Chain ring tooth selection

[TS25]

I bet it is a torque wrench.
Please have a look in your Vado documentation. IIRC it is 50 Nm for the spider.

 

[bellandbottle]

I bet it is a torque wrench.
Please have a look in your Vado documentation. IIRC it is 50 Nm for the spider.

Many thanks for that - it is 50Nm for the spider and the cranks.

Should have checked that before .

 

[PaD]

That's what I ment to say (thanks for your suggestions). Sorry if I didn't express that but I'm not a native speaker.



No he hasn't yet but I'd appreciate it very much if he could test and prove what you're assuming.

That’s right, I haven’t confirmed in the way that I’ve shown how to do it.
Sorry to disappiont you but I don’t like to take apart things that are working well. Still, by looking at it I would not think there is a need to remove the crank.
@bellandbottle may prove me wrong when he gets all parts and tools and starts changing the crankwheel.

 

[bellandbottle]

Just an update on where I am at this morning .

The tools and the "Rolls Royce" E8000 chain arrived over the week-end, and today - as I thought, all the parts came from Germany. All that is left is the chainring itself - coming from China, no less.

I am beginning to understand why my LBS did not want to do the job, having jumped through all the hoops myself. It is quite clear that the UK is not yet geared up for the ebike - there are two major online retailers of cycle parts, and neither of them (or any others that I can find) is carrying a chain longer than 116L. Amazon did the business from Cologne. I suspect if I lived in Holland, things would be much different.

On a change of subject, I am planning ahead on sizing the chain, and have downloaded this cutting from a Park Tool document, which shows 4 links more for a single chainwheel, having wrapped the chain round the largest cassette sprocket, without the derailleur. I would appreciate some feedback from anyone who has done this.

 

[Sierratim]

Just an update on where I am at this morning .

The tools and the "Rolls Royce" E8000 chain arrived over the week-end, and today - as I thought, all the parts came from Germany. All that is left is the chainring itself - coming from China, no less.

I am beginning to understand why my LBS did not want to do the job, having jumped through all the hoops myself. It is quite clear that the UK is not yet geared up for the ebike - there are two major online retailers of cycle parts, and neither of them (or any others that I can find) is carrying a chain longer than 116L. Amazon did the business from Cologne. I suspect if I lived in Holland, things would be much different.

On a change of subject, I am planning ahead on sizing the chain, and have downloaded this cutting from a Park Tool document, which shows 4 links more for a single chainwheel, having wrapped the chain round the largest cassette sprocket, without the derailleur. I would appreciate some feedback from anyone who has done this.

In my 'bicycle kitchen' days I have used the '2-link' process to add chains to triple chain ring bikes when the original chin was missing or too rusted to use as a tempalte. It worked well. I've never needed to do this on my bikes. I always use the original chain as a template for the replacement chain making the replacement the same length as the original. Since the drive train was working OK, it always works even better with the same length new chain.

Note that some OEM chains do not have master links. Most replacement chains do. You do need to take this into account when sizing the replacement chain.

 

[bellandbottle]

In my 'bicycle kitchen' days I have used the '2-link' process to add chains to triple chain ring bikes when the original chin was missing or too rusted to use as a tempalte. It worked well. I've never needed to do this on my bikes. I always use the original chain as a template for the replacement chain making the replacement the same length as the original. Since the drive train was working OK, it always works even better with the same length new chain.

Note that some OEM chains do not have master links. Most replacement chains do. You do need to take this into account when sizing the replacement chain.

I will be increasing my 40T to 44T, so the chain needs to be longer - that means I need to make a decision . There is a speed link in the E8000 package (138L), which is good news.

I have always used the "plus 2" with my mechanical bikes, and the suggestion of "plus 4" for a single chainring setup threw me a bit.

 

[Sierratim]

I will be increasing my 40T to 44T, so the chain needs to be longer - that means I need to make a decision . There is a speed link in the E8000 package (138L), which is good news.

I have always used the "plus 2" with my mechanical bikes, and the suggestion of "plus 4" for a single chainring setup threw me a bit.

Got it!

 

[TS25]

On a change of subject, I am planning ahead on sizing the chain, and have downloaded this cutting from a Park Tool document, .... I would appreciate some feedback from anyone who has done this.

