buying a new fat bike - questions and suggestions

[err144]

I am getting very close to buying something I know almost nothing about. I am thinking of buying a Juiced Bike RipCurrent S or an M2S All Terain 750.
I have never ridden a fatbike before
I have only ridden an ebike once before
I have ridden a normal quite a bit

I plan mostly “rails to trails” which is paved, crushed gravel and dirt. I would also like a little on-road and off road capability. I live in Pittsburgh PA area which is quite hilly and frequently wet. We have a few ebike store around but finding a bike that also has a throttle (which I really want) if hard to find.

Questions:

• How much difference does 52v make vs 48v? I see the marketing but would like to know real world experience.
• How well will these things do on long hills (1/2 mile or longer at 15%)? Would rarely do this but I don’t want to get stuck at the bottom.
• How hard are these to transport (car rack)? (thinking about one for my wife also)
• What kind of restrictions might I encounter on trails if I travel out of state?
• I am about 5’11” but would like to get a medium size so I could add a cushioned seat post which will add about 2 "– will the bike be too small?

My inclination is towards the Juiced bike as it has a rack, lights, 52v and both cadence and torque sensing. Am I putting too much value on these? The m2s bike would be about $400 cheaper I believe.

Thanks for any feedback

 

[hurricane56]

A 52v system is going to make a difference if you ride in the higher levels of assist for the majority of your ride. This is even more pronounced on ebikes with controllers that draw a high amperage. In a nutshell, once the controller calls for power to the motor, the number of amps drawn from the battery goes up and the voltage on the battery will go down when the motor is put under load. If you're typical bike rides are more of a gentle cruise, you might not notice much difference between a 52v and 48v system.

 

[Chris Hammond]

So there are a few benefits to 52V battery over the 48V. There is more power and more top speed with the 52V battery, but honestly that shouldn't be the reason for your decision. Its actually as the battery gets discharged where this becomes more important. As the voltage in the pack drops, performance begins to sag. In my experience at ~ 46V, this becomes a more significant problem at least on the CCS, and starts to affect the ride in a noticeable way. 46V is ~45% charge on a 48V battery, but only ~22% on the 52V pack.
The 52V battery gives you far more flexibility because of this to customize your charging. I nearly always charge to 80% to promote battery longevity and still get the performance of a 48V pack at 100% charge.
As far as hill climbing goes, you need to be realistic about your trail riding % here. The Juiced bikes are optimized to be high speed commuters. The trade off for that is low speed performance suffers. Many other ebikes are likely to have more torque and better performance climbing steep hills at low speed. If you really plan on doing a lot of low speed (<10 mph) trail riding, Juiced is probably not the right choice. In fact, if you do ride slow trails frequently a mid-drive bike is probably your best option. If its going to be rare, the Juiced bike will get the job done just fine. FWIW, I have a hill on one of my routes that maxes at 16% grade for a few hundred yards. I can ride up at ~10 mph with hard pedal effort on my part in 1st gear. A half mile at 15%???; I'd say you would want a smaller front chainring if you do it very often.
As far as transporting these bikes, they are HEAVY, the RCS is >70 lbs. Thus you'll want a good hitch rack; (no trunk racks or roof racks).
Expect being shunned or banned on dedicated mtb trails in many areas.
I'm 5-10". I bought a large frame which is fine but I'd get a medium if I ordered again.

 

[err144]

Thanks for all the input. That part about speed does concern me. I'm not a commuter who needs to get someplace fast. I doubt my average speed will exceed 15mph. The long steep hills are rare and I may try just a short steep hill before I find myself stuck.

Has anyone turned off the torque sensing on the juiced bikes because they prefer the cadence sensing ad why? I'm a bit concerned about M2S with only cadence but I have no experience with it yet.

thx

 

[erider_61]

Has anyone turned off the torque sensing on the juiced bikes because they prefer the cadence sensing ad why? I'm a bit concerned about M2S with only cadence but I have no experience with it yet. thx

I may be wrong but I believe it is a combined torque/cadence sensor on the Juiced bikes and turning off torque or cadence is not possible.

 

[err144]

The the online instructions & video suggest it is possible to turn off the torque sensor.

 

[Mike TowpathTraveler]

I've been riding fat bikes exclusively since late 2015 when I purchased a Specialized Fatboy, then from spring 2017 onto now, a Haibike Full FatSix. I'm in western NJ, near the Delaware River, right across from your homestate. Some great canal towpath riding in PA and NJ here, tailor made for a fatbike. Even at that, the majority of my accumulated miles on the Haibike are done on the asphalt roadways close to home; and it's here that it really shines on these frost heaved, ill maintained road surfaces. Tire pressure adjustments and/or shock pressures are key to that Cadillac ride.

So let me throw a wrench in your plans and ask to consider a quality mid-drive fatty. In this area, the players are Bosch, Yamaha and Brose. Your planned average mph equals what I am doing on the nearby canal towpaths, 10-13 mph. My Yamaha has a dual front chain ring that allows multiple gear ranges for any encountered road or trail situation. The Yamaha drive is probably the "mileage and range king" of just about any ebike on the market, from what I've personally experienced and from what I've read in these forums.

