California DMV getting tough on e-motos?

[harryS]

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Copied from Facebook page of the Mammoth Lake Police Department, about an hour SW of Yosemite. Guess you can ride them offroad, but if you take them on the street, they need to be registered.


Attention visitors and residents!! Sur-ron and Sur-ron style machines are not street legal as sold from retailers and distributors. There have been some recent changes to how the CA DMV and the law recognizes these machines.

They DO NOT qualify as E-bikes as they exceed the top allowable speed for a class 1, 2, or 3 E-bikes and they do not have functioning pedals.

The CA DMV has started allowing owners of these machines to register them after making the machine street legal, by adding mirrors, turn signals, headlights, and tail lights. The registration process includes CA DMV signing off on the machine as meeting requirements of the CA Vehicle code. Once registered, a license plate will be issued and it must be properly displayed.

Riders of registered Sur-rons and similarly styled machines must be 16 years of age, in possession of a valid CA driver's license and have an M1 or M2 endorsement. Riders must follow the same rules of the road as any other motorcycle. Riders must wear the required DOT approved safety gear.

They are not permitted on public highways or roadways, even if travelling a short distance.

Please be safe!

 

[Chargeride]

They are the go to transport for local drug deliveries, 15 yr olds dressed fully in black at night with no lights.
The police wont chase in case they crash and die.

Two kids died last month and a police officer who followed them for a short while earlier on that day has been suspended and is facing a criminal prosecution.

Bearing in mind they can never be legal in the UK without a long process of type approval, engineer reports , a full motorcycle licence and insurance if you can get it.

Yup, thats where we are

 

[Slaphappygamer]

Nice. A 4th ebike class. Emoto class. This is much appreciated.

 

[justforfun]

So, register them.

 

[AvalancheRun]

I would rather people ride those than loud gas motorcycles and scooters. Hopefully people follow through and start to register them.

But yes, they were never legal bikes for trails, bike lanes, etc.

 

[Mike_V]

Beautiful digital virtual creation by the M.L.P.D. and half truth about the lights.
How do they get away with this, because: These e-bikes SUR RON only have about 1 1/2 HP Motors NO (?) - prove me wrong.
1 1/2 HP That is Mo Ped level power and regulated as such in Connecticut. and why not?
no registration, no driver license & no helmet required - it's electric and no problemo

 

[harryS]

1HP is equivalent to 750W which is the top for class 1-3. Maybe California requires license/registrationm etc for mopeds. Illinois does that.

 

[J.R.]

I would rather people ride those than loud gas motorcycles and scooters. Hopefully people follow through and start to register them.

But yes, they were never legal bikes for trails, bike lanes, etc.

Equivalent sized gas-powered motorcycles and scooters are some of the most efficient vehicles on the road. The have the safety equipment mandated by the USDOT; they take up little space in parking lots and roads, and they get 100 miles to a gallon. They pay gas tax and registration, that help pay for roads. They have insurance to pay for damage to others. Take a look at all the cars and trucks on the roadway with one occupant, getting 15 to 30 MPG. The amount of space dedicated to their parking. The amount of pollution!

Electric motor scooters pay no road taxes, they ride wherever they want and have no insurance or safety equipment. Even a gas moped has to meet safety standards of USDOT, If e-motorbikes had to meet the same standards, they would cost twice as much.

 

[AvalancheRun]

Equivalent sized gas-powered motorcycles and scooters are some of the most efficient vehicles on the road. The have the safety equipment mandated by the USDOT; they take up little space in parking lots and roads, and they get 100 miles to a gallon. They pay gas tax and registration, that help pay for roads. They have insurance to pay for damage to others. Take a look at all the cars and trucks on the roadway with one occupant, getting 15 to 30 MPG. The amount of space dedicated to their parking. The amount of pollution!

Electric motor scooters pay no road taxes, they ride wherever they want and have no insurance or safety equipment. Even a gas moped has to meet safety standards of USDOT, If e-motorbikes had to meet the same standards, they would cost twice as much.

How about noise? Noise pollution is a health hazard. Most motorcycles make more noise than dozens of cars combined. In a city environment tens of thousands of people could be bothered by a single motorcycle.

Btw, I was in favor of legal registration for all vehicles that require it.

 

[Tom@WashDC]

They are electric motorcycles and should be registered as such if you intend to drive on the road or paved trails.

 

[J.R.]

How about noise? Noise pollution is a health hazard. Most motorcycles make more noise than dozens of cars combined. In a city environment tens of thousands of people could be bothered by a single motorcycle.

