Carbon Fat Bike Build: Dengfu E06 With Bafang Ultra.

[Jon A]

Fantastic looking build! Great job!

A couple of quick questions if you don't mind:

Have you test fitted the Lou 4.8 on the rear to see how much clearance you have?

How is the clearance between the Mastodon and the downtube? I've seen in pics of some they use a crown race spacer with that fork, I was guessing one may be required.

 

[stw]

...., i firmly believe in DIY/Self build which is why i did this bike, i was and am sick to death of how certain groups look down on self building and believe the only way is to go for their brand, in my world whatever you ride your welcome...

+1
This is what brought me to the idea of a conversion in the first place. A long-time cyclist, I've always built my bikes from parts, and it's hard for me to want to ride a brand-bike that is not built the way I use it and with the stuff I like. New to e-bikes, I had thought the brand-bike part was a necessary evil for e-bikes since I thought all good e-bikes had a factory Bosch mid-drive and all hub conversions were just on-the-cheap or were for people who just didn't like cycling... Ha! now I've learned a bit, I see the error of my ways.

Great build by the way, Haystacks. I was going to ask if you use it for trail riding because a lot of people prefer a fatbike for singletrack. Or do you use it for more specifically fatbike conditions (sand, snow, deep mud, or no-trail). Some people might choose a fat bike bike for e-biking with intentions for mainly road-riding; where I am in the mountain west, it seems like the majority of e-bikes on the road/highway are some kind of fatbike: 4" wide tires anyway, either on a fatbike wheel size or the 20"x4" size common on utility e-bikes now.

I've noticed many on the list here build a fatbike 4" wide tire for e-bike road commuting, or at least a plus size 3" tire for commuter e-bikes. Maybe that's because the motor assist makes up for the extra resistance of the fat tires, and the wide tires provide some handling security at higher speeds since they're more like the width tires motorcycles have?

 

[Haystacks]

Fantastic looking build! Great job!

A couple of quick questions if you don't mind:

Have you test fitted the Lou 4.8 on the rear to see how much clearance you have?

How is the clearance between the Mastodon and the downtube? I've seen in pics of some they use a crown race spacer with that fork, I was guessing one may be required.

Thanks, it's certainly worth it.

The answer to both of your questions is, theres loads of room. I've not put lou on yet as i don't need to check, i knew beforehand it would fit and when you look at the space left over it'll clearly fit, same with the forks, loads of clearance, the issue most people are having is pedal strikes which is why i've got some hope 155mm cranks on the way.

 

[Jon A]

Thanks. Yeah, I've got 160mm Lekkies ready to go on whenever my bike finally gets here.

 

[Haystacks]

+1
This is what brought me to the idea of a conversion in the first place. A long-time cyclist, I've always built my bikes from parts, and it's hard for me to want to ride a brand-bike that is not built the way I use it and with the stuff I like. New to e-bikes, I had thought the brand-bike part was a necessary evil for e-bikes since I thought all good e-bikes had a factory Bosch mid-drive and all hub conversions were just on-the-cheap or were for people who just didn't like cycling... Ha! now I've learned a bit, I see the error of my ways.

Everything in life boils down to 'Different strokes for different folks' all our needs are different and mine are fairly specific, the beauty is we can create what we need and by creating become more independent, i am the bike shop and i have the biggest repository of knowledge known to man at my fingertips, whats not to like?

Great build by the way, Haystacks. I was going to ask if you use it for trail riding because a lot of people prefer a fatbike for singletrack. Or do you use it for more specifically fatbike conditions (sand, snow, deep mud, or no-trail). Some people might choose a fat bike bike for e-biking with intentions for mainly road-riding; where I am in the mountain west, it seems like the majority of e-bikes on the road/highway are some kind of fatbike: 4" wide tires anyway, either on a fatbike wheel size or the 20"x4" size common on utility e-bikes now.

