Brilliant engineering behind Tesla Model 3's motor

[Ravi Kempaiah]

I see that off-topic threads are mostly political but something related to EVs would be nice.
My friend runs a pretty awesome YouTube channel and he released this superb video explaining the engineering behind Tesla Model 3's motor.
I learned quite a bit from this and I hope others may find it useful as well.

 

[FlatSix911]

I see that off-topic threads are mostly political but something related to EVs would be nice.
My friend runs a pretty awesome YouTube channel and he released this superb video explaining the engineering behind Tesla Model 3's motor.
I learned quite a bit from this and I hope others may find it useful as well.

Very interesting... thanks for sharing.

Now if Elon, would just release the Model S Tri-motor!

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

Now if Elon, would just release the Model S Tri-motor!

It will be interesting to see that for sure.
I think a similar motor configuration will be used in the upcoming roadster model as well.

 

[Ebiker01]

Ty for posting it . I need to get more shares !

Q: How far behind are our ebikes hub motors vs an IPMSynRm ? But as cars also have wheel hubs , are those motors considered hub motors/ mid drive motors or smthng. else ?

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

Ty for posting it . I need to get more shares !

Q: How far behind are our ebikes hub motors vs an IPMSynRm ? But as cars also have wheel hubs , are those motors considered hub motors/ mid drive motors or smthng. else ?

In the E-bike terminology, IPMSynRm would be a special kind of mid-drive motor!
But, unlike the mid-drives in the E-bike world that can make use of the cassette (transmission), the induction motor or the IPMSynRM makes use of just single-speed transmission.
Porsche Taycan has a two-speed transmission but the Porsche drivetrain + battery is much less efficient than Tesla.

 

[cldlhd]

In the E-bike terminology, IPMSynRm would be a special kind of mid-drive motor!
But, unlike the mid-drives in the E-bike world that can make use of the cassette (transmission), the induction motor or the IPMSynRM makes use of just single-speed transmission.
Porsche Taycan has a two-speed transmission but the Porsche drivetrain + battery is much less efficient than Tesla.

How much less? The real world tests that I've seen showed that the Porsche is much more efficient than what the EPA test seems to represent.

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

How much less? The real world tests that I've seen showed that the Porsche is much more efficient than what the EPA test seems to represent.

Jason from Engineering Explained has made a detailed video on the efficiency of the Taycan and EPA ratings suggest that its very inefficient compared to other EVs. Where it really shines is its ability to do laps after laps on the track and has a slightly better driving characteristics than a Tesla Model S .

 

[cldlhd]

Jason from Engineering Explained has made a detailed video on the efficiency of the Taycan and EPA ratings suggest that its very inefficient compared to other EVs. Where it really shines is its ability to do laps after laps on the track and has a slightly better driving characteristics than a Tesla Model S .

Thanks for the link. I know it's more inefficient going by the EPA I'm just saying there have been a lot of people on EV websites who own them and drive them in the real world and get much better numbers than the EPA test. Well that's sort of to be expected just like what a gas car when the thing has fatter stickier tires and is designed for performance efficiency will take a hit. Horses for courses

 

[Sierratim]

I see that off-topic threads are mostly political but something related to EVs would be nice.
My friend runs a pretty awesome YouTube channel and he released this superb video explaining the engineering behind Tesla Model 3's motor.
I learned quite a bit from this and I hope others may find it useful as well.

Fun video.

If I'm remembering correctly, one of Tesla's original 'claims to fame' was that it did not need high strength/rare earth magnets making it immune to embargoes on their availability. The new motor design is basically a nod to the performance advantages that the magnets bring, but puts Tesla at the same exposure to magnet availability as every other manufacturer, does it not?

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

The new motor design is basically a nod to the performance advantages that the magnets bring, but puts Tesla at the same exposure to magnet availability as every other manufacturer, does it not?

If I am reading your statement clearly, you mean to say the magnets bring advantages?
The IPMSynRM motor has fewer amount of rare earth magnets than the permanent magnet (PM) motors.
I believe Tesla has VERY large contracts for every single component and they build the motors in-house.
Apple changed the world of smartphones as we know it. Until that point, Nokia and Blackberry-like phones of the world with QWERTY keyboard ruled the market. Even though capacitative touch technologies had existed for a long time, Apple changed the way people use phones by combining an App store + iOS and a beautiful screen. Apple also has deep vertical integration that allows them to build chips, sensors, screens with very tight control and seamless integration with their eco-system (iOS, Appstore, Facetime, iMessage, etc.)
Just like that, Tesla is deeply vertically integrated, and they control the hardware, battery production, and most importantly, the autonomous driving software that sets Tesla apart from the rest of the industry.

