My point is that people are not being forced to use less fuel. They are using less fuel because the price is high. Making simple changes like combining errands, driving slower, buying more fuel efficient cars when it's time are all things people should do no matter what the price of gas is simply because it's the right thing to do. It was high gas prices that killed the "muscle cars" in the 60's & 70's. It shouldn't have because the stupid things should never have been produced in the first place. One could go on and on like why do people need to go on vacation and bring their house with them. We're in this mess because people are greedy and careless and they need to change they way they live or they won't have a place to live.I was referring to the efforts to force people to use less fuel. I consider it to be drastic for the reasons I’ve already stated.
I’m all for making changes to prevent climate change, if those changes will bring significant improvement, and won’t hurt those with no voice. However, I don’t believe what is happening will do that. It’s just vote-getting presented as a (phony) solution, and I’ll be very surprised if it doesn’t backfire in the Fall elections. Maybe people WILL have a voice in the end.
Somebody will have to bring this thread up after the elections, to see how far off the mark I was.Hopefully I’m waayyy off about the effect on climate change.
Catalyzt
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
Still can't follow you. What efforts are being made to force people to use less fuel?I was referring to the efforts to force people to use less fuel. I consider it to be drastic for the reasons I’ve already stated.
I’m all for making changes to prevent climate change, if those changes will bring significant improvement, and won’t hurt those with no voice. However, I don’t believe what is happening will do that. It’s just vote-getting presented as a (phony) solution, and I’ll be very surprised if it doesn’t backfire in the Fall elections. Maybe people WILL have a voice in the end.
Somebody will have to bring this thread up after the elections, to see how far off the mark I was.
Not trolling you. I literally have no idea what you are talking about.
You can't mean the puny state and local regulations, or the minimal taxation we have on petrol.
US gas prices are extremely low by international standards, we're not even in the middle of the pack.
Gasoline prices around the world, 01-Jul-2024 | GlobalPetrolPrices.com
Gas prices by country using official data sources.
Also, when has conserving energy or green technology ever been a successful strategy for getting votes? Hey, I vote, and I vote as green as I can, but my candidates usually lose. BTW, if you mean that disenfranchised populations should have gas subsidies so they can work and be able to feed their families, you'll get no argument from me, and probably not from most other people posting here.
This thread is complaining about the grossly non-essential use of gasoline, e.g. "rolling coal." I would add street takeovers to that list.
FWIW, I agree that when we do attempt to regulate, we often get it wrong-- but this is generally due to incompetence more than candidates seeking political gain. The state of California has been trying to get me to get rid of my insanely efficient 55 MPG sports car for 10 or 15 years-- despite the fact that the carbon footprint of driving the car for over 30 years is way smaller than buying the over-engineered junkers that pass for 'fuel efficient' vehicles today.
It's a PITA, but when I actually get to the SMOG referee, they get it. It costs me an extra $300 or so every two years to keep the car on the road, but again, that's mostly an artifact of the fact that it's really hard to write good emission regs that are fair for everyone combined with general bureaucratic inefficiency that's as rampant in the private sector as it is in the public sector.
Mulezen
Well-Known Member
The elections of 2000 and 2016 are where we missed our chance to mitigate climate change. Big money (and Russ Limbaugh) turned climate change into a political football. The kids and grandkids will pay a huge price (existential) for our irresponsibility. Al Gore was pilloried for the Inconvenient truth. It grows harder as I grow older to suffer fools…
rayray
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
Taken at face value, I can’t argue with anything you’ve said except your first sentence. I agree 100% that people want too much, and we don’t need gas-guzzling toys. However, I do think people are forced by the administration to pay higher prices for gas, as pricing has been affected greatly by policy decisions, and many people must drive. I’d hate to be a trucker today, or for that a matter a financially struggling parent.
Your statement ignores the fact that many people are heavily impacted by rising fuel costs and it’s overall inflationary effects. If it only meant we had to be more selective in our pastime pursuits, perhaps it would all make sense. But that’s not the case, as many people will have to decide between transportation for work and things such as prescription medicines, quality foods, and a properly heated residence.
rayray
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
Still can't follow you. What efforts are being made to force people to use less fuel?
Not trolling you. I literally have no idea what you are talking about.
You can't mean the puny state and local regulations, or the minimal taxation we have on petrol.
US gas prices are extremely low by international standards, we're not even in the middle of the pack.
Gasoline prices around the world, 01-Jul-2024 | GlobalPetrolPrices.com
Gas prices by country using official data sources.www.globalpetrolprices.com
Also, when has conserving energy or green technology ever been a successful strategy for getting votes? Hey, I vote, and I vote as green as I can, but my candidates usually lose. BTW, if you mean that disenfranchised populations should have gas subsidies so they can work and be able to feed their families, you'll get no argument from me, and probably not from most other people posting here.
This thread is complaining about the grossly non-essential use of gasoline, e.g. "rolling coal." I would add street takeovers to that list.
FWIW, I agree that when we do attempt to regulate, we often get it wrong-- but this is generally due to incompetence more than candidates seeking political gain. The state of California has been trying to get me to get rid of my insanely efficient 55 MPG sports car for 10 or 15 years-- despite the fact that the carbon footprint of driving the car for over 30 years is way smaller than buying the over-engineered junkers that pass for 'fuel efficient' vehicles today.
It's a PITA, but when I actually get to the SMOG referee, they get it. It costs me an extra $300 or so every two years to keep the car on the road, but again, that's mostly an artifact of the fact that it's really hard to write good emission regs that are fair for everyone combined with general bureaucratic inefficiency that's as rampant in the private sector as it is in the public sector.
Not referring to puny state and local stuff, or direct taxation in fuel. It’s things like shutting down pipelines, limiting drilling and negotiating with Saudi Arabi for more oil. Why aren’t we instead boosting our own production?
