Brose compared to Bosch, Yamaha and STEPS

[MLB]

I tried BH and Bulls Brose also Ariel Rider.

I can say that brose is a good motor at the moment for cruising but not for hills. I feel the motor is kind of weak don't give enough torque. But hands down it is extremely silent and smooth .

So being silent and smooth isn't a major factory for a MTB but for commuting i will prefer Brose. I still advise to use Bosch at the moment especially for a MTB.

Shimano: This is a company if i have option will never ever use their products. They kill every small business and with their endless patents they prevent small companies to start-up. I watched a video a guy was complaining how much damage shimano is doing to bicycle market.

I am sure Brose will solve this issue as i talk with their engineer at Eurobike they told that in 2017 there will be a new software update which will increase the speed and torque of motor. Normally i wouldn't believe it but a company like brose who produced electric motors in millions of units, they have this capability. I think now brose is finding its path to understand what e-bike clients are looking for in a motor which is different from what car drivers are looking for in their window opening motor ....

(Link Removed - No Longer Exists)

Brose's mid drive is rated at 90nm of torque.
If I'm not mistaken, that's the strongest name brand mid drive out there.

 

[Helena Wolfenstein]

The torque rate is high but once you try it, you never feel the power . So for me i never trust the rated values . I see many bikes with range 100 miles, 35 mph etc... And most never provide it.

Also mid drive motors rate their torque with the help of rider's pedaling power (which is little cheesy )

 

[pxpaulx]

The torque rate is high but once you try it, you never feel the power . So for me i never trust the rated values . I see many bikes with range 100 miles, 35 mph etc... And most never provide it.

Also mid drive motors rate their torque with the help of rider's pedaling power (which is little cheesy )

that hasnt been my experience with my new bulls bike. i find it quite similar to my haibike yamaha sduro. i havent rode the bulls yet on one of the steeper hills in my area, but dont expect it to be any less powerful there either.

 

[Ann M.]

@Helena Wolfenstein what you are calling 'weak' may have nothing to do with the motor at all and probably has more to do with the torque sensors; the electronic sensors that measure when you are pedaling. At 90+ Nm force, the Brose motor is a very strong motor. Some torque sensors are programmed to respond with motor power only when they sense a strong push on the pedals; others are programmed a little differently. In addition, some of the torque sensors are now a combination of simple pedal motion sensors with the strain gauge type sensor.

So for a rider who spins lightly rather than stomping on the gears, some TMM type torque sensors don't read that pressure very well and seem to not respond much unless under a strong load. Many of the consoles used on ebikes now have the ability to reprogram the sensitivity of the torque sensor to compensate for that difference. I suggest you try evaluating the sensitivity of the torque sensor first.

 

[Helena Wolfenstein]

hmmm ann that can be true.

 

[bob armani]

I am in Kansas and Lenny's is my dealer as well. I just got back home last night 10hrs each way and worth every mile.

So you are going to have to drive 10hrs anytime you need to get your e-bike serviced?

 

[Chris Nolte]

So you are going to have to drive 10hrs anytime you need to get your e-bike serviced?

This is a common concern. We work with many remote customers and we find it pretty rare to need to bring your bike into an ebike dealer. Keep in mind the motor and batteries on these bikes generally don't need service so it's just a matter of general bike maintenance which most traditional bike shops can handle if you're not into it yourself.

 

[grench]

So you are going to have to drive 10hrs anytime you need to get your e-bike serviced?

I service the bike myself. If I need parts I get them mailed. The manufacture reps have helped with any diagnostic issues I have had. I guess if you can't perform basic bicycle maintenance this approach may not work for you???

 

[pxpaulx]

I service the bike myself. If I need parts I get them mailed. The manufacture reps have helped with any diagnostic issues I have had. I guess if you can't perform basic bicycle maintenance this approach may not work for you???

I do the same. After a conversation with the local dealers mechanic where I discovered he learnt everything from youtube anyway, I figured why the Heck would I pay someone to fix my bike when it is all fairly basic mechanical adjustments...youtube is great for all of it!

 

[Fey]

Can anyone help me make my mind up.
I'm buying my first ebike in the next couple of months, and I love the integrated look of the Brose system, and I have heard that they are really quiet, but some people have been annoyed by the lack of gear change sensing. Bosch are better supported and I am quite interested in some of the newer automatic geaar change systems from them and others. I've been looking at BH Revo range and I'm currently tossing up between a 27.5 hardtail or a cross.

Has anyone compared Brose to the rest? Reliability is a big issue because I'm in New Zealand where we have a Very limited range of bikes to choose from, so I'm going to have to go over to Australia to do my final selection.

Thanks

Distribution of BULLS in Australia and New Zealand:

Mr. Karl Bull
BULLSPORTS
Distribution/Sales (NZ/AU)
Taupo, 3330, New Zealand
Email: [email protected]
Web: www.bullsbikes.co.nz
Phone: +6421 607 650

 

[MLB]

The torque rate is high but once you try it, you never feel the power . So for me i never trust the rated values . I see many bikes with range 100 miles, 35 mph etc... And most never provide it.