Btw, I was in favor of legal registration for all vehicles that require it.

I agree with you about registration. Most of those bikes will never be registered because they won't meet California DOT, or USDOT requirements. I'm afraid the horse is out of the barn on that. The only way to regulate them is through import laws and regulate sellers. Automobiles and motorcycles meet USDOT regulations before landing at our ports.

"Noise pollution" would have to be extreme and sustained to be a health hazard. As a manufacturing production manager, I would regularly oversee OSHA test the noise levels my employees would endure over an 8-hour day. Noise isn't pollution; pollution is the introduction of contaminants into the natural environment that cause adverse change. It is bothersome, as you say. The type of motorcycles discussed are below 125 cc and are not even as loud as a lawn mower and surely not any louder than a standard car. I am annoyed by some of the loudest cars and motorcycles. Millions of little 4-cylinder cars are altered and tuned to pop and growl louder than anything. And surely the loudest motorcycle isn't doing as much permanent damage as the dozen cars you mention, spewing out fumes.

I think I offended you, and that was not my intension. Motorcyclists are doing far more than any other motor vehicle driver on the road to limit their impact on the environment. They, like cyclists and ebikers are getting a bad wrap.

 

[K PierreR]

I am not sure there is any state that classifies a Sur Ron as anything but a dirt bike I first saw one about 8 years ago and my comment was "Son, that there's a dirt bike" They are not electric bicycles.
I was told that you could put pedals on it, de-tune it and ride it as an e bike. My comment was "You can do all those things to it but that thar's a dirt bike."

 

[Ken M]

1HP is equivalent to 750W which is the top for class 1-3. Maybe California requires license/registrationm etc for mopeds. Illinois does that.

It's not really a limit. If you read and understand the federal definition in HR727 you would understand it actually a motor rating which is actually very nebulous. Most engineers understand this but few others do (especially the lawyers that tell others that it's a power limit). The federal definition actually establishes a power limit above 20mph but few are technically savy enough to understand the constraints defined. It was written by a PhD electrical engineer who knew exactly what he was writing and didn't want to have an asist limit at 20mph as NHTSA was pushing to allow legal purview to transfer to the CPSC.

 

[AvalancheRun]

I agree with you about registration. Most of those bikes will never be registered because they won't meet California DOT, or USDOT requirements. I'm afraid the horse is out of the barn on that. The only way to regulate them is through import laws and regulate sellers. Automobiles and motorcycles meet USDOT regulations before landing at our ports.

"Noise pollution" would have to be extreme and sustained to be a health hazard. As a manufacturing production manager, I would regularly oversee OSHA test the noise levels my employees would endure over an 8-hour day. Noise isn't pollution; pollution is the introduction of contaminants into the natural environment that cause adverse change. It is bothersome, as you say. The type of motorcycles discussed are below 125 cc and are not even as loud as a lawn mower and surely not any louder than a standard car. I am annoyed by some of the loudest cars and motorcycles. Millions of little 4-cylinder cars are altered and tuned to pop and growl louder than anything. And surely the loudest motorcycle isn't doing as much permanent damage as the dozen cars you mention, spewing out fumes.

I think I offended you, and that was not my intension. Motorcyclists are doing far more than any other motor vehicle driver on the road to limit their impact on the environment. They, like cyclists and ebikers are getting a bad wrap.

Noise has long been accepted as a form of pollution. It actually does not have to be that extreme to have many negative health implications.

As an audio engineer, I disagree completely with OSHA because they are not based in science. OSHA is about minimizing monetary risk, not protecting hearing health. The CDC, EPA, NIOSH, WHO, etc. all have MUCH more conservative acceptable numbers.

Harvard Medicine: Noise pollution is more than a nuisance. It's a health risk

Effects of Motorcycle Noise on Annoyance—A Cross-Sectional Study in the Alps​

"Noise is a relevant problem to the public and to individuals. Noise pollution in Europe is regarded as a serious environmental problem [1], in Austria it is even the prior-ranked problem concerning environment conditions [2]. Noise has important health-related consequences such as ischemic heart disease, cognitive impairment in children, sleep disturbance, tinnitus and annoyance [3]. The effects of annoyance are particularly high in connection with traffic noise"

I think we can agree that motorcycles in many ways are a better alternative to cars, but noise is a serious externality that will not be fixed until electrification. The e-motorcycle field is unfortunately not very mature compared to electric cars.

