Creo SL Comp Carbon EVO vs SL Comp Carbon?

[arnoldc]

Another thing to remember is the Creo REQUIRES 70rpm cadence to produce full power. Lower cadence greatly reduces power. Unlike my Vado which has lots of low end grunt
<snip>

Technical materials say, SL 1.1 motor is optimized for 60-110 cadence. Looking at my Strava analysis, i was doing 43-68 cadence during the last 24 km climb that I did.

 

[MikeDee]

Specialized could allow more power on the climbs but chooses not to. The power is limited to match your output so even if the motor can output 240 watts, if you can produce a sustained 240 watts you won't get full power. If they changed the software to allow say 150% or 200% of the rider's power up hills then that would make a difference, but then of course the small battery would get drained really quickly.

I'm not sure I would like that kind of control system. I think I'd rather manually select the power output of the bike; or at least have the option to do so.

 

[Captain Slow]

Apparently I was wrong about it. I think Arnold knows how the software works better than I.

 

[StmbtDave]

The power is limited to match your output so even if the motor can output 240 watts, if you can produce a sustained 240 watts you won't WILL get full power.

As I understand it, I think this is what you meant to say. If you can't maintain 240 watts on your own, you will not see full power output from the motor. In full 100% mode, if you are only producing 200 watts then the motor will only add 200 watts. If Specialized offered a 150% power option then you would only have to give 160 watts to get the full 240 watts added from the motor. A 200% power option means you only have to give 120 watts to get full boost. If you give 200 watts you're still only going to get the 240 watts added from the motor. No matter how high you could set the boost % you're still only going to get a maximum of 240 watts.

 

[Captain Slow]

Yes, Dave thanks for clarifying.

That had been my understanding, but Arnold was indicating otherwise.

 

[e-levity]

There seems to be some confusion about how much power the Creo motor returns for a given rider input. When the motor power is set to 100% the motor will add 2X rider input. Thus you only need to put in 120 watts to get a full 240 watts from the motor. In this case total power (rider + motor) = 360W. Additional power must come from the rider.

At 50% max support you can get an additional 1X rider input. If the rider inputs 120W the motor will provide an additional 120W giving 240W total.

Here's a simple test you can carry out to convince yourself. You will need to be spinning at a reasonable riding cadence of about 80-100rpm.

1. Activate Mission Control on your phone and go to the LET'S RIDE icon.
2. Click on the STATS menu at the top and set two of the windows to report RIDER POWER and MOTOR POWER (just press and hold a window to see choices).
3. While riding compare the two readings with your Tune Settings.

 

[StmbtDave]

I’ve done exactly that, although I’ve never used the 100% setting. I have checked the Rider and Motor figures when riding in the 35% and the Motor power is 35% of the Rider power, not 70%. If I apply 200 watts, the Motor power is reported very close to 70 watts (200 x 0.35).

 

[e-levity]

Thanks for checking, StmbtDave. I have to say that I'm stunned! My conclusions were based on my experience with the Levo SL which has the same motor. Your results make it sound as if the Creo power assist may only be half that of the Levo SL despite using the same motor.

I went out and tested my Levo SL again with the same results. I had difficulty pedaling at low enough effort to get reliable power numbers with a 35/35 setting, but at 50/50 motor power was roughly equal to rider power (i.e., an additional 1X). At 100/100 motor power was twice rider power (i.e., an additional 2X). In fact when I put in 145W (or more) motor power registers as ~290W, a little more than the 240W claimed.

I was thinking about selling my Vado 6 to get a Creo SL. The power on the Creo I tested on a very short demo ride a few weeks ago seemed "OK", but I did not monitor power using Mission Control. I definitely will have to take my phone and check the Creo power output using Mission Control before making a purchase.

Edit: I now realize that StmbtDave only gave a single 35% number. I assume this refers to the Support Level used. What was the Peak Power setting? If PP was also set at 35% then the max motor power (PP) would be limited to about 84W (0.35x240W) regardless of rider input. Setting PP to 100% makes it easier to see how much rider power is multiplied.

 

[Captain Slow]

Oh, that makes a lot more sense now. My seat of the pants feeling matched what Dave was saying. I didn't know that you were using a Levo and not a Creo, so that makes a lot more sense. Having said that Arnold seems to agree with e-levity and he has a Creo.

 

[FlatSix911]

I am trying to decide between these bikes and hoping someone here can give me some input. I've ridden the Comp Carbon and it's a sweet ride indeed. At least 85% of my riding will be on pavement, and I mostly want an e-bike for longer rides, climbing and faster group rides, but I like the idea of having the flexibility to go confidently and comfortably off road as well. I know I can put wider tires on the Carbon Comp, but there are a few features of the EVO that sound like they would make it more gravel friendly, although I question whether I would pay a price for them on pavement performance. For instance, would the EVO feel the same standing up on a climb? I do know the EVO is a little heavier so I assume I would have to work a little harder or use more assist on the climbs (we have a lot of big climbs where I live in Utah) and presumably that in turn would affect the range of the battery. Has anyone ridden both that can comment? I can't find the EVO in my size at any LBS in my area so I can't try it myself. Thanks for your thoughts.

I you are riding 85% on roads, have you considered the Specialized Turbo Creo SL Expert instead of the Turbo Creo SL Comp Carbon EVO?