Also mid drive motors rate their torque with the help of rider's pedaling power (which is little cheesy )

Key word: YOU never feel the power.
I'm positive that 1/2 the test riders of Bosch and similar systems never feel the power because they NEVER PEDAL HARD ENOUGH to trigger full power.
This is a sophisticated system with a very good torque sensor setup. Many many people simply never work hard enough to be rewarded by full power.
That was true of my Haibike as we have very little hills here and only by climbing out of some deep drainage ditches with steep sides AND peddling very hard was I able to finally experience the torque my Bosch system actually does have.
Cheap bikes (and other designs) give you full power easily. What lots of us like about the more sophisticated systems is you have to earn that power.
Try it again and pedal as hard as you can to see some of what the bike can really do.

And no, mid drives are not rated using the gearing.

 

[Helena Wolfenstein]

If i have to earn that power by pedaling that harder, then i question what is the use of having an electric bike. In high pedal assist mode i prefer not to have difficulty climbing uphill.

The system can be sophisticated but sometimes perfection comes from simplicity.

In low pas modes if system don't provide enough power and i depend on pedaling i can easily accept it. but if in high pas level i still depend on pedalling then i see no use of having one electric bike.

Let's all be smart buyers. Because something is branded or produced by a know company, don't mean it is good.

Bosch also has to earn our bucks.

Mercedes before make an electric bike, so does Smart (belong to Mercedes) and neither i liked as they were not good bikes. I haven't and will not appreciate a system or product based on the label.

If you are satisfied with Bosch, then good for you. I gave my honest opinion and i won't pay more than $2000 for any bosch e-bike system (exception is Haibike).

 

[MLB]

And if you have such a strong e motor that you don't even have to work, I question what the good is in riding it?
Some of us love to bicycle and we only want and need a slight extra shove to be very happy.
Why do so many have to have the "strongest" or 'it's not good'.
Different strokes......................................
I"ve had expensive and I've had cheap and the good ones are WAY, way better.
If the cheapies that help you not have to work are satisfying for you, then good for you.

PS - I paid less than 2k for the best system (IMO) out there. Haibike.

 

[pxpaulx]

And if you have such a strong e motor that you don't even have to work, I question what the good is in riding it?
Some of us love to bicycle and we only want and need a slight extra shove to be very happy.
Why do so many have to have the "strongest" or 'it's not good'.
Different strokes......................................
I"ve had expensive and I've had cheap and the good ones are WAY, way better.
If the cheapies that help you not have to work are satisfying for you, then good for you.

PS - I paid less than 2k for the best system (IMO) out there. Haibike.

100% agreed! including the prices comment To be perfectly honest, i dont understand why if you'd want to go faster than 20mph (ok speed pedelecs excluded), you dont just buy a motorcycle! they can be a lot cheaper too. for me, i am just looking for some assist riding a bike, i dont want something that will carry me around and only give the appearance of riding a bike.

 

[yeosteve]

I've just spent my first week riding my ne Bulls E-Stream Evo 3 27.5 and it's fantastic. I can't hear the motor at all, and I've learned to get the best from the Brose system I have to keep my cadence regular and apply more pressure when going up hills or into the wind. For around town or regular riding I use the lowest power, sometimes the mid range, because without the pressure from my legs the motor cuts in and out, so it's much smoother with lower power. I use high power when taking off, especially if I'm surrounded by other commuter cyclists (not that I'm competitive J). Once I got used to the extra weight I found the handling is better than any bike I have ridden. My wife got the same bike, and we now ride together everywhere at 25k.

 

[yeosteve]

And if you have such a strong e motor that you don't even have to work, I question what the good is in riding it?

With the Brose system you only get support in proportion to the effort you put in, so I can choose how much exercise I need while being able to tackle the hills I had given up on. I'm getting a lot more exercise becaue I now use my bike every day, rather than only flat rides in the weekends.

 

[E-Wheels]

Hi MLB, I too have read of some issues people have had with Brose. Also I have read some issues some people have had with Bosch and every other ebike motor manufacturer. The motor is based on Brose technology produced for the automotive industry millions of times already. Take a look at: http://www.brose-ebike.com/en/the-motor/
Any issues can be resolved with your supplier. Brose are rolling out new service centres worldwide. There will soon be one in Australia and New Zealand!

Karlos,
Any updates on who/where the Bulls agents are in Australia

 

[karlos]

Karlos,
Any updates on who/where the Bulls agents are in Australia

We do not have any Bulls agents in Australia at this time. We are currently selling direct into Australia from our website www.bullsbikes.co.nz

 

[karlos]

Hi Karlos-I am interested in purchasing a BULLS with the Brose motor, however I am hesitant without a local dealer her in the US (Chicago IL). Any idea if a Bulls dealer will be in this neck of the woods anytime soon?

Hi Bob - sorry I have only just got this message. Bulls Bikes USA should be able to help you out. Speak to Fernando, he'll point you in the right direction and is great to deal with. The website is wwwbullsebikes.com or follow (Link Removed - No Longer Exists) for a link to the dealers in your area. Thanks!

 

[E-Wheels]

We do not have any Bulls agents in Australia at this time. We are currently selling direct into Australia from our website www.bullsbikes.co.nz

Karlos,
Any ideas how buyers in Australian will be supported after the sale without local BULLS representation
Do you have, or can you arrange alliances with local bike shops for Brose firmware upgrades, servicing & maintenance etc