Bosch motor won't power up

[Peter J]

No, I don't know what resetting does, and I would like to know. It seems noteworthy that after 5 seconds the lights responded, then responded again after 10 seconds. Is holding the battery button for 5 second a different instruction than a 10 second hold?

I do know that my bike worked fine with a second battery, and showed the non-starting fault only with the original battery. So to me, the fault could quite possibly exist in the battery.

 

[Scooteretti]

Issues with Bosch systems are very rare and while some experience some issues it’s one of the most reliable systems currently available. When our clients run into issues the most common problems are poor connections due to lack of cleaning. Using a good quality “safe for plastics” contact cleaner will ensure that the contacts on your bike remain clean and produce a good contact between components.

*NOTE: Never spray anything or touch anything on the battery connectors. Did I say NEVER do this? There is a lot of energy there and this is not something you want to touch at anytime unless you have been properly trained.

Some of the Intuvia control units (where the +, - and i buttons are located) did have an issue several years ago and were typically replaced or simply just required a software update to correct. Replacement was pretty rare though.

An issue we saw when we had other brands come into the show was because of the dealer assembly where some dealers simply overtightened the display unit mount (this just needs to be lightly tightened to 1 Nm). Some bikes also had an issue with the type of handlebars that were used as there was a curvature / taper on the handlebar, right where the display mounts to which caused the display the flex. This was not a Bosch issue but rather an issue with the type of components used on the bike. Live and learn thing.

 

[MarkE]

Hey all, was riding my Bosch powered bike on commute today. Half way, during a break, I was checking on number of hours used, and then powered off to reset and restart. The computer came back on, but in attempting to switching up to Eco or higher, it simply wouldn't go.woild flash Eco and then back to off. Tried powering off, resetting, no luck. Still had about 1/2 battery charge. No error messages appeared (in fact, i have never seen one).

Some details - have had it for just over 2 years and 2 months, over 9000km, and battery has 393 hours. Its a 2016 Cube Touring Hybrid Pro with 400 powerpack.

Any thoughts? Will be calling the shop tomorrow, but searching for any ideas.

Hello,

My experience with haibike with Bosch motors is that even dealers do not have the level of experience to debug many of these connection issues. My all mtn 2015 experienced the exact same issue. The power would not advance. You can get it to work by pulling the battery and controller and then resetting a few times but it’s intermittent at best. My solution was very simple. There is a small battery in the intuvia controller. It’s a rechargeable 3.7v 240mAh battery and if it spikes or glitches it will prevent power from advancing. The solution is to swap that controller out and test it. My bike would fail after a period of time but when I swapped out the controller all those issues vanished. There is also a procedure for changing the intuvia battery on the net but will void the warranty as Bosch in their infinite wisdom has put a couple of safety screws that you must drill out or melt with a soldering gun before you can remove. I have 4400 miles on my AllMtn and I guess they figure riders will pop for a 100 dollar controller vs changing a $4 battery. Bosch is also not responsive to direct question and I had to scour the web before I figured it out.


Here is the link:

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=65685

Good luck!

 

[Scooteretti]

All,

On all the Bosch bikes I have ever worked on, I have never, ever had to replace or attempt to replace a battery in the Intuvia display. The most likely issue is the control unit mentioned above along with a Bosch software update and you'll be good to go.

 

[MarkE]

All,

On all the Bosch bikes I have ever worked on, I have never, ever had to replace or attempt to replace a battery in the Intuvia display. The most likely issue is the control unit mentioned above along with a Bosch software update and you'll be good to go.

Well it’s a common problem and the 640 error will not necessarily show up. If you controllers fails after certain amount of time it’s likely the small battery. I’m not advocating removing it but since many dealers and Bosch themselves just look at the age of the bike(mine 2015) and conclude it’s out of warranty they opt just to replace it If they can figure it out. Most can’t. I had to debug it myself. From my propective a rechargeable battery should be able to be replaced. If they want to secure the pcb and pic chip than that’s fine but a rechargeable battery should be replaceable. I estimate it’s cycled less than 250 times which is 50% of the rated cycle life of the main battery. I am riding mostly single track trails in dry but dusty conditions.

