I'm pretty good at staying where I want to be, but sometimes mind is on other things so for awareness it's nice. Velocity is really of no value to me; I suppose if I'm in a 15 mph school zone I should care.
Cadence monitor
- Thread starter Roamers
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fooferdoggie
Well-Known Member
bla bla bla. most people don't know or care what their cadence is.
I plugged 60 and 90 cadence into the Bosch range estimator for several conditions. Typically 2.5 to 3 miles more at higher cadence. 5%ish improvement.
That is absolutely true. But, I have never found anyone that doesn't agree their riding is better at a higher cadence when they tried it; except the wife of one of my old riding buddies that we clocked at ~40 rpm typical.
Gionnirocket
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For most of my ride I try to maintain the highest cadence that I'm comfortable with. But I also enjoy "enjoying" my ride and if my mind wanders for a bit or I slow to appreciate the sun on my face or some cool shade in the heat of summer... I could care less what the number is or what the experts say is the most efficient.
fooferdoggie
Well-Known Member
for sure 400 watts at 80 rpm is work but not too bad 400 watts at 30 rpms is hard as hell.
Stefan Mikes
Gravel e-biker
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- Mazovia, PL
The stress on the chain is far lower at high cadence.
Gionnirocket
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So true... that and pedaling like a drowning mouse and going no where are my main reasons for riding.
Deacon Blues
Well-Known Member
A higher cadence is definitely easier on my old knees.
I used my Garmin cadence sensor for a while but no longer use it, as I now have a good idea what cadence works for me.
I used my Garmin cadence sensor for a while but no longer use it, as I now have a good idea what cadence works for me.
Interesting! I didn't know this and always inflate the tire based on the hand-sensing firmness. Would riding in lower psi cause any damage to the tire?I give you that.
Still, this reminds me people inflating their tyres without the manometer and sensing the pressure with their fingers"Oh! It is rock hard!" -- then you apply the manometer to find out their tyres are at 35 psi when they actually expect 65. Having the cadence meter in your e-bike makes you sure what you're doing. Needless to say, any mid-drive motor knows your cadence and input power at any single moment. It is only the OEM/motor maker who do not want you to see these values. (Or, require a costly upgrade so you can see the data).
fooferdoggie
Well-Known Member
I can squeeze my tires and see if they are low. but its hard if your doing multiple bikes. but it takes practice to do it. I squeeze and then check the pressure and I learn.
Gionnirocket
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I find a squeeze to be inaccurate to tell actual pressure. A difference of 10 or 15 psi is hard to discern on a tire in its recommended range. Works OK to check on being very low and accuracy can vary by tire and air temperature. Riding below recommended minimum can damage the tire sidewalls and tube.
fooferdoggie
Well-Known Member
I can usually get 10psi but its the same tires over and over. it is nto something you learn right away each bike I would have to do it over and over till I got the feel of it. I dont know on fatter tires though.
Stefan Mikes
Gravel e-biker
- Region
- Europe
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- Mazovia, PL
Any tyre type model has a range between its minimum and maximum allowable pressure, and that range is wide. The proper inflation pressure depends on so many factors! Let me list only a few of them:
- Generally, the heavier the rider is the higher pressure should be applied to avoid pinch flats (especially when riding on/off the curb, riding into a pothole, etc)
- Also generally, the higher the inflation pressure the lower rolling assistance it is (on a traditional bike, too low tyre pressure turns your bike into a snail; on an e-bike, it shortens your battery range)
- The lower the inflation pressure the better your ride is cushioned against rough road surface
- The lower the tyre pressure is the better traction you get.
Now, the modern concept of a tubeless wheel allows reducing the inflation pressure. There is no inner tube there, so you cannot get a pinch flat. Gravel or mountain bikers ride their tubeless tyres at lower pressure for better traction and/or better cushioning in rough terrain. It often happens an MTBer greatly reduces the inflation of his tyres before riding into a nasty singletrack, and then he re-inflates his wheel for a speedy ride on fire-roads (it is why the low-pressure MTB mini pumps are equipped with a manometer).