Take it easy, you do not need this.

As I had remarked in #16 before,
"As for the 44T which I think is a good choice for you, you'll need app. four more chain links (124 instead of 120) "

If you'd go for the 48T chain ring, it is likely up to 8 links more (128).

All that matters is the rear derailleur, you want it working with all cogs from the smallest to the biggest.

Install the new 44T chain ring.
As you have bought a 138 chain, count down 14 links, mark it there, and hold it around your chain drive putting in onto the biggest cog to see whether the derailleur sits fine or not. Do the same placing the chain on the smallest cog and check.

You're done and you know the suitable chain length for your altered chain ring.

and the suggestion of "plus 4" for a single chainring setup threw me a bit.

app. plus 4 was my suggestion because you are changing from 40T to 44T chain ring. You have 40T chain ring and 120 chain links presently.
So my suggestion had nothing to do with your "2 extra link method" but of course you could use that method instead.

 

[bellandbottle]

Take it easy, you do not need this.

As I had remarked in #16 before,
"As for the 44T which I think is a good choice for you, you'll need app. four more chain links (124 instead of 120) "

If you'd go for the 48T chain ring, it is likely up to 8 links more (128).

All that matters is the rear derailleur, you want it working with all cogs from the smallest to the biggest.

Install the new 44T chain ring.
As you have bought a 138 chain, count down 14 links, mark it there, and hold it around your chain drive putting in onto the biggest cog to see whether the derailleur sits fine or not. Do the same placing the chain on the smallest cog and check.

You're done and you know the suitable chain length for your altered chain ring.



app. plus 4 was my suggestion because you are changing from 40T to 44T chain ring. You have 40T chain ring and 120 chain links presently.

Thanks for that. I will take two before photos of the derailleur on the top and bottom cogs anyway, to help me in my decision making.

I reckon you are correct in your assessment, but I will confirm when the chainring gets here.

As I said, I have always used the first process, to check anyway, when working on my other bikes.

 

[TS25]

You might like to take a look at the Shimano dealers manual about chain installation

Manuals & Technical Documents

 

[bellandbottle]

You might like to take a look at the Shimano dealers manual about chain installation

Manuals & Technical Documents

It is very good of you to look that manual up - I have downloaded it.

It confirms the rule of largest sprocket and single chainring wrapround, plus 2 links, so I don't quite know why the other document is saying different.

Thanks again .

 

[bellandbottle]

I am a bit downheartened because I cannot get a delivery update for my Deckas chainring .

However, today I have found this chainring which seems to fit the bill - does anyone have any experience of the FSA product?

 

[Sierratim]

I've had good results using FSA replacement chainrings on our mech bikes. The pic you posted is small, but it seems to have pins around the perimeter of the ring. Is this the same chainring, https://www.wiggle.co.uk/fsa-brose-e-bike-chainring/ ? This one is pinned with shaped teeth and marked 42/28 implying to me that it's intended to be used in a multi-ring setup. Do you have a multi or single chainring setup?

Also, I don't see a mention of narrow/wide teeth like the Deckas chainring, https://www.amazon.com/dp/B081ZHMRDP/ref=twister_B081ZHK7K9?th=1&psc=1 . Do you need this? Most single ring setups do.

 

[bellandbottle]

I've had good results using FSA replacement chainrings on our mech bikes. The pic you posted is small, but it seems to have pins around the perimeter of the ring. Is this the same chainring, https://www.wiggle.co.uk/fsa-brose-e-bike-chainring/ ? This one is pinned with shaped teeth and marked 42/28 implying to me that it's intended to be used in a multi-ring setup. Do you have a multi or single chainring setup?

Also, I don't see a mention of narrow/wide teeth like the Deckas chainring, https://www.amazon.com/dp/B081ZHMRDP/ref=twister_B081ZHK7K9?th=1&psc=1 . Do you need this? Most single ring setups do.

Well it looks like I might have to scratch this one off . With the Vado I only have one chainring, but when I saw Brose mentioned, I put 2 and 2 together and may have come up with 5.