 

[MattyB]

All -
I'm currently experiencing several of the above problems, but I could not find my specific situation with the Bosch Intuvia Display or Display Holder failure.

For some background. Our family of four has one car and we ride our 2 kids (3 and 6) to school (rain, snow, and even sun!) in/on a Butchers and Bicycles MK1-E cargo bike. The bike/ trike comes equipped with The Bosch system. We live in Western NC about 45 minutes from Asheville. If you know the area, it is both hilly (known for great mountain biking) and rainy (so the above mentioned moisture is part of our problem). We bought our bike used from a family with similar practices, but in coastal NH. The bike is 2 1/2 years old but has been ridden nearly everyday since its arrival from Europe.

Our situation (is it unique or can y'all help me find more information)...
A previous entry mentioned that the display has spring loaded contacts on the back of it. Well, in our situation, two of the contacts have been depressed, but they do not spring back to normal.
Not mentioned in any previous entry is that the contacts on the display holder are also spring loaded. Because we bought our bike used, I don't know if you are supposed to be able to depress the contacts and have them return proud. If anyone is able to do so, we are not. So, the only way that I know that the contacts are spring loaded is because I have had two of the seven contacts spring out at me (during drop off at kindergarten) when I removed the display to problem solve the computer shutoff issues that started this initial conversation. Interestingly, the two contacts that won't spring back (on display) are opposite of the two contacts (on display holder) that sprung out of their housing.
Another symptom to add to the above comments is that we've experienced our lights not turning on consistently when we press the button on the display.

Ideas...
Because this bike was a daily driver in New England, we have extra corrosion and the parts are just wearing out.
Because we are only a few inches shy of a temperate rain forest, water on the contacts has made matters worse.

Attempts...
I tried to get the display contacts to spring back to their natural location by depressing them further. This did not work. I have not tried to take apart the display.
I tried to reinsert the contacts in the display holder and they just pop back out.

My questions...
Has anyone had contacts that stick in the depressed position?
Has anyone had contacts that spring entirely out of their housing?
Is it possible to correct either of the two above situations?
Does the corrosion concept have any truth?
We're about to purchase a new display and a new display holder. I believe replacing these will solve the problem. Any thoughts?
If replacing the display and display holder, is there any reason to take it to a shop?

Thank you,
Matthew

 

[rich c]

Add me to the list. Went for a ride yesterday with a fully charged battery. About 6 miles in I stopped at a LBS and powered off. Came out and the display and battery turned on, but the mph readout did not, and could not change assist modes. No power to the motor. The display was suspect because of my son's crash on the Haibike last June. He sheared off the two thin retaining strips on the display. I've held it together with 2 zip ties and the locking bolt since. Rode the 5 miles home with no assist. Changed out the display with another from a second Haibike. No changes. Switched the battery over to the second Haibike with the good display, no changes. Cleaned the contacts on both displays with a pencil eraser, no change. Later that night I put the battery on the charger for 30 minutes, put it on the first Haibike with the zip tie display, everything powered up. Powered up fine for at least 4 attempts. Rode with that setup for 8.5 miles today, no trouble. Shut it off when I got home, back to the trouble. Tried to power up again after an hour, everything powered up. A thermal issue? So far it only happens after riding for some time. I'm talking about a 2016 XDURO Full Seven S RX. 400wh pack, 2,500 miles on the Full Seven. I do swap a 500wh pack back and forth with the 400wh on this Full Seven, and a 2016 XDURO Trekking S RX. 2,600 on that bike.Talked to the dealer where I purchased it and they suggested getting a local diagnostic as they are 200 miles away. I will put the 400wh on the Trekking bike with the good display and ride for 10 miles and then check if the thermal issue shows up on that bike. Sorry about the back and forth with the two bikes and two displays, almost need a spread sheet to show the combinations! LOL

 

[SuperH]

I had this happen to me twice. Once shortly after I got the bike... then I started pedaling it without the assist as I had to get home - and it just reactivated. Thankfully, I use this for convenience commuting (mostly in inclement weather or when I need to pick up very heavy stuff), and I am fortunately a very strong cyclist, as I have five other bikes without motors that I put 10,000-20,000 miles a year on - with about 2,000 miles going onto my electric bike.