Let me give me you some practical examples:
- My Vado SL is a lightweight e-bike with a low power motor. It can ride fast on the pavement when its 38 mm wheels are inflated to 65 psi. However, reducing the pressure down to 45 psi makes riding on gravel/in the forest soft on that e-bike. Keeping the pressure at 45 psi for everyday urban rides makes feel Vado SL like it were a snail.
- My full power Vado is equipped with 2" tyres. Keeping them at 60 psi makes it feel a speedy machine on the pavement. Riding into the forest makes your body shake at such tyre pressure! I drop the pressure to 50 psi and the bike becomes comfy.
A good floor pump is typically equipped with a manometer. Or, electronic manometers are not expensive nowadays:
Schwalbe Airmax Pro
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Stefan Mikes
Gravel e-biker
- Region
- Europe
- City
- Mazovia, PL
Steve, let me tell you a story; it will be on a lighter note
When I was a young engineer, I got me a good American book from our R&D institute's library. The author wrote something like:
You can do many things by the judgement of your senses. It is not how we do it in America: we measure things.
That left me believe Americans liked measuring things. Perhaps I was wrong. Still, I cannot see the first man on the Moon without some measurements
Or, building a bridge. Or, making an e-bike, for one Brendon@OEB
Well-Known Member
It's definitely a labor intensive install. It's not "complicated" per se but you will probably have to drop the fork and motor to run the wires down there. Only gotta do it once though!!
When I got my C380+, I had ridden an EU spec ebike, and concluded that its 15.5mph assist limit made it of use only for hills. I was not an especially informed cyclist, and was frequently told that my cadence was too low, but I resisted that advice, and used some assist t oget up hills.
My first ride on my C380+ was a familiarization ride for the Enviolo, and my second was to see how hill climbing was. The Purion said I still had 3 bars of battery left, so I shouldn't need to recharge before a 12 mile ride on some hills, right?
Well, that turned out to be wrong! On my return leg, coming up to apass a T-junction where I wanted the comfort of knowing Turbo would be available, I selected Turbo with the range reading 2 miles, and the battery had no bars at all, no assist available, and that ws how I had to ride the last 2 miles home.
So where had all my electrons gone, why was I so poorly informed by my brand new ebike display, and why does my new bike have such a small battery at 500Wh and the 2nd battery kit is unavailable. I'm extremely disappointed.
I believe the electrons disappeared too quickly because my cadence was too low. Isuspect that the performance Line Speed motor is much the same as the CX, but is internally geared (or has some other design difference) so that it is more efficient at a higher cadence. My estimated average cadence was probably 43rpm. So I had to learn to raise that. Fewer difficulties now.
What was I so poorly informed by my display? I believe some US marketing guy thought the price point of the bike was too high and told Gazelle it would be fine to downgrade the EU standard Intuvia to a US standard Purion. If you look, you'll see this a lot of European imports of lots of products. The Purion can display Range, but it's quite difficult to bounce between Range and other readouts of interest. And the crude 0-5 bars display is essentially useless.
Why does my bike have such a small battery? Probably because either Bosch or Gazelle don't know or don't care how rapidly the battery on any Performance Line Speed motor can be consumed. Bosch does know, as they will tell you that only 32 miles might be the range with this setup, and in theory there is a dual battery kit available, so Bosch can sell more batteries. Gazelle may not know because the Netherlands is flat, so no hills, no problem.
And why is the dual batteyr kit unavailable? Maybe somebody told them that they'd never sell any so supply chain problems, just don't make any. If you can get one, then it's $150 or $200 price is a bargain.
All the electrical parts needed for a second battery are easy to get, making a nice stout bracket is hard, fittings the parts may be in your skill range, but your Gazelle dealer may tell you that they need to do it, or they'll have your Bosch warranty voided. Nice. Some dealers offer free labor on fitting if you buy the bike from them, but if you didn't, then they may well want $120/hour labor and won't know if they can complete the work in 4 hours.