Where i live and therefore where i ride is very inhospitable, this landscape eats bikes and people, it's very easy to come a cropper so anything you are reliant upon must be reliable, each component on the bike has earned its spot including the overall use of a fatbike, anything else would struggle, i don't ride roads at all except to access initial tracks - maybe 200m, then it's boulders, slop, horse/sheep s*it more slop, rocks mixed with boulders, then single tracks on the backbone of the UK comprised of aforementioned hazards, but i end up in places i know very few people have been, all with my best mate, my malamute. I see this kind of eMTB a little bit different, we are modern range riders, exploring. It's not about downhill or enduro it's more about connecting with Gaia - wilderness and beauty.

I've noticed many on the list here build a fatbike 4" wide tire for e-bike road commuting, or at least a plus size 3" tire for commuter e-bikes. Maybe that's because the motor assist makes up for the extra resistance of the fat tires, and the wide tires provide some handling security at higher speeds since they're more like the width tires motorcycles have?

I think 40mph on any bike tire is scary. What i have noticed is that weight offers stability at higher speeds and the distribution of that weight moreso.

 

[m@Robertson]

This is what brought me to the idea of a conversion in the first place. A long-time cyclist, I've always built my bikes from parts, and it's hard for me to want to ride a brand-bike that is not built the way I use it and with the stuff I like. New to e-bikes, I had thought the brand-bike part was a necessary evil for e-bikes since I thought all good e-bikes had a factory Bosch mid-drive and all hub conversions were just on-the-cheap or were for people who just didn't like cycling... Ha! now I've learned a bit, I see the error of my ways.

Well said!

I've noticed many on the list here build a fatbike 4" wide tire for e-bike road commuting, or at least a plus size 3" tire for commuter e-bikes. Maybe that's because the motor assist makes up for the extra resistance of the fat tires, and the wide tires provide some handling security at higher speeds since they're more like the width tires motorcycles have?

Speaking for myself, you have it figured out exactly. Also the larger tires equate to better load carrying capacity when you are going really big on the cargo bike load. I have done skinny 2" tires and 400+ lb loads, and then done the same load with 2.8" tires and the difference was so great and so positive for the ride it made me go out and get a longtail capable of 4"+ fat tires (Surly Big Fat Dummy).

Having a motor completely changes the calculation but to wrap your head around a positive view of fat tires, the realization has to be made that an ebike is a bicycle-shaped-object and not a bicycle. So you really do yourself a favor by adopting a clean-sheet approach. For example a Shimano HG-400-9 cluster is almost the best you can put on your bike... because it is single-piece welded steel: One step above junk for a bicycle. But for an ebike its got lots going for it to the point it is essentially a best-practice option.

I would add that handling security is only a part of the fat tire equation. Also relevant is shock absorption to the frame and the rider. The bike pictured below was my daily driver for a few years, and still is on occasion. In that time I did fat tires, tubed and tubeless, skinny smoothies and stuff in between. You see here the two extremes.

Thats a 30+ mph pedelec (note the chainring size, mid-length cage and small cluster). I loved the smooth ride and grip of the Crazy Bobs, but riding on the mean streets at ebike speeds, the pavement just gave me a pounding. Thats a top-quality hand-made-in-USA frame but even so there came a point where I wondered if I was compromising its long term survivability, so I went back to fat: 4" smoothies on it now, so I'm in the middle.

 

[Haystacks]

Thanks. Yeah, I've got 160mm Lekkies ready to go on whenever my bike finally gets here.

Are they isis splined? Check to make sure. Has any of your bits turned up yet? The motor took 3 weeks for me, frame 4, i've also noticed yours is slightly different, If you look at the bottom 'tube' yours has square edges mine are bevelled, the picture on the website is square like yours too. Odd.

 

[Jon A]

Are they isis splined? Check to make sure.

Yup!

I got the ones with offset, assuming it would be needed to clear the Fat chainstay...hopefully that was the right choice!

Has any of your bits turned up yet?

Unfortunately no. I did hear a couple months ago about dozens of container ships sitting in LA Harbor having to wait a ridiculous amount of time to unload so I'm guessing it's related to that. I'm still within the time window stated so I'm not panicked yet. But I'm getting very impatient!

i've also noticed yours is slightly different, If you look at the bottom 'tube' yours has square edges mine are bevelled, the picture on the website is square like yours too. Odd.

