CCX intermittent power

[jom]

Hi, do you have the link to that part on Aliexpress? I've done a quick search and can't find it. My battery connector melted yesterday and left melted plastic stuck to the receiver pin

The part I received is not a mating connector for the battery. I asked Juiced for the part number or name for the male 2-pin connector, and when/if they answer I'll let you know.

 

[Vic_1949]

I’m certainly not an engineer, but it seems like a simple fix could be making the socket spring loaded so that it would provide constant lateral pressure to the pin connector. Just my uneducated guess.

When I reached 305 miles on the ccx (had it a few weeks and really enjoy it) I lost power due to the same bad connection. Does anyone have any idea where you can buy spare connectors of the pin type that is on the battery holder? I would like to take off the connector located on the bike frame, and plug it into the battery first (before putting the battery on the frame). That way I could make sure the connector is FULLY seated before installing the battery. While putting on the battery I would just stuff the 2 extra inches of wire needed to do this into the frame. I'm thinking about when the bike goes out of warranty and what to do to fix the issue. As you mentioned all that current will corrode the connectors over time if it's only getting about 1mm of contact (arc's from vibration will ruin the connector and pins over time). Please, anyone, if you find a part number for the connector, post where to buy them.

 

[Vic_1949]

The part I received is not a mating connector for the battery. I asked Juiced for the part number or name for the male 2-pin connector, and when/if they answer I'll let you know.

Could you please post the part number when and if you get it, that would be very much appreciated! I find lots of the 3 pin connectors used on the charging port, but can't find the 2 pin.

 

[bikerjohn]

With 140 miles to date on my CCX, I have not experienced any issue with intermittent power. However, in light of these battery connector issues I anticipate the Battery's plug design may need, at some point in the future, to be rebuilt. My thinking is that minimizing the total amount of battery removal and re-installation procedures may delay that eventuality. With that goal, I have performed all top-off/recharge cycles while the battery remains connected to the bike. As an aside, I have limited the recharge/top-off cycles to times when the garage temperature was moderate, topping-off the charge only with temperatures between 40 and 80 °F.

My question for CCX owners that have encountered the intermittent connection issue: How often have you installed and uninstalled the battery before noticing intermittent connection issues?

 

[Vic_1949]

Update 2018/12/09 on intermittent power:

This bike is impressive, in performance vs. price, features, power, speed. Readers that are thinking on buying a new bike by no means should be discouraged by these relatively minor, solvable problems.

Reference is made to the picture "shorter-pin.jpg" below. The port connector removed from the port assembly is shown. There are two o-rings to make the connector water-tight, one at each end of the threads. I removed both o-rings when I took the picture . The positive pin (the one at the right in the picture, is slightly shorter, not by much). While this is not the root cause, in conjuction with the poor battery-to-port electrical & mechanical engagement when in-the-frame, started the sparking problem. When I reassembled the whole thing, I did not install the o-rings back, what improved the electrical engagement by the width of the compressed o-ring, not much. Without the o-rings in place, water can get into the connection. It seems that this connector is a proprietary design; I could not find a replacement that can be procured on Amazon or other vendors.

In the picture "port-assy-inserted-in-battery-out-of-the-frame.jpg", the port assembly is shown connected to the battery, both out of the frame. The insertion is perfect, the insertion force is very good and the electrical and mechanical fit cannot be better. Unfortunately this is not the situation when the port assy is installed in the frame. In that case the battery is prevented from inserting correctly to the port by the frame wall. This seems to be the root cause.

As stated in my previous post, the port assembly may require a re-design. (I am assuming that my bike is not the only one to have this issue.) An alternative, less desirable but probably less expensive solution would be to make the connector about 4 mm longer; I wouldn't recommend it.

Since I removed the o-rings I could not reproduce the problem by pushing the battery to the left with my right hand. I couldn't ride the bike since then due to the weather conditions; I'll report when weather allows.

Thanks very much for this informative connector study! I too searched for the connectors online and was able to find a specification (not in English) which I marked up. It has a part number, but I haven't been able to find the p/n for purchasing online, if you do please let me know. I have concluded based on my same problem that your conclusions are correct. My CCX lost connection entirely after 300 + miles and even hitting the battery towards the connector didn't work, I could only get the display to work by using jumper cables from a power supply into the 2 pin frame connector. In your photo's you show you had jumper wires going into the battery, where did you get the correct size pins for the connector to make the jumpers? I'm thinking I could use them to make my own connections so I can ensure the connections are good before the battery is installed. I could make some RTV rubber mold to keep an insertion force on the pins and make it water tight. I want to make the connection BEFORE installing the battery, put a rubber RTV rubber ball between the pins and housing to make sure vibration and water are not a problem. Then I can be hopefully assured of a good connection.