I'd love to see a real world-long term ride report on the various brands of ebikes and ebike drives here one of these days. For the record, my Full Fatsix has some 6200 miles on her; absolutely zero problems ever experienced with any drive or bike related component since putting her in service. The battery maintains the same range I've had on her on Day 1 and I ride it in our 4 seasons, through the high temps of summer to some bitter cold in winter. Though these bikes come at a high purchase costs, bargains are out there to be had. It's how I ended up with mine. Good luck and happy fatbiking whatever direction you choose to go; the stability and comfort of a fatbike is a game changer, the moment you roll those tires on down the road!

 

[hurricane56]

I've been riding fat bikes exclusively since late 2015 when I purchased a Specialized Fatboy, then from spring 2017 onto now, a Haibike Full FatSix. I'm in western NJ, near the Delaware River, right across from your homestate. Some great canal towpath riding in PA and NJ here, tailor made for a fatbike. Even at that, the majority of my accumulated miles on the Haibike are done on the asphalt roadways close to home; and it's here that it really shines on these frost heaved, ill maintained road surfaces. Tire pressure adjustments and/or shock pressures are key to that Cadillac ride.

So let me throw a wrench in your plans and ask to consider a quality mid-drive fatty. In this area, the players are Bosch, Yamaha and Brose. Your planned average mph equals what I am doing on the nearby canal towpaths, 10-13 mph. My Yamaha has a dual front chain ring that allows multiple gear ranges for any encountered road or trail situation. The Yamaha drive is probably the "mileage and range king" of just about any ebike on the market, from what I've personally experienced and from what I've read in these forums.

I'd love to see a real world-long term ride report on the various brands of ebikes and ebike drives here one of these days. For the record, my Full Fatsix has some 6200 miles on her; absolutely zero problems ever experienced with any drive or bike related component since putting her in service. The battery maintains the same range I've had on her on Day 1 and I ride it in our 4 seasons, through the high temps of summer to some bitter cold in winter. Though these bikes come at a high purchase costs, bargains are out there to be had. It's how I ended up with mine. Good luck and happy fatbiking whatever direction you choose to go; the stability and comfort of a fatbike is a game changer, the moment you roll those tires on down the road!

That’s a nice looking fatty eBike. There’s definitely other factors to consider when moving to a bigger brand and drive system. Even with torque sensor, I’d probably never ride my JuicedBike HF1000 off road. It lacks the subtlety and more granular control needed to navigate uneven surfaces. Drive systems by Yamaha, Bosch, Brose
all feel much more organic, and that gives you the confidence to be off pavement.

 

[hurricane56]

Juiced replaced the HF1000 with the HF1100.

Anyways, the HF1100 is not meant to go off road. It has slick tires and Juiced only show their test videos on the pavement, never off road.

Yes, the HF1100 is marketed as an on pavement bike. The HF1000 came with off road knobby tires.

 

[Mike TowpathTraveler]

Court "scouts" the small creek bed before he takes off in the RipCurrent S (minute 21:50)

Sure seemed to me that he had to put a lotta torque into the pedals in order to crest that "grade"! Not surprising, looking at that huge front chain ring and small rear cassette. How hot must that rear hub motor get when a person is out on some deep sugar sand roads, chugging along at 5-10 mph, for 5-10-20 miles? Climbing up a stiff trail grade? That bouncing gear chain is begging for a Haibike Bosch idler pulley arrangement. Bouncing up and down on trails is a fact of off roading life if you have enough speed and too much chain slack.

I do wonder and would like to read of the long term ownership reports of this particular fat tired ebike; how many miles on the odo, long term reliability running off road in all 4 seasons. Battery and motor life, long term, after thousands upon thousands are put on the drivetrain. Personally, I admire folks who put their name on the line like Mr Harris has done with his ebikes and wish him and his company nothing but success!

I'd be more concerned with the bike not with the cadence or torque sensor questions, or the tire tread design; but rather, is that front chain ring and rear gear cluster really conducive to smooth, powerful and energy-economic riding off road that does not stress out the motor and battery for the long term.

 

[CodyDog]

For me cadence versus Torque sensor is a big deal. I have a Rad Rover (cadence) and my wife has a Specialized Como 3.0 (torque). I prefer torque over cadence. Cadence delivers the power on simply a turn of the crank. So you can have it on level 5 and slowly pedal and you will be going 24 MPH (Rover on flat road). For exercise, I much prefer the torque sensor.

 

[Off road all day]

watt = amp × volt, or volt = watt divided by amp, or Amp = watt divided by volts. In other words it's an algebraic expression. change one side, the other side has to change to match.
I have a 24 volt, 450 watt motor with a 30 amp hour battery. I could go with a 48 volt, 30 amp hour battery, 450 watt motor but i would double the size and price of the battery, i've also doubled my range but i could have done the same by putting another 24 volt, 30 amp hour battery on the frame.
The voltage is going to make no difference
The difference you get is from large watt motors, large amp batteries and large amp draws. They equal out
The only possible %15 you can get from your bike is the efficiency of the motor not the hill, and i doubt that.