You’re, correct, politicians with green agendas generally don’t do well. However there are some, and they have a loud voice. Other politicians who wish to remain in power must quiet them by agreeing to part of their agenda, and current policy meets them in the middle while attempting to fly under the radar.
Yes, climate change is a political football, but it’s also a complex issue with no perfect solution. After all, do we really thinking using less gasoline will have a large effect? It will probably remain a political football.
As to Al Gore, the man is a profiteer. He doesn’t care about climate change, unless he can sell pollution credits. The real inconvenient truth is that “An Inconvenient Truth” was an advertisement for his pollution credit brokerage. His net worth is now estimated to be over $300 Million USD. He feels no pain from high fuel costs, even when flying private and polluting the air.
PatriciaK
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Pacific Northwest and Piedmont Triad
That's not all of Washington State, just the western side. The eastern side, where the wheat and fruit and other crops are grown, is suffering a drought - moderate to severe, depending on the location, this year.
So, yes, we definitely have to worry!
rayray
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
You don’t think people must buy fuel? You don’t believe that shutting down pipelines and limiting drilling has an effect on pricing? Why is the President negotiating with the Saudi’s, when we could increase production here, which would drive down prices worldwide?
Let’s agree to disagree. I just wanted to converse a little on an interesting and important topic. I think I’m gonna climb out of the rabbit hole now, and go back to talking bike stuff.
Oh hell….unless I get drawn back in.
Mr. Coffee
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- A Demented Corner of the North Cascades
No. People always have choices. You could walk to the store, ride an e-bike, or take a bus. If you live someplace where that isn't practical you could move somewhere where it is. Choosing not to do those things is also a choice.You don’t think people must buy fuel? You don’t believe that shutting down pipelines and limiting drilling has an effect on pricing? Why is the President negotiating with the Saudi’s, when we could increase production here, which would drive down prices worldwide?
Let’s agree to disagree. I just wanted to converse a little on an interesting and important topic. I think I’m gonna climb out of the rabbit hole now, and go back to talking bike stuff.
Oh hell….unless I get drawn back in.
Most of the damage done in this current price drama was caused years ago. If you look at actual facts you'll know that US crude oil production has been declining since 2017. Which if I recall Joe wasn't president then...
PatriciaK
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Pacific Northwest and Piedmont Triad
rayray
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
You’re right, I over-simplified that and ignored an important fact. Truth is, I wasn’t up on the current status of the east side, and assumed they were getting some of this rain. No excuse, as I should have looked into it if I was going to make a blanket statement. Thank you for calling me out on it. I’ll strive to do better.
rayray
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
Ok, that’s one point of view, but how does it counter my position? I said it’s the cost of oil that is the issue, and this video essentially says the same. Does government control it? No, but their policies can affect it, as any interruption in supply will do.
I’m not arguing that it’s all on the government, but I don’t see any intelligent effort to do anything about it. Releasing a few days supply from the Strategic Oil Reserves is a joke. Negotiating with the Saudi’s is appeasement.. I’m no world politics guy though, so maybe it’s necessary for other reasons(?).
rayray
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
Just turned it on. The first thing I heard was the documentary filmmaker say something about “aggressive chanting”.
Now, having said that, please know that I feel the events of January 6th were horrible, and avoidable. But, they’ll never convict anybody of note, which is why they’re televising it with the help of a TV producer. They want to damage Trump and the Republican party in the court of public opinion.
In MY opinion, Trump didn’t CLEARLY cross the line into criminal territory, though he certainly danced next to it. I cringed as he was speaking that day, knowing many people would hear his words as encouragement to riot. But, I don’t think he’d be convicted in a court of law. It’s like Clinton telling the grand jury, “It depends on what the meaning of the word ‘is’ is.” Powerful people rarely go to prison.
Mulezen
Well-Known Member
I am watching it and once again am appalled and outraged…Proud Boys please…a club for boys to play with guns and insurrection. My neck of the country is full of these faux patriots…as some here have seen in my ride photos there are numerous flagpoles around here with the confederate flag next to the American. I have a delegate…John McGuire who paraded to the capitol and ran on it. Where is the patriotism In sedition? Yeah…I’m hot…people too lazy to engage their critical thinking and clinging to whatever the latest hate-filled fluff on Fox is…This Christian nationalism, the bigotry…the fear mongering, the dissolution of our democracy…it’s happening in real time…I have a red hat that says “Make Orwell Fiction Again”. Probably not in my lifetime
My DVR.
PedalUma
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Petaluma, CA
@Mulezen, I have two red hats that cost $1.00 each from a promotional place that was closing last month. I have no idea what to do with them. Infiltrate a hate group? If you like Orwell you will love Dave Eggers, 'The Every'. It takes place 30 minutes into the future. Dystopian was never so funny! There is even a Petaluma scene. Laugh your Adze off with that bus ride to see the elephant seals at Pt Reyes. A laugh a page and scary.
Mulezen
Well-Known Member
I had an acquaintance that once traveled to Petaluma to be on Wide World of sports at the arm wrestling championships. He made it to the finals where he beat a man fully twice his body weight for the championship. IDK why I mention it…just the sound of the town I guess. I should visit California…those seals will remind me of my last trip to Walmart
Mulezen
Well-Known Member
at the risk of drowning out my (supposed) audience
Name and Shame White Christian Nationalism, the Ideology Behind Jan. 6
Democrats should insist that Republicans denounce this racist, undemocratic ideology as a danger to our country—and to Americans’ safety.
www.thedailybeast.com
tomjasz
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Minnesnowta
Eating beef is unsustainable and adds a lot to the increase of climate change. Read, Diet for a Small Plant!