Creo 2 Flat Bar Conversion
- Thread starter VadoSL
- Start date
Because it's owned by Pon who might not want it to compete with its Dutch brands or Cervelo?I wonder why Skitch cannot be bought in EuropeGuess with me.
Santa Cruz are very popular in UK.
zbikeman
New Member
- Region
- USA
The Skitch comes in two variants if memory serves - flat bar and drop bar. Both share the same geometry; only thing that changes is the component package.
Before my recent Vado SL 4.0 (gen 1) purchase, I was considering a Skitch, but a couple things stood out:
1. Expensive for what it is. Starts around USD $6000 and goes up from there.
2. Not really designed with accessories in mind - lacking attachment points. Not an issue for casual riders, but an impediment for those who want to commute etc.
Also need to consider the Fazua e-motor on the Skitch. Supposedly an innovative design, but repairability / reliability is unknown.
Before my recent Vado SL 4.0 (gen 1) purchase, I was considering a Skitch, but a couple things stood out:
1. Expensive for what it is. Starts around USD $6000 and goes up from there.
2. Not really designed with accessories in mind - lacking attachment points. Not an issue for casual riders, but an impediment for those who want to commute etc.
Also need to consider the Fazua e-motor on the Skitch. Supposedly an innovative design, but repairability / reliability is unknown.
Stefan Mikes
Gravel e-biker
- Region
- Europe
- City
- Mazovia, PL
I'd need to see the Skitch offered in the UK yet
Stefan Mikes
Gravel e-biker
- Region
- Europe
- City
- Mazovia, PL
Following that thought, you could have bought a Vado SL 4.0 and then convert it to the 5.0
zbikeman
New Member
- Region
- USA
Did a little research on the Fazua and came up with this (recent: 2024-present) 7-page, 193 post thread on an e-mtb forum:
www.emtbforums.com
I'll summarize: No bueno.
Motor failures seem to be common. Host of other problems, including abnormally high battery discharge when not in use.
The Fazua Ride60 motor was apparently used on some high-end bikes besides the Skitch, but probably the biggest one was the Pivot Shuttle SL.
One anecdotal mention of a dealer who carried the Pivot. He stopped carrying it and it was supposedly the only bike model he's had to refund.
Fazua also teased a range extender at the bike's launch, but then pivoted (ha!) and said they were dropping the RE in favor of increasing the current motor's reliability. Wow.
Fazua Ride 60. Yay or Nay? Reliability Improved?
Considering a Ride 60 equipped bike (latest motor). How is the reliability these days? I know there were a lot of problems in the past but have they improved? Would you buy again? My current bike is a Levo SL and the motor and electronics have given me some problems but nothing that left me...
www.emtbforums.com
I'll summarize: No bueno.
Motor failures seem to be common. Host of other problems, including abnormally high battery discharge when not in use.
The Fazua Ride60 motor was apparently used on some high-end bikes besides the Skitch, but probably the biggest one was the Pivot Shuttle SL.
One anecdotal mention of a dealer who carried the Pivot. He stopped carrying it and it was supposedly the only bike model he's had to refund.
Fazua also teased a range extender at the bike's launch, but then pivoted (ha!) and said they were dropping the RE in favor of increasing the current motor's reliability. Wow.
Stefan Mikes
Gravel e-biker
- Region
- Europe
- City
- Mazovia, PL
I cannot explain why Santa Cruz chose a fundamentally wrong design for the Skitch...
...but choosing the same frame for the flat and drop bar version has allowed the brand effortlessly (and cheaply) offer as many as eight configurations.
@VadoSL: That would be the fate of your Creo 2 if you converted it to the flat bar. Do you still think it would be such a great idea?
@stompandgo has bought a Pinarello Nytro E5 Allroad, a lightweight flat-bar e-bike with a TQ motor. Perhaps you could consider a Pinarello?
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stompandgo
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
I respect that this is a Specialized forum, but if you're going to allow detailed discussion of the Skitch, then here goes. My latest bike is a Pinarello Nytro E5 Allroad.