If you want to fit an upgraded display, then you may be able to do that yourself, but you will have to remove and re-install a hydraulic brake line.
My first ride on my C380+ was a familiarization ride for the Enviolo, and my second was to see how hill climbing was. The Purion said I still had 3 bars of battery left, so I shouldn't need to recharge before a 12 mile ride on some hills, right?
Well, that turned out to be wrong! On my return leg, coming up to apass a T-junction where I wanted the comfort of knowing Turbo would be available, I selected Turbo with the range reading 2 miles, and the battery had no bars at all, no assist available, and that ws how I had to ride the last 2 miles home.
So where had all my electrons gone, why was I so poorly informed by my brand new ebike display, and why does my new bike have such a small battery at 500Wh and the 2nd battery kit is unavailable. I'm extremely disappointed.
I believe the electrons disappeared too quickly because my cadence was too low. Isuspect that the performance Line Speed motor is much the same as the CX, but is internally geared (or has some other design difference) so that it is more efficient at a higher cadence. My estimated average cadence was probably 43rpm. So I had to learn to raise that. Fewer difficulties now.
What was I so poorly informed by my display? I believe some US marketing guy thought the price point of the bike was too high and told Gazelle it would be fine to downgrade the EU standard Intuvia to a US standard Purion. If you look, you'll see this a lot of European imports of lots of products. The Purion can display Range, but it's quite difficult to bounce between Range and other readouts of interest. And the crude 0-5 bars display is essentially useless.
Why does my bike have such a small battery? Probably because either Bosch or Gazelle don't know or don't care how rapidly the battery on any Performance Line Speed motor can be consumed. Bosch does know, as they will tell you that only 32 miles might be the range with this setup, and in theory there is a dual battery kit available, so Bosch can sell more batteries. Gazelle may not know because the Netherlands is flat, so no hills, no problem.
And why is the dual batteyr kit unavailable? Maybe somebody told them that they'd never sell any so supply chain problems, just don't make any. If you can get one, then it's $150 or $200 price is a bargain.
All the electrical parts needed for a second battery are easy to get, making a nice stout bracket is hard, fittings the parts may be in your skill range, but your Gazelle dealer may tell you that they need to do it, or they'll have your Bosch warranty voided. Nice. Some dealers offer free labor on fitting if you buy the bike from them, but if you didn't, then they may well want $120/hour labor and won't know if they can complete the work in 4 hours.
If you want to fit an upgraded display, then you may be able to do that yourself, but you will have to remove and re-install a hydraulic brake line.
fooferdoggie
Well-Known Member
it takes time to learn how much range you can get and hills really throw it off. plus assist level cadance and speed all add up. as far as a second battery the motor has to be programmed by the manufacturer to run with a second battery. our gepeda tandem with designed for a second battery but it was not programmed for it so even with the hardware it wont run a second battery. a bosch rep may be able to change it but thats not a sure thing. like i am still waiting for the duel battery cable for my trek they ordered it it never shipped so I tried another place its on pre order. hopfully they will have it next week. but the treks are setup for it out of the factory.
My post was intended to be Gazelle specific. However I'm somewhat surprised by your Gepida difficulties. It presume you tried this, and it wouldn't work. And that you did avoid the 2 battery variants that cannot be used in a dual battery configuration, and that you did update the batteyr firmware on both batteries to be the same firmware revision.
What did it do when you attempted this? Did the display even show 2 batteries as present, and their charge levels? Did it give any assist at all, and from which battery?
What did it do when you attempted this? Did the display even show 2 batteries as present, and their charge levels? Did it give any assist at all, and from which battery?
fooferdoggie
Well-Known Member
we never hooked up the wiring for it sop the second battery is more just a holder. that works well as I don't always need the second battery so I don't have to charge both. Now my trek I am waiting on the battery Y wire to add the second battery. from what I have heard is bosch uses one battery at a tine. it switches back and forth between them. the display just shows the total together I think.
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