Although I don't *need* the motor, some of our grades around Seattle are 10%-20%, so it is quite laborious to pedal my Trek XM700+ without the assist at anything exceeding about 12% - the bike's gearing is not supportive of the required cadence once you account for the total weight. It's just no fun.

Anyway - the second time this happened was this past Friday, when it was POURING down rain. I found this thread and tried everything in the book. I didn't bring any cycling gear, so I was in no situation to "push hard" in denim and a polo that were covered by rain outerwear. Short of crying, I thought about things from an Electrical Engineering perspective - system initialization. I actually registered so I could post this, hoping that it may help someone in the event this is their only bike and they are in a situation where they need the assist. We don't get these things to be stranded; we get these things to move!

All I did was this (granted, it was one time - so as with anything, your mileage may vary - pun intended...)
1. Turn on the display, work the controls on the display - note no speed indicator. Make sure the display is fully nested.
2. Turn on the battery manually (after turning on the display) by using the power button on the battery.
3. Wait a few seconds. The speed showed up (0mph), and I was able to use the bike as normal.

I didn't see this sequence explicitly mentioned.

I hope that it works for other people who might otherwise be stranded.

That said - I don't plan for this to be my last post. I ran into someone this weekend with a Bosch system who had replaced his Intuvia with a mobile phone - and that system worked quite well. Now I'm interested in learning more. It seems that with patience and a desire to mod, you can do quite a bit with electric bikes!

Final point - with that said, if you do encounter this issue and my method (or any other method) works - PLEASE post about it as it may well help others (especially if this works reliably). Nobody should ever be left stranded. It is frustrating - and can be outright scary if the conditions warrant that.

 

[webcurl]

I carry a small Isopropyl Alcohol wipe with me for if this happens, it's happened once:- cleaned the contacts of the Intuvia mount & the Intuvia itself and all was good to go again. When starting my Intuvia, "Performance CX" briefly pops up on the display, if this doesn't pop up then i know the Intuvia is not connected properly.

 

[Saratoga Dave]

That sounds like a good idea. Being added to my handlebar bag.

I’m getting ready to go across most of the Erie Canal again after having such a good time in October 2017. That time it was a broken spoke, maybe this will help avoid a recurrence of this issue 300 miles from home.

 

[Amped Animal]

I've been discouraged by the lack of knowledgeable support from the shop I bought this bike from. So far all the shop can offer is alcohol clean contacts or PAY FOR SOFTWARE UPDATE?
Riding over bumps would lead to loss of speedometer and power. Sometimes even full shutdown requiring a power button press. My experience(and workaround, because mine drops out at least a dozen times a ride) is to firmly, quickly slide the unit forward a 1/4" and back into locked position. Quickly, is the key, I've discovered. If the bike drops power while underway I can usually get an almost instant return with this act, (full shutdown another matter) it totally stems from an intermittency in the 7 contact mount. My conclusions stem from this: I used to just keep pedalling until another bump brought it back. Then discovered workaround. Then for diagnostic curiosity when it happened I pulled over sat 2 minutes, no change. Then I gently knuckle tapped the display, the speedometer flashed on, showing the speed I had been going, before quickly resetting to zero and I was good to go.
After following threads and seeing Cube mentioned multiple times along with the mention of a gentle mounting-torque spec. I studied the mount on mine. It straddles the stem with the mounting clamps either side. 1st of all mine is not centered, 2nd the bars engage in a steep taper when leaving the stem. And guess where these torsionally stiff mounting pillars are... You guessed it, on the taper.
Not centered, perhaps overtightened could indeed put torsional stresses on the mount causing it to be something other than flat. The engineering behind the contact springs is inadequate to deal with such a situation it appears. Anyways keep you informed on how this goes.