 

[cldlhd]

If I am reading your statement clearly, you mean to say the magnets bring advantages?
The IPMSynRM motor has fewer amount of rare earth magnets than the permanent magnet (PM) motors.
I believe Tesla has VERY large contracts for every single component and they build the motors in-house.
Apple changed the world of smartphones as we know it. Until that point, Nokia and Blackberry-like phones of the world with QWERTY keyboard ruled the market. Even though capacitative touch technologies had existed for a long time, Apple changed the way people use phones by combining an App store + iOS and a beautiful screen. Apple also has deep vertical integration that allows them to build chips, sensors, screens with very tight control and seamless integration with their eco-system (iOS, Appstore, Facetime, iMessage, etc.)
Just like that, Tesla is deeply vertically integrated, and they control the hardware, battery production, and most importantly, the autonomous driving software that sets Tesla apart from the rest of the industry.

I think the whole Apple comparison is way overdone, along with the whole putting "vertical integration" on a pedestal. Henry Ford went that route 100 years ago

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

I think the whole Apple comparison is way overdone, along with the whole putting "vertical integration" on a pedestal. Henry Ford went that route 100 years ago

Thanks for your opinion! You may be right.

1. No other electronics company could have done (or has not done it!) what Apple did with their M1 silicon chips based on ARM architecture.
   Without tight vertical integration at every level, that kind of stuff is just quite hard to do. Everyone seems to be super impressed by the performance of M1.
   
   
2. Ford did not have to compete against Rockefeller to drill oil and produce products. 5 years ago, every news media was rallying against Tesla.
   They would say, just wait until Ford, BMW, Porsche, Audi starts making EVs and they would leave Tesla in the dust.
   In 2020, see where they are. They are now realizing that without having deep roots in battery production, competing in the EV segment is too difficult. You can not simply make an EV like a gasoline car.
   They all have rolled back their "optimistic" targets and now investing huge money into battery production, which Tesla did back in 2013 in the form of Gigafactory. Every CEO is now applauding what Tesla did and how they opened up a new era of electrified transportation.

 

[Sierratim]

If I am reading your statement clearly, you mean to say the magnets bring advantages?
The IPMSynRM motor has fewer amount of rare earth magnets than the permanent magnet (PM) motors.
I believe Tesla has VERY large contracts for every single component and they build the motors in-house.
Apple changed the world of smartphones as we know it. Until that point, Nokia and Blackberry-like phones of the world with QWERTY keyboard ruled the market. Even though capacitative touch technologies had existed for a long time, Apple changed the way people use phones by combining an App store + iOS and a beautiful screen. Apple also has deep vertical integration that allows them to build chips, sensors, screens with very tight control and seamless integration with their eco-system (iOS, Appstore, Facetime, iMessage, etc.)
Just like that, Tesla is deeply vertically integrated, and they control the hardware, battery production, and most importantly, the autonomous driving software that sets Tesla apart from the rest of the industry.

I understand. But it does seem to me that the new motor design exposes Tesla to the whims of the governments that control the bulk of the rare earth minerals market, contracts or not. Just sayin'.

 

[cldlhd]

Thanks for your opinion! You may be right.

1. No other electronics company could have done (or has not done it!) what Apple did with their M1 silicon chips based on ARM architecture.
   Without tight vertical integration at every level, that kind of stuff is just quite hard to do. Everyone seems to be super impressed by the performance of M1.
   
   
2. Ford did not have to compete against Rockefeller to drill oil and produce products. 5 years ago, every news media was rallying against Tesla.
   They would say, just wait until Ford, BMW, Porsche, Audi starts making EVs and they would leave Tesla in the dust.
   In 2020, see where they are. They are now realizing that without having deep roots in battery production, competing in the EV segment is too difficult. You can not simply make an EV like a gasoline car.
   They all have rolled back their "optimistic" targets and now investing huge money into battery production, which Tesla did back in 2013 in the form of Gigafactory. Every CEO is now applauding what Tesla did and how they opened up a new era of electrified transportation.

Personally I think VAG is doing pretty well with their new push into EVs. My wife isn't even into the subject and is thinking about an ID4. There's a definite price advantage, plus the Mach-e is pretty good for a first real effort. I'm just saying it can go too far, like Tesla doesn't make it's own tires, there's lots of other parts not made in house but I understand the important parts are. Looks like the computer on wheels approach might bite them a little with the MCU recall though.

