Bike class restrictions

[Ken M]

I'll say it again:

Speed limit not Class limit!

Just as it is with any other vehicle that rides on tera firma.

You are 100% correct! The lawmakers do not have the cognitive ability to realize that nothing else is going to work long term. Sadly we have People for Bikes and and other bike advocacy groups thinking the EU-based Class 1-3 system is model legislation. It's not even consistent with the federal definition entirely which they imply it is.

I really get a laugh out of the fact that every state feels they need to prove something and create their own ebike regulations when they should entirely focus on usage of bikes and ebikes and let the federal law define what a CPSC regulated bike and ebike is.

I literally had a conversation with one of the 4 law makers that pushed the Class 1-3 regulations thru in 4 months in Colorado (mainly to get Haibike to move their US headquarters here - they want the same regulations in EU and US for economies of scale of coarse). I'm sorry to say I was not impressed with his knowledge of the technology or the US federal ebike definition.

Bottom line is we all should ride responsibly and let the regulations eventually work out. I just don't want the mamby-pambies winning and setting all ebike assist limits at 25kph or they need to be licensed and insured (obviously DMV and insurance companies will not agree because they want their pensions increased on the backs of ebike riders).

 

[Mr. Coffee]

...
Class-III segment is estimated to be the fastest growing segment during the forecast period

The class-III e-bike segment is estimated to be the fastest growing segment of the global e-bike market. Class-III e-bikes, which are also known as speed pedal-assisted electric bicycle, provide assistance only when the rider is pedaling and stop providing assistance when the bicycle reaches 28 mph.

These e-bikes are allowed on roads, adjacent bike lanes, or private property due to their higher speed than the other two classes, i.e. class-I and class-II. These e-bikes are expected to help replace cars in many cities. Hence, class-III e-bike segment is expected to be the fastest growing market during the forecast period.

Then again, there is this thread about Bosch and this very telling quote from that thread:

As it turns out, Europe has a baffling problem with eBike legislation. Here’