 

[Vic_1949]

With 140 miles to date on my CCX, I have not experienced any issue with intermittent power. However, in light of these battery connector issues I anticipate the Battery's plug design may need, at some point in the future, to be rebuilt. My thinking is that minimizing the total amount of battery removal and re-installation procedures may delay that eventuality. With that goal, I have performed all top-off/recharge cycles while the battery remains connected to the bike. As an aside, I have limited the recharge/top-off cycles to times when the garage temperature was moderate, topping-off the charge only with temperatures between 40 and 80 °F.

My question for CCX owners that have encountered the intermittent connection issue: How often have you installed and uninstalled the battery before noticing intermittent connection issues?

I have removed the battery only a few times since I got the bike, definitely less than 4 times before the problem surfaced. Then when the display would not turn on the first time, I may have reinserted the battery 5 more times to get it to make contact. It probably didn't make good contact as about a week later I lost the connection entirely and could not get it back. I know it was the connector because I could jumper 50v into the bike with a external power supply and the display worked fine. The female pin on the + side was recessed maybe 1.5mm which caused the loss of power. The battery is in the process of being replaced by Juiced, they sent one as soon as they concluded from my photo's it needed new pins. They sent it priority 2 day shipping, but because of the weekend I haven't received it yet, hopefully it will arrive today. Because the e-bikes are heavy I removed the battery to reduce the weight to put it on a car rack with a hitch bike holder setup, otherwise I'd probably never take the battery off. Even if you don't take the battery off, vibration will be a issue over time and the connection will burn up especially if the + side is only making about 1mm of contact between the male and female pin. This will cause arcing and heat. So I'm hoping Juiced comes up with a improvement for the connection, otherwise I'll need to do something after the warranty.

 

[jom]

I have removed the battery only a few times since I got the bike, definitely less than 4 times before the problem surfaced. Then when the display would not turn on the first time, I may have reinserted the battery 5 more times to get it to make contact. It probably didn't make good contact as about a week later I lost the connection entirely and could not get it back. I know it was the connector because I could jumper 50v into the bike with a external power supply and the display worked fine. The female pin on the + side was recessed maybe 1.5mm which caused the loss of power. The battery is in the process of being replaced by Juiced, they sent one as soon as they concluded from my photo's it needed new pins. They sent it priority 2 day shipping, but because of the weekend I haven't received it yet, hopefully it will arrive today. Because the e-bikes are heavy I removed the battery to reduce the weight to put it on a car rack with a hitch bike holder setup, otherwise I'd probably never take the battery off. Even if you don't take the battery off, vibration will be a issue over time and the connection will burn up especially if the + side is only making about 1mm of contact between the male and female pin. This will cause arcing and heat. So I'm hoping Juiced comes up with a improvement for the connection, otherwise I'll need to do something after the warranty.

Vic_1949: Same happened to me. I assume Juiced will send you a new battery and a new wide receiver-lock assembly. If they send you a new receiver-lock assembly, I suggest you take the opportunity to remove the o-ring that is behind the male connector (there are two o-rings, remove the larger diameter one, after removing the silver nut). This will give one more millimeter or so to the connection engagement between the male connector pins and the female connector sleeves on the battery side. After you install the new receiver-lock assy, be sure to use one or two velcro straps to keep the battery as much to the right of the bike as possible. By taking these two steps you will improve the chances of not repeating the problem, until Juiced comes with a final solution, if ever. A current of up to 20-25 Amps requires a very good connection.

So far, I was unable to find a male connector that mates the battery. I asked Juiced for the name or number to order, but they say they are out of stock. For as long as the bike is under warranty I will use the factory configuration. As soon as it expires, if Juiced did not come with a solution by that time, I will modify the connection to implement what you have suggested above, that is, extend the wires few inches, engage the male connector in the battery before attaching the battery to the frame. For this, the plastic piece or the male connector will need to be modified, so that the male connector becomes a floating connector.