 

[pmcdonald]

Yes, its going to get a whole lot more interesting for consumers over the next couple of years.

This is Norway's 2020 vehicle sales tally, as of November last year:

Source: https://ev-sales.blogspot.com/2020/12/norway-november-2020.html?m=1

Norway has long been a proving ground for EV manufacturers. Note the Euro and Asian challengers are rising fast.

I welcome the competition. In Australia a base Tesla 3 costs $72k on-road. That puts it squarely in the realm of the prestige brands (Audi, BMW, Merc, Lexus). I understand the high price is closely pegged to the battery range, but it's good to finally see more budget-friendly options begin to land on our market such as the VW and MG.

 

[Johnny]

No other electronics company could have done (or has not done it!) what Apple did with their M1 silicon chips based on ARM architecture.
Without tight vertical integration at every level, that kind of stuff is just quite hard to do. Everyone seems to be super impressed by the performance of M1.

This is not true. As a matter of fact Microsoft Surface actually did it a year ago with the pro X series. Their only problem was not implementing 64bit x86 emulation support (which they did recently) other than that it was a big step forward, they were the first to do it.

So there is a move to ARM at the moment for lightweight ultrabooks. There are things that it does very well for the power consumption however there is still several years until one can use all the applications they are using on a x86 processor on these machines.

 

[Ebiker01]

Personally I think VAG is doing pretty well with their new push into EVs. My wife isn't even into the subject and is thinking about an ID4. There's a definite price advantage, plus the Mach-e is pretty good for a first real effort. I'm just saying it can go too far, like Tesla doesn't make it's own tires, there's lots of other parts not made in house but I understand the important parts are. Looks like the computer on wheels approach might bite them a little with the MCU recall though.

Yes, they should have changed all MCU' sawhile ago . It's probably 75-90$/piece but most likely they don't have enough workers+time to do the retrofit that's why they have never done it. Now they have to do it.

With the latest FSD beta in Us ,Tesla is basically sending to the junkyard all other cars. And that's in beta mode !! In few months Canada+Eu will get it also.

They will probably license the FSD to other companies and T will probably be a 5 -10 trillion $ company in a few years.

Powerwall/Semi's/Gigafactory in India soon/Cybertruk, the under 25k Ev/ the roadster/ the S plaid tri-motor/ The new4860 battery, lots of things going on !

I don't see any other company that can catch up with them ; they will compete for a very distant second place. Maybe Apple but they are way too late.

Most will continue driving the horse until they enlighten themselves or the law will ban it .

 

[cldlhd]

Yes, they should have changed all MCU' sawhile ago . It's probably 75-90$/piece but most likely they don't have enough workers+time to do the retrofit that's why they have never done it. Now they have to do it.

With the latest FSD beta in Us ,Tesla is basically sending to the junkyard all other cars. And that's in beta mode !! In few months Canada+Eu will get it also.

They will probably license the FSD to other companies and T will probably be a 5 -10 trillion $ company in a few years.

Powerwall/Semi's/Gigafactory in India soon/Cybertruk, the under 25k Ev/ the roadster/ the S plaid tri-motor/ The new4860 battery, lots of things going on !

I don't see any other company that can catch up with them ; they will compete for a very distant second place. Maybe Apple but they are way too late.

Most will continue driving the horse until they enlighten themselves or the law will ban it .

The horse/ car comparison is WAY different than Tesla/ other cars. FSD has been hyped forever, always going to be 100% " very soon" and it's not as if other companies aren't heavily invested in similar technology. My car can get me where I go just as quickly and comfortably as a Tesla the same can't be said for a horse compared to a car.
The idea that everyone who doesn't worship at the altar of Elon is a Luddite is one reason many people don't want a Tesla.

 

[Ebiker01]

This is Norway's 2020 vehicle sales tally, as of November last year:

I think that the a lot of those buyers they went with the brand that they were in love with b4 Tesla but they didn't realize that the range it's very important; basically in the winter the range will drop probably up to 30% less , maybe up to 50% if you have a lot of weight on the car , Sweden\Norway winter and a hilly terrain.

All those EV's have less then 250 miles range ( most top at 200miles) . Tesla 3 LR has 355miles of range . Audi E tron has 200miles range and is a lot heavier.

4031lb vs 5699lb !!!

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[Ebiker01]

comparison is WAY different than Tesla/ other cars. FSD has been hyped forever, always going to be 100% " very soon" and it's not as if other companies aren't heavily invested

You're living in the past.

https://mobile.twitter.com/hashtag/fsdbeta?src=hashtag_click