Interesting, I hadn't noticed that! It might be possible it's just the way the light is hitting the frame in the pic making a shadow...I sort of hope that's what it is as I like the way yours looks. Hopefully I'll find out soon.

 

[Haystacks]

Yup!
View attachment 91775

I got the ones with offset, assuming it would be needed to clear the Fat chainstay...hopefully that was the right choice!



Unfortunately no. I did hear a couple months ago about dozens of container ships sitting in LA Harbor having to wait a ridiculous amount of time to unload so I'm guessing it's related to that. I'm still within the time window stated so I'm not panicked yet. But I'm getting very impatient!




Interesting, I hadn't noticed that! It might be possible it's just the way the light is hitting the frame in the pic making a shadow...I sort of hope that's what it is as I like the way yours looks. Hopefully I'll find out soon.

You ordered the right ones.

What i've noticed with Dengfu deliveries is that there is consistency in delivery times, when i ordered mine lots on the emtb forum ordered their e10s and we received them at the same time too (it was like a weird Christmas day), however we were all European, Americans can't get e10 because of Luna but i think your delays from china may be political tbh. It'll soon be with you and your love affair can begin

 

[stw]

Well said!

Speaking for myself, you have it figured out exactly. Also the larger tires equate to better load carrying capacity when you are going really big on the cargo bike load. I have done skinny 2" tires and 400+ lb loads, and then done the same load with 2.8" tires and the difference was so great and so positive for the ride it made me go out and get a longtail capable of 4"+ fat tires (Surly Big Fat Dummy).

Having a motor completely changes the calculation but to wrap your head around a positive view of fat tires, the realization has to be made that an ebike is a bicycle-shaped-object and not a bicycle. So you really do yourself a favor by adopting a clean-sheet approach. For example a Shimano HG-400-9 cluster is almost the best you can put on your bike... because it is single-piece welded steel: One step above junk for a bicycle. But for an ebike its got lots going for it to the point it is essentially a best-practice option.

I would add that handling security is only a part of the fat tire equation. Also relevant is shock absorption to the frame and the rider. The bike pictured below was my daily driver for a few years, and still is on occasion. In that time I did fat tires, tubed and tubeless, skinny smoothies and stuff in between. You see here the two extremes.

Good information and it's making me realize I should go wide on my upcoming GMAC build. I was leaning toward 42mm tires but the bike will do 50mm tires too. I may try both like you have. It's a steel ~road bike but fairly lightweight (bike is a 22 lb bike before conversion).

My first and only e-bike is a fatbike, which is why I was interested in Haystack's build thread. Haystack uses his for exactly the kind of terrain that makes 4-5" tires necessary, but my fatbike has mostly done on-road commuting since I got in early March. iZip Sumo with 26x4" tires and Bosch Activedrive 20mph limited. My 4" tires have seemed like overkill on the road but I'm not carrying cargo loads or going as fast as your Pedalec. I find the 20mph limit holds me back on road more than I expected. I'm spending too much time at 22mph with no assist.

Haven't tried the Crazy Bob tire, but did switch out the stock knobbie VeeRubber tires for Origin8 Supercell 26x4" tires. They're quieter on road anyway.

At least I've learned about riding a mid-drive and maybe e-bikes in general.
Funny about the Shimano HG-400-9 cluster you mention: I've learned for e-biking I don't need as many gear ratios; for my conversion I just got a basic Shimano 11-30 8speed, well below spec for anything I'd put on my non-e bicycle builds.

 

[Alanzo]

I hear that! Not long ago I built an SN04 from the ground up with the same mindset:

View attachment 90032

View attachment 90033

I absolutely love the finished product! I like it so much, that when I decided I "needed" an E-Bike, non-fat wasn't even a consideration. (OK, I promise I'll stop cluttering up your thread with pics now.... )



Yes, it seems way too many "highly experienced MTB riders" once went for a 5 minute spin on a really cheap, 80's geometry fatbike with really low quality, heavy wheels and tires and think they know how "fatbikes" ride and handle. I think a ride on something like the SN04 above would change a lot of their minds.




Thanks! I know my 18" frame will have less, but if it's within 2-3 inches of that I think it'll be OK for my purposes.

Truly beautiful workmanship!!