It is based on the Grevil E5 gravel frame. As such, it does not have road bike geometry, it has gravel geometry, which is a bit like a cross between road and MTB. Shorter top tube, relaxed angles, stiff bottom bracket but other areas built for comfort. The rack and fenders are SKS. Mine came with a MIK adapter which I switched out for Topeak. The lighting is Supernova. The drive unit is the TQ HPR50 with a 360Wh internal main battery. A 160Wh range extender is available. TQ has also had their fair share of motor failures, but they are honoring their warranty as far as I can see. Pinarello used to use the Fazua Ride60, but switched due to reliability issues and lack of support. The latest gaffe of promising a range extender for years, and then dropping it, notifying dealers and owners with a memo, should not give anyone confidence in the future of that platform.
You could turn a Creo into a bike like this, but it would cost you over $1,000. Not crazy money if you really love the bike, but not chump change, either.
It is based on the Grevil E5 gravel frame. As such, it does not have road bike geometry, it has gravel geometry, which is a bit like a cross between road and MTB. Shorter top tube, relaxed angles, stiff bottom bracket but other areas built for comfort. The rack and fenders are SKS. Mine came with a MIK adapter which I switched out for Topeak. The lighting is Supernova. The drive unit is the TQ HPR50 with a 360Wh internal main battery. A 160Wh range extender is available. TQ has also had their fair share of motor failures, but they are honoring their warranty as far as I can see. Pinarello used to use the Fazua Ride60, but switched due to reliability issues and lack of support. The latest gaffe of promising a range extender for years, and then dropping it, notifying dealers and owners with a memo, should not give anyone confidence in the future of that platform.
You could turn a Creo into a bike like this, but it would cost you over $1,000. Not crazy money if you really love the bike, but not chump change, either.
A quick look at geometry specs between the flat bar nitro E5 allroad and drop bar E9 gravel seem to indicate that the frames/geometries are the same for both flat and drop bars. I think the OP was just asking for how to convert rather than a discussion of pros and cons of conversion based on frame geometry but for those that argue conversion would create a hybrid mongrel Pinarello is another premium brand that apparently thinks otherwise.
stompandgo
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
Sorry, I wasn't referring to your post but to another poster who seems to think that flat bar and drop bar bikes must have different geometries otherwise the manufacturer is just cheap and trying to save money by slapping different type bars on the same frame - to which Pinarello and Santa Cruz (and probably other) premium bike manufacturers cleary disagree.
stompandgo
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
Agreed. The other side of your argument is for those that wish to convert a race bike to a flat bar bike and expect it to be comfortable. I've ridden a few of them, and that was not the case.
Stefan Mikes
Gravel e-biker
- Region
- Europe
- City
- Mazovia, PL
Right, there is a distinction between well thought out changes to make a bike more to the liking of the owner vs creating some sort of chimera. Drops to flats on the right frame (like the skitch and pinarello) seem more the former than the latter, depending on individual preferences.
Whenever this type of lightweight flat bar ebike or conversion comes up for discussion here it always seems to centre on Specialized (Vado SL or Creo conversion) or the Santa Cruz Skitch. But now with more lightweight motors out, there are more bikes to choose from like Stomp's Pinarello.
The Bosch SX also has a number of candidates & being Bosch has a strong reliability factor/warranty - this Cube (always exceptional value) seems a good example:
ebiketips.road.cc
Then there is the TQ of that Pinarello - they have the original TQ50 (This had issues but it looks like by solving the engineering with this motor, they've made all TQ motors more reliable) and the newer 60 & extremely lightweight 40, so new models are arriving all the time.
Quite hard to keep up! But great to have more options.
Fazua seem to be unable to stop the reliability issues which is a shame as they have been a very innovative company. Interesting that along with Mahle all the lightweight motor developments seem to be German engineering companies? But with DJI sweeping the EMTB world I'm sure Chinese lightweight motors/batteries will follow - though I wonder how big or small this lightweight sector of the ebike world is? Maybe not that big compared to full fat EMTBs.
The Bosch SX also has a number of candidates & being Bosch has a strong reliability factor/warranty - this Cube (always exceptional value) seems a good example:
Cube’s lightweight Bosch SX-powered Nulane Hybrid e-bike is a flat handlebar cousin of its Nuroad gravel bikes
Cube has announced its 2025 range of bikes and along with a few updates to old favourites like the Kathmandu Hybrid and Reaction Hybrid, there’s a new e-bike on offer – the Nulane Hybrid. We’ve often found much to admire in Cube’s e-bikes. Their trekking model, the Kathmandu Hybrid, has featured...