 

[Amped Animal]

Issues with Bosch systems are very rare and while some experience some issues it’s one of the most reliable systems currently available. When our clients run into issues the most common problems are poor connections due to lack of cleaning. Using a good quality “safe for plastics” contact cleaner will ensure that the contacts on your bike remain clean and produce a good contact between components.

*NOTE: Never spray anything or touch anything on the battery connectors. Did I say NEVER do this? There is a lot of energy there and this is not something you want to touch at anytime unless you have been properly trained.

Some of the Intuvia control units (where the +, - and i buttons are located) did have an issue several years ago and were typically replaced or simply just required a software update to correct. Replacement was pretty rare though.

An issue we saw when we had other brands come into the show was because of the dealer assembly where some dealers simply overtightened the display unit mount (this just needs to be lightly tightened to 1 Nm). Some bikes also had an issue with the type of handlebars that were used as there was a curvature on the bar right where the display mounts to which caused the display the flex. This was not a Bosch issue but rather an issue with the type of components used not the bike. Live and learn thing.

I'm going to duke it out with my technically clueless dealer, an improper mounting of the display which your post suggests is really apparent on my Cube. Here's to zero intermittency. Will post

I asked that the mount be re-aligned on the bars and care be taken to not over-tighten it. Three days without a dropout. Thanks to Scootereti for the key to my issue. My bike is finally a NEW bike.

 

[AlanD]

If this helps anyone: My mate has a Bosch Intuvia Cx mtb and started an intermittent problem - display lost connection with main battery - no power to motor, no speed or battery capacity indicated on display etc. I could duplicate problem by bouncing bike vigorously so suspected poor connections, it got worse till never connected. Got him to clean rear connectors to display and see pins moved ok and then I took the bracket off the handlebars to shake & twist but no connection. We swapped batteries with my bike but no change. Battery could be charged via bike socket on bike ok.

I had noticed he'd got no grease on battery terminals as my bike had from manufacturer and had bought some dialectric grease in preparation for his as a preventative measure. Put some grease on his terminals and bingo seems to have fixed it and he's been for rides with no problems.

I'm think of the 5 pins on the battery connector some may be low voltage (3v?) going to the display and these must have got some dirt/corrosion but nothing obvious but with low voltage doesn't need much resistance to cause problems and just adding the grease was enough to remove whatever was the problem.

So if you've same problem try this simple solution - clean and grease the battery connections first and pop some grease (few £$ on ebay) as a maintenance preventative measure.

Anyone got Bosch wiring diagrams as could be useful in future?

Alan

 

[Andrew Edwards]

Hi.
I resently came in to possession of a BMW Pedelec, with Bosch Intuvia Drive System.
When I purchased it I knew that it had a intermittent Fault.
But felt that it was probably going to be a Bad Connection on a socket.
So the problem is.
First time I got on the bike, I started pedeling and then after a short tine the Power came on and Drive for about 1 minute befor cutting out and nothing I did could make it come back on.
So got it home and cleaned the contacts for the Head Unit and put the bike on charge.
The Battery takes a Charge and Holds a charge, although it only shows 4 lights on the Battery and this is confirmed on the Head Unit.
So i remove the battery and clean the contacts and put the Battery back on the bike.
I go to take the bike out for a test ride and power up the head Unit, but their is no Speed Infication on the screen, which leads me to think "No communication with Drive Unit".
But I take it out for a short ride, going down the road I power On the Head Unit and the display suddenly shows speed and I get drive power for about 1 minute, befor it dies again.
At this point I am thinking Connection sockets on Drive Motor, so I get it home and start to work out how to get the Covers off the Drive Motor.
Turns out some one in the Past has stripped the Threads in the Crank Arm, so I could not split the crank and I could not get my puller in, as the motor cover was in the way.
So I take it to my local Bosch Dealer and ask them to put it on their Diagnostic befor I try cutting the crank arm off.
BOSCH dealer Diagnostic comes back Faulty Head Unit, Faulty Battery, Faulty Drive Unit, "Scrap Bike".