Specialized Turbo Creo SL Expert Review | ElectricBikeReview.com

Price: $9000.00 | Model Year: 2020 | A super-lightweight ~29lb full carbon electric road ebike, Class 3 speed-pedelec performance offers 28mph (45km/h) assisted speeds, proprietary Future Shock 2.0 steer tube suspension adds comfort while minimizing weight and maximizing rolling efficiency...

electricbikereview.com

Specialized Turbo Creo SL Comp Carbon EVO Review | ElectricBikeReview.com

Price: $6500.00 | Model Year: 2020 | A lightweight gravel grinder road ebike with flared handlebars, wide treaded tires, a seat post dropper, and unique Future Shock 2.0 steer tube suspension. Available in six frame sizes, sold through a vast network of dealers with professional fitting systems...

electricbikereview.com

 

[Deacon Blues]

I'm amazed at what a difference 3 or 4 pounds makes on the hills with this ebike.
I rode up a short but very steep hill on the aluminum model, then rode up the same hill on the SL Expert, which, I think, is about 3 to 4 pounds lighter than the aluminum model. The SL Expert felt noticeably faster up the hill.

 

[Captain Slow]

If 85% of your riding will be on the road then I'd say buy the model suited for that. I'm going to do some gravel rides and I'll just put on some wider tires. If I'm riding terrain that requires a dropper post then I'll take my mountain bike. There is the flared bars, but to me that's not enough to go for the EVO when 85% of your riding is on pavement.

 

[NBS]

Thanks guys. I went ahead and bought the Creo SL Comp carbon and have been riding it happily for the better part of a month now. I forgot I had posted this or would have updated, sorry. I didn’t want to spring for the $ to get the Expert. The ride quality and lighter weight of the carbon frame were the most important things to me. I can (and probably will) upgrade to a nicer set of wheels at some point, but I am very happy with this bike as it is right now. No problem at all getting up the climbs. I “feel” like I’m riding just normally, but getting up them a whole lot faster and enjoying them so much more.

 

[FlatSix911]

Congrats on your new Creo SL Comp Carbon... long may you ride!

 

[Captain Slow]

NBS, I would be very interested in the nicer set of wheels you upgrade to. Most road wheels these days either follow the old 100 QR/130 mm QR, or the newer cyclocross 100 QR/135 QR, or lately with disc brakes and gravel a 100 x 12/142 x 12 thru axle.

I have been wanting to get additional wheels for my Creo and the 110 x 12 thru axle on the front is proving to be a challenge. Finding a 148 x 12 in the rear isn't as bad since it's Boost spacing for mountain bikes these days, but you will generally end up with a fairly wide rim so maybe you'll find a rear wheel suitable for gravel, but it's harder to find something suited to road riding.

Short of getting custom set built, I'm not sure where you find after market wheels for the Creo. So very interested in the process you go through.

PS - Congratulations on the new bike.

 

[NBS]

Since you ask...my first thought was to use the front wheel from my Trek (Aeolus 3 TLR, disc with a through axle) and get the same rear wheel with a Creo appropriate cassette to make swapping between bikes easy. But that didn't work, when I lined up the rotor in the groove there was too much space between the right side and the fork for the through axle to reach (I used the Specialized axle per advice of my LBS; it fit fine but it wouldn't have mattered given the spacing problem). The Bontrager wheel that Trek puts on it's higher end Domane e-Bike, the Aeolus Pro 3V might work but, at appx the same $, the Roval C38 is the one Specialized puts on the Expert model and would certainly fit. My thinking is I can then put wider tires on this wheel set and then I will have a gravel version of the bike without having the hassle of changing tires back and forth. Voila! Two bikes for the price of... 1.25...(ish). How's that for a cost justification!

 

[StmbtDave]

Edit: I now realize that StmbtDave only gave a single 35% number. I assume this refers to the Support Level used. What was the Peak Power setting? If PP was also set at 35% then the max motor power (PP) would be limited to about 84W (0.35x240W) regardless of rider input. Setting PP to 100% makes it easier to see how much rider power is multiplied.

Your assumption was correct. I had my 3 levels set to 15/15, 35/35, 60/60.

I’m think I’m going to have to retract my statement on how the motor reacts to rider input.

Two days ago I rode one of my usual routes; 35 mile loop with 1,250’ elevation gain. I ride it almost exclusively in 15/15, going into 35/35 on two steep sections. Mission Control reported Avg Speed of 13mph, Total Consumption of 8.00wh and Avg Support Level of 3.34% - extremely efficient. Today I rode the same route, although in reverse, with my levels set to 15/100 and 35/100. I couldn’t believe the difference. I went into 35/100 twice (different direction = different climbs) with all the rest in 15/100. Mission Control today reported Avg Speed of 15mph, Total Consumption of 133.00wh, and Avg Support of 40.76. I also rode it 20 minutes faster. Unfortunately, yesterday I broke my phone mount so I couldn’t get readings of Rider Power verses Motor Power. I’ll get some readings when I can replace my phone mount but Mission Control reporting support at 41% when the vast majority of the ride was at 15% seems to say 15% isn’t 15%.

 

[NBS]

I also had another go at trying to figure this out mounting my phone on my bars while riding. At 35% support I saw motor power numbers close to 35% of rider power, as I expected. But at 50%, the two numbers were much closer to each other, as eLevity had suggested they would be. I didn't go into Turbo so I don't know what happens at 100%.

 

[sdbikegirl]

So I have the Comp Carbon Evo and upgraded to Di2 which I'm loving. However, I'm hearing a strange rattling noise that I cannot determine a source. Anyone else?

 

[Captain Slow]

So I have the Comp Carbon Evo and upgraded to Di2 which I'm loving. However, I'm hearing a strange rattling noise that I cannot determine a source. Anyone else?

I would think your bike is new enough that you should be able to take it back to the shop and have them diagnose it and fix it under warranty. How long have you had your bike?