 

[ejphotos]

That's a great looking bike!

 

[m@Robertson]

Haven't tried the Crazy Bob tire, but did switch out the stock knobbie VeeRubber tires for Origin8 Supercell 26x4" tires. They're quieter on road anyway.

At least I've learned about riding a mid-drive and maybe e-bikes in general.
Funny about the Shimano HG-400-9 cluster you mention: I've learned for e-biking I don't need as many gear ratios; for my conversion I just got a basic Shimano 11-30 8speed, well below spec for anything I'd put on my non-e bicycle builds.

I have found the Supercell in its hard to find 30 tpi casing wears like freaking iron and is amazingly grippy. I would still be using them if I could find the damn things. Still have one on the back of the orange bike in that bottom picture, but when its gone thats it. No spares. These days I am running Arisun Big Smoothies for summer street tires.

I believe the Crazy Bob is no longer available. It was sort of a Super Moto X with no belt, a thicker casing and super smooth-rolling knobby tread. One of those good-everywhere-best-nowhere kind of tires.

You definitely need fewer gears with a mid unless you are really going ape on black trails.

 

[Jon A]

Interesting, I hadn't noticed that! It might be possible it's just the way the light is hitting the frame in the pic making a shadow...I sort of hope that's what it is as I like the way yours looks. Hopefully I'll find out soon.

Well, I finally have an answer. Looks to me like my frame has the same bevelled edges as yours, so people don't need to worry about there being different versions of the frame:

 

[Daxxie555]

I also found your build (there doesn't seem to be very many of them online compared with some other frames), very nice! It looks like you had a 27.5X4.5" Barbegazi on the rear in one of the pics--how much tire clearance do you have with that tire on there?

Sorry for the late reply.

27.5X4.5 is really not that much bigger.

More then enough clearance.





The Ultra has a 3500W controller.
So I went for a 14S5P battery with 30Q's

 

[Jon A]

Thanks for the info, looks great.

 

[Boostin22]

Haystacks, what rear shock do you have on the bike?

I've been looking for a coil shock for this bike and can't find one that fits in the frame.

 

[TOOSLOW]

I would like to try these two fat-e's in comparison to the Bulls Monster efs Bosch system in Black Diamond Single track. Summer and winter. Too bad your both too far away. Capable full suspension fat-e's are the absolute best, period.

 

[Boostin22]

Sorry for the late reply.

27.5X4.5 is really not that much bigger.

More then enough clearance.

View attachment 94582
View attachment 94583
View attachment 94584

The Ultra has a 3500W controller.
So I went for a 14S5P battery with 30Q's

View attachment 94587
View attachment 94585
View attachment 94586

Hi Daxxie,

I’ve got a Dengfu E06 on order, and I’ve been following along with all the builds of the frame I can find (yours, Jon A, Haystacks).

I’ve got most of the parts ordered, but I am struggling a bit with the battery. My original e-fatbike build has a 1092Wh battery in an off the shelf Mega Shark housing. I’ve gotten quite used to the range it has, and was really hoping to increase the range of this bike.

I noticed you were able to fit a 14S5P battery in there, which is a nice increase in size. How did you go about having the housing increased to fit the extra cells? Did you develop the 3d printed parts yourself, or have a company make them for you?

I bought an extra battery case (thanks for the tip on that Haystacks) so that I can use the factory battery for now while I try to sort out a larger capacity battery for the frame.

Open to any suggestions from folks who know where I can get a bigger battery made up.

 

[Daxxie555]

Hi Daxxie,

I noticed you were able to fit a 14S5P battery in there, which is a nice increase in size. How did you go about having the housing increased to fit the extra cells? Did you develop the 3d printed parts yourself, or have a company make them for you?

I squeezed 14S5P in the original housing. It is a tight fit and I had to move the on/off button to a different location.


No room for the BMS so I placed the BMS on top of the case.
In the frame a hole was made for the BMS.



Saw a guy that put 70 x 21700 in the frame but that takes a bit more creativity.
He hacked the frame and made his own box.




There is also a company that sells bigger batteries for the E06 / E09 but it sticks out the frame.
20Ah / 48v (960wh)