Not realy being very happy with what the Bosch Dealer had said, I proceeded to carefully Cut off the Crank Arm, making shore that I did not Damage the Spline (fortunately I used to be a Mechanic).
On getting to the drive motor and sockets, I find that the sockets are all clean and as they should be, but clean them any way.
But still no communication between the Head Unit and Motor Unti, other than a short period whilst Riding the bike.

I am starting to think that it is a connection inside the Drive Unit, but when I come to split the crank the other side, I find the same problem (Striped Threads).
So befor I go any further, I was Hoping (Praying) that some one ether knows what is Wrong or has any good Advice on how to Fix the Problrm.

I am reluctant to give up on the bike, as a new one is going to probably cost me about £3,500.

Please, can any one help?

 

[webcurl]

BOSCH dealer Diagnostic comes back Faulty Head Unit, Faulty Battery, Faulty Drive Unit, "Scrap Bike".

I probably won't be able to help but any error codes from the diagnostics would be a good start, Bosch has many codes.
There's a CAN bus communication between the display unit, battery(s) & drive unit.

 

[Andrew Edwards]

I probably won't be able to help but any error codes from the diagnostics would be a good start, Bosch has many codes.
There's a CAN bus communication between the display unit, battery(s) & drive unit.

Unfortunately the shop did not give me the Codes, got the feeling that they did not want anything to do with the bike.

 

[Scooteretti]

I would be 100% sure that the speed magnet on the spoke or brake rotor is properly aligned with the sensor if the speedometer on the display appears intermittently. Visit the Bosch Ebike website and download the PDF of the manual to see an image how to align the magnet to the speed sensor as positioning this correctly is very important.

 

[Andrew Edwards]

I would be 100% sure that the speed magnet on the spoke or brake rotor is properly aligned with the sensor if the speedometer on the display appears intermittently. Visit the Bosch Ebike website and download the PDF of the manual to see an image how to align the magnet to the speed sensor as positioning this correctly is very important.

I would be 100% sure that the speed magnet on the spoke or brake rotor is properly aligned with the sensor if the speedometer on the display appears intermittently. Visit the Bosch Ebike website and download the PDF of the manual to see an image how to align the magnet to the speed sensor as positioning this correctly is very important.

Hi.
Thanks for the Reply.
Unfortunately, that was one of the first things I checked and the Manget is Alined with the line on the Sensor correctly.
Thanks for the suggestion.

 

[NoDTMF]

Hi,

I was having all sorts of weirdness and then finally total death. In my case it was the rechargable battery in the head unit that died. I ordered new one from EBay and had to solder it in. Taking the head unit apart was a pain as there is tough wax in the screw holes. I just kept at it with a pick . Actually had this happen on both my 2014 KTM active line bikes. There are some YouTube videos on this.

You may be able to manually charge it as well to get back working…it seems the in unit charger won’t charge if completely discharged.

 

[Andrew Edwards]

Hi,

I was having all sorts of weirdness and then finally total death. In my case it was the rechargable battery in the head unit that died. I ordered new one from EBay and had to solder it in. Taking the head unit apart was a pain as there is tough wax in the screw holes. I just kept at it with a pick . Actually had this happen on both my 2014 KTM active line bikes. There are some YouTube videos on this.

You may be able to manually charge it as well to get back working…it seems the in unit charger won’t charge if completely discharged.

Thanks.
I will give that a try.