It is really frustrating waiting for this ring, and the Amazon link is connected to the same folks that I have ordered from.

I will hunker down some more.

 

[TS25]

The Vado is designed for a narrow-wide chainring.

@bellandbottle
Probably you could do with a normal chainring like the one your picture shows at the risk of dropping off your chain (and even you afterwards, diving across the bar).

Delayd parts coming from far east/China is a C19-issue I suppose. I'm on the fence waiting for platform pedals from China ordered 6th April and all I know is "airline has accepted the transport".

 

[bellandbottle]

For those interested in what my chainring progress is - here is an update.

The Deckas 44T narrow-wide ring arrived today and it looks a quality item. Unfortunately, I do still have a bit of a hold-up, because the chainring bolts which came with it are not quite long enough for what I want to do.

That is because I want to fit a bashguard, and cannot find one which fits the same as the original. I had a discussion with Specialized re ordering a 48T guard, which would be a bit too big, but they have advised that I fit an after- market guard which uses the chainring bolts, and I bought one. That means I need 8mm bolts instead of the 5mm ones in the pack.

A bit frustrating, but in this C-19 world I think we are all learning to be a bit philosophical - maybe .

 

[bellandbottle]

For me at least, the long saga is over, and I attach a picture of the finished job. You can see I have fitted an after-market (FSA) 44T bashguard, and I reckon it looks OK - but I would, would I not .

The slightly annoying thing is that, with the tools recommended by TS25 and the very good training video, it took just minutes to disassemble the chainring, spider etc and build it again. All the delay was caused by extended delivery of parts, plus a bit of workshop time with the chainring bolts.

Many thanks to everyone here who gave me encouragement and expert advice - I found Specialized support in the UK to be helpful too.

I almost forgot, I am now operating 3 cogs up from where I was on the cassette, so have achieved the objective.

 

[PaD]

For me at least, the long saga is over, and I attach a picture of the finished job. You can see I have fitted an after-market (FSA) 44T bashguard, and I reckon it looks OK - but I would, would I not .

The slightly annoying thing is that, with the tools recommended by TS25 and the very good training video, it took just minutes to disassemble the chainring, spider etc and build it again. All the delay was caused by extended delivery of parts, plus a bit of workshop time with the chainring bolts.

Many thanks to everyone here who gave me encouragement and expert advice - I found Specialized support in the UK to be helpful too.

I almost forgot, I am now operating 3 cogs up from where I was on the cassette, so have achieved the objective.

Good to hear you finally got the tools you wanted and could ”adjust” your Vado to your liking.
I think it was a good decision to choose 44 tooth (over 48) on a bike restricted to 25kph.

 

[TS25]

For me at least, the long saga is over, and I attach a picture of the finished job. You can see I have fitted an after-market (FSA) 44T bashguard, and I reckon it looks OK - but I would, would I not .
..., it took just minutes to disassemble the chainring, spider etc and build it again. All the delay was caused by extended delivery of parts, plus a bit of workshop time with the chainring bolts.

I almost forgot, I am now operating 3 cogs up from where I was on the cassette, so have achieved the objective.

Well done.
Did you use Loctite blue for the chainring bolts?
I believe that I missed it on one of them when I first mounted them, and lost a bolt two weeks ago.

So I tried to fasten a new 2-piece-set chainringbolt without taking the spider off. Never again I must say.
As I had pointed out in #47, the chainringbolts for the Deckas are to be held from the back which is almost impossible without taking the spider off.

 

[bellandbottle]

Well done.
Did you use Loctite blue for the chainring bolts?
I believe that I missed it on one of them when I first mounted them, and lost a bolt two weeks ago.

So I tried to fasten a new 2-piece-set chainringbolt without taking the spider off. Never again I must say.
As I had pointed out in #47, the chainringbolts for the Deckas are to be held from the back which is almost impossible without taking the spider off.

The chainring bolts I used in the end were a bit long, so I fitted them and filed them back to the sleeve nut, then unscrewed them 2/3rds of the way, put loctite blue on the threads, and tightened them up again.

By the way, I had to put 8 more links onto my chain whip to hold the chainring and spider when I torqued up the ring - the video was great for that, 18 minutes in.

Thanks again for your help .