 

[Moneo]

I agree with you about registration. Most of those bikes will never be registered because they won't meet California DOT, or USDOT requirements. I'm afraid the horse is out of the barn on that. The only way to regulate them is through import laws and regulate sellers. Automobiles and motorcycles meet USDOT regulations before landing at our ports.

"Noise pollution" would have to be extreme and sustained to be a health hazard. As a manufacturing production manager, I would regularly oversee OSHA test the noise levels my employees would endure over an 8-hour day. Noise isn't pollution; pollution is the introduction of contaminants into the natural environment that cause adverse change. It is bothersome, as you say. The type of motorcycles discussed are below 125 cc and are not even as loud as a lawn mower and surely not any louder than a standard car. I am annoyed by some of the loudest cars and motorcycles. Millions of little 4-cylinder cars are altered and tuned to pop and growl louder than anything. And surely the loudest motorcycle isn't doing as much permanent damage as the dozen cars you mention, spewing out fumes.

I think I offended you, and that was not my intension. Motorcyclists are doing far more than any other motor vehicle driver on the road to limit their impact on the environment. They, like cyclists and ebikers are getting a bad wrap.

EPA says otherwise. I appreciate the pollution/traffic benefits of motorcycles but noise pollution is real and pretending otherwise is ignorant.

 

[J.R.]

EPA says otherwise. I appreciate the pollution/traffic benefits of motorcycles but noise pollution is real and pretending otherwise is ignorant.

To suggest noise is pollution is a misunderstanding of the definition of the word pollution.

Noise can only be a heath concern if the noise level is extreme and sustained. There's a great deal of pseudoscience in the world today, I am not willing to get into a debate here over it. I've come here for the last 9 years as an escape from all that.

Live and let live. Enjoy the ride!

 

[AvalancheRun]

To suggest noise is pollution is a misunderstanding of the definition of the word pollution.

Noise can only be a heath concern if the noise level is extreme and sustained. There's a great deal of pseudoscience in the world today, I am not willing to get into a debate here over it. I've come here for the last 9 years as an escape from all that.

Live and let live. Enjoy the ride!

I didn't post here either with the intention of jumping into a debate. It seems like you are seriously downplaying the effects of noise by denying that it has any effect on people outside of extreme circumstances, and even denying that noise is a form of pollution.

That noise is pollution is accepted by every respected health organization in the world. In my post I replied with relevant data from Harvard Medicine, among other sources. Is the bias perhaps because you ride motorcycles? Riders, in my experience, reflexively dismiss and downplay the concerns of those that they subject to their noise.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

No doubt about it, these Surron-like "e-motos" are a public relations nightmare.

Here in coastal north San Diego County, most of the e-motos I see are on inland trails — including in nature preserves, where NO ebikes and often no bikes of any kind are allowed.

They're mostly ridden by male teens who probably live in surrounding neighborhoods. Nothing responsible about the way the e-motos are ridden. No respect whatsoever for traffic laws and common sense on pavement. The apparent rule is that you must ride wheelies, send dirt and gravel flying, or both whenever possible.

Problem is, other trail users instantly recognize them as electric on sound alone and then lump them in with all other electric bikes when it comes time to talk about ebikes. Talked to one friendly homeowner living next to a nature preserve trailhead. He was surprised to hear that my ebike can be pedaled.

 

[J.R.]

I didn't post here either with the intention of jumping into a debate. It seems like you are seriously downplaying the effects of noise by denying that it has any effect on people outside of extreme circumstances, and even denying that noise is a form of pollution.

That noise is pollution is accepted by every respected health organization in the world. In my post I replied with relevant data from Harvard Medicine, among other sources. Is the bias perhaps because you ride motorcycles? Riders, in my experience, reflexively dismiss and downplay the concerns of those that they subject to their noise.

We were discussing equivalent power motorbikes; 125 cc. None of them are loud.

 

[jabberwocky]

I've been told the e-motos like the Sur Ron and Talaria have become a real issue on the local MTB trails. Mostly younger riders brapping it up. There have been some police interactions with mixed responses (the usual young white dude "you can't tell me what to do!" along with some people seeming to genuinely not know they were not legal ebikes). Trail systems with a few locals poaching the trails have seen a shocking amount of damage. A friend who is a liaison was really ranting about them last time I talked to him; hes not happy to have spent a crapload of his effort and other peoples volunteer hours fixing trails torn up by a tiny handful of inconsiderate douchebags.

Will be interesting to see how things play out, but theres definitely a backlash building up and I just hope it doesn't sweep up the legit ebikes in it by the time its over with.