Then there is the TQ of that Pinarello - they have the original TQ50 (This had issues but it looks like by solving the engineering with this motor, they've made all TQ motors more reliable) and the newer 60 & extremely lightweight 40, so new models are arriving all the time.
Quite hard to keep up! But great to have more options.
Fazua seem to be unable to stop the reliability issues which is a shame as they have been a very innovative company. Interesting that along with Mahle all the lightweight motor developments seem to be German engineering companies? But with DJI sweeping the EMTB world I'm sure Chinese lightweight motors/batteries will follow - though I wonder how big or small this lightweight sector of the ebike world is? Maybe not that big compared to full fat EMTBs.
Jeremy McCreary
Bought it anyway
- Region
- USA
- City
- Carlsbad, CA
I'd still like an answer to my earlier question from our geometry experts:
Q1. Forgetting for a moment that the Creo 2 made its debut with drop bars, how far is it from an ideal flat-bar geometry?
Q2. Far enough for the sky to fall in after a flat-bar conversion?
Q3. Recall hearing that the Creo 2 frame has a gravel geometry, whatever that is. If so, does that help?
Q1. Forgetting for a moment that the Creo 2 made its debut with drop bars, how far is it from an ideal flat-bar geometry?
Q2. Far enough for the sky to fall in after a flat-bar conversion?
Q3. Recall hearing that the Creo 2 frame has a gravel geometry, whatever that is. If so, does that help?
Right. The answers could get very complicated and longwinded. So actually I'm not going to dig deep!
in a nutshell.
The gravel issue Q3 is not really the issue. Q1 Google AI puts it this way:
A drop bar bike generally has a shorter top tube than a flat bar bike to compensate for the extra forward reach of drop bars, allowing riders to maintain a comfortable position. If you were to fit drop bars to a flat bar frame without adjusting the top tube or stem length, you would likely feel too stretched out.
And visa versa...
It's just that a road bike designed for drops, tends to have a shorter top tube. If you then put flat bars on it, it changes the sizing and you might feel compressed with your hands on the bars much closer to your chest then when on the drops. That's the main thing. But the geo in general - race bikes are short wheelbase and with steep angles so the bike on the road is responsive and can turn on a dime. MTBs are longer for stability and with slack angles so gioing down a rough steep trail you don't go over the handlebars. Gravel is somewhere in between and today, in 2025 there are a hundred different gravel geometries from road like to mtb with drop handlebars depending on the type of gravel you ride and how fast you want to go etc.
Jeremy McCreary
Bought it anyway
- Region
- USA
- City
- Carlsbad, CA
Thanks! So flat-bar suitabiliy in a frame largely comes down to relative top tube length, head tube angle, and wheel base? If so, could someone please look at the Creo 2 frame and see how far off those specs really are for flat bars?
Creo 2 Comp
Remember, the OP wants to convert a Creo 2 — not a full-bore road bike, and not any old drop-bar bike. If gravel bikes are on the spectrum between drop-bar road bikes and flat-bar MTBs, then the Creo's probably on that spectrum, too. Where?
Remember also that we have at least 2 members with presumably successful Creo 2 conversions. One for sure said that he loved the result.
Thanks!
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Just look at the picture of that green Creo (lovely colour btw) and imagine flat bars where the stem ends. Now look at how far further forward the hoods are. Or the drops. The only way to be sure is to sit on a Creo and try both positions. Better still would be to swap out the drops and actually test ride flat bars.
It's a bit like tailoring a suit jacket. Measurements are designed on average arm length and reach. It's why bike fit (we're all different) is important. Changing the bars means compensating somewhere else. It might be fine or it might not.
Over the years I've been pondering the reverse. Putting drops on my Vado SL. The idea of ruining the comfortable position I have currently has always made me hesitate. That and the costs. I've measured the Vado SL against my drop bar bike (also very comfortable fit) to see the differences. I like drops and am tempted. Though recently, since the arrival of that Canyon Endurace ONfly with the TQ40 I'm thinking I just need to rob a local bank and make that baby mine 
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