes sense given the nature of drop bars and flat bars, long road or gravel rides vs multipurpose riding, etc. one could outfit the vado with a zero offset seatpost, slide the seat forward, get a very long stem, and flip it upside down to start to bring the riding position closer to the creo (or vice versa!) but the fundamental handling characteristics driven by the wheelbase and head tube angles won't be changed by that.

Sorry I did not get back to this sooner. This is a great comparison. I would have used the motor as primary the datum. The rear derailleur mount is the secondary datum. The front front fork as used in days of old is a derived point and can be changed by swapping forks and is not a good datum to use. The same with the handle bar position. This all used to be much easier when you could assume the top tube was horizontal.

One of the more senior riders in our club showed up with his Creo switched to drop bars. I was busy with a large group and forgot to ask him about it. I will ask next time I see him.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

One of the more senior riders in our club showed up with his Creo switched to drop bars. I

A Vado SL?

 

[mschwett]

…
One of the more senior riders in our club showed up with his Creo switched to drop bars. I was busy with a large group and forgot to ask him about it. I will ask next time I see him.

i know a few people with conversions, all unsatisfied in one way or another. the reach is so different for a drop bar bike, you end up with a crazy short or crazy long stem, which really compound any issues you have with the stack.

 

[jodi2]

Same here. In a german forum I had contact with a LBS dealer with quite some experience in road bikes who was eager to convert his Vado SL to race bars. At the end he swapped the bike back to the original Vado SL parts and sold the race bike parts...

It's totally ok, if someone does not like/does not get used to road bikes/the race bar position at all. But I'm also surprised if someone feels good on a Diverge but bad on a Creo. Afaik they are quite similar or the Creo is even based on the Diverge. I also know quite some people who rides both, Diverge and Creo.

The carbon frame of the Creo is fantastic, but I don't think that just the frame material can make such a big difference. I never rode the alloy Creo, but I think with Futureshock it should not feel worse than an Vado SL also with alloy frame and Futureshock...