 

[jinim]

Vic_1949: Same happened to me. I assume Juiced will send you a new battery and a new wide receiver-lock assembly. If they send you a new receiver-lock assembly, I suggest you take the opportunity to remove the o-ring that is behind the male connector (there are two o-rings, remove the larger diameter one, after removing the silver nut). This will give one more millimeter or so to the connection engagement between the male connector pins and the female connector sleeves on the battery side. After you install the new receiver-lock assy, be sure to use one or two velcro straps to keep the battery as much to the right of the bike as possible. By taking these two steps you will improve the chances of not repeating the problem, until Juiced comes with a final solution, if ever. A current of up to 20-25 Amps requires a very good connection.

So far, I was unable to find a male connector that mates the battery. I asked Juiced for the name or number to order, but they say they are out of stock. For as long as the bike is under warranty I will use the factory configuration. As soon as it expires, if Juiced did not come with a solution by that time, I will modify the connection to implement what you have suggested above, that is, extend the wires few inches, engage the male connector in the battery before attaching the battery to the frame. For this, the plastic piece or the male connector will need to be modified, so that the male connector becomes a floating connector.

I believe I received a replacement battery in August and haven’t had any issues since. I keep a cheap velcro strap attached at all times and never take the battery off. I don’t know if I’ll develop any issues again in the future, but I definitely would recommend securing the battery with a strap. If I tap on the side of the battery without a strap the power will cut out.

 

[jom]

I believe I received a replacement battery in August and haven’t had any issues since. I keep a cheap velcro strap attached at all times and never take the battery off. I don’t know if I’ll develop any issues again in the future, but I definitely would recommend securing the battery with a strap. If I tap on the side of the battery without a strap the power will cut out.

If tapping the battery on the right side, the power cuts off, it is a sign that the pin engament is worse than marginal. Only the tip of the pins may be engaging. Same happened to me with the first battery. I would remove the o'ring on the back of the male connector. After I did it, the connection was not lost when tapping the battery on the right side, both with the old and the new battery. Juiced decided to change the battery and the receiver-lock assy. Just in case I also use velcro straps.

 

[BrianMura]

@Vic_1949 Could you please share some pictures of your connector and assembly with us?

I am planning to check my battery and assembly every month. In addition to charging only on the bike and using velcro straps, I'm going to take off the male connector assembly and make sure the male connector is pushed in all the way from the back (accessible only by taking off the assembly) and that the lock ring nut is secure. Otherwise, the lock ring nut could loosen or the plug may shift back and not get pulled back just by tightening the lock ring nut.

I have the same plan as you two to modify the connector after the warranty. I hope @Court and @Tora Harris will help us get to the bottom of this issue in some way.

 

[jinim]

If tapping the battery on the right side, the power cuts off, it is a sign that the pin engament is worse than marginal. Only the tip of the pins may be engaging. Same happened to me with the first battery. I would remove the o'ring on the back of the male connector. After I did it, the connection was not lost when tapping the battery on the right side, both with the old and the new battery. Juiced decided to change the battery and the receiver-lock assy. Just in case I also use velcro straps.

I haven’t had any issues, so I’m not going to press my luck making any changes. They sent me a new connector when I first bought my bike since I had connection issues from day one. That fixed it for a few months before the connector melted. I never received a new connection kit though when I got my replacement battery.

 

[Merc]

Is this an issue only with the CCX? I haven't read any complaints of this occurring with the RCS. Is the down tube wider on the RCS?

 

[jom]

Is this an issue only with the CCX? I haven't read any complaints of this occurring with the RCS. Is the down tube wider on the RCS?

Probably happens because the standard battery is larger in the CCX. I think both bikes have the same size down tube ("wide", as per Juiced) but I am not sure. The battery width (left to right) is about 3.18" or 81 mm, and the part that protrudes above the frame, measured without removing it, on the right side is about 3.6" and on the left side 5.1" approx.

 

[ADKer]

I have had zero loose battery issues with my CCS, but I am going to buy the 24" velcro straps and apply before there's a problem. And try to remove the battery as little as possible, incase that also contributes to the problem. Thanks for the tips.

 

[jom]

I have had zero loose battery issues with my CCS, but I am going to buy the 24" velcro straps and apply before there's a problem. And try to remove the battery as little as possible, incase that also contributes to the problem. Thanks for the tips.

The straps I used are 24" long x 2" wide, needed for the large CCX battery; five of them per pack, I used two (Amazon link)

 

[jom]

Thanks very much for this informative connector study! I too searched for the connectors online and was able to find a specification (not in English) which I marked up. It has a part number, but I haven't been able to find the p/n for purchasing online, if you do please let me know. I have concluded based on my same problem that your conclusions are correct. My CCX lost connection entirely after 300 + miles and even hitting the battery towards the connector didn't work, I could only get the display to work by using jumper cables from a power supply into the 2 pin frame connector. In your photo's you show you had jumper wires going into the battery, where did you get the correct size pins for the connector to make the jumpers? I'm thinking I could use them to make my own connections so I can ensure the connections are good before the battery is installed. I could make some RTV rubber mold to keep an insertion force on the pins and make it water tight. I want to make the connection BEFORE installing the battery, put a rubber RTV rubber ball between the pins and housing to make sure vibration and water are not a problem. Then I can be hopefully assured of a good connection.

Vic_1949: What I am showing in the picture ((Link Removed - No Longer Exists)) is the battery plus the receiver-lock assy; the two wires are the standard wires that are soldered to the back pins of the male connector. At the other end of the wires there is a yellow 2-pin connector that mates with the controller power input connector.

The receiver connector shown in your pdf (擎天2P公端 PLA0049 高温尼龙 黑色 灌封处 理 成品 ) translates into "Optimus 2P Male End PLA0049 High Temperature Nylon Black potting finished product"

The battery connector (擎天2P母端 PLA0050 黑色 灌封处理 ) translates into "Optimus 2P Female End PLA0050 Black Potting"

Yesterday I received notice from Juiced that the "Receiver / Downtube Battery Lock Interface Set for Current Series / Wide Format" ((Link Removed - No Longer Exists)) is back in stock. Price is $ 49.00. I plan to order one so that I can have a spare to try ideas. Given the name (for "Current Series"), it implies is the same assy. used for CCS and CCX. Somebody was asking about this.

 

[jinim]

The straps I used are 24" long x 2" wide, needed for the large CCX battery; five of them per pack, I used two (Amazon link)

Fwiw I bought this off Amazon, it’s $7. I only use one 24” strap. I have the CCS.
CandyHome 20pcs Reusable Fastening Cable Straps and Cable Ties Set, Adjustable Multipurpose Hook and Loop Securing Straps for Cord Management https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06WVCGC37/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_.lUyCbP9XMR6H

 

[BrianMura]

Yesterday I received notice from Juiced that the "Receiver / Downtube Battery Lock Interface Set for Current Series / Wide Format" ((Link Removed - No Longer Exists)) is back in stock. Price is $ 49.00. I plan to order one so that I can have a spare to try ideas. Given the name (for "Current Series"), it implies is the same assy. used for CCS and CCX. Somebody was asking about this.

Thanks for the heads up, jom. I ordered one of the interface sets. Maybe I should have bought two...

I e-mailed Reention too. Doubt anything will come out of that...

 

[jom]

2019/02/22 Update:

Today I received two different versions of the male connector, which is part of the "Receiver / Downtube Battery Lock Interface Set for Current Series / Wide Format". One of the connectors was provided from Juiced as part of the assembly, the other was ordered directly from Reention (part number PLA0049, connector only, without o-rings).

For comparision I took a picture of both connectors: the Reention on the left of the picture, and the Juiced on the right. While the Reention connector shows both pins the same length, the Juiced shows the "+" pin shorter than the "-" and both pins in the Juiced somewhat shorter than the Reention pins. Other dimensions are essentially the same on both connectors. The Reention comes from a different mold, very likely from a different factory.

The distance measured from the tip of the pin with respect to the edge of the plastic connector is as follows:

Reention: "+" pin = 0.030", "-" pin = 0.030"
Juiced: "+" pin = 0.108", "-" pin = 0.075"

This means that for the positive pin, for the two samples I received, the Juiced connector appears to engage about 0.108" - 0.030" = 0.078" less than the Reention. Some other members of this forum have also mentioned that one of the pins in their connectors was shorter.

 

[BrianMura]

@jom How did you order the PLA0049 connector from Reention? I would like to order one too.

Are you going to swap the Juiced connector with the Reention connector for better engagement? Have to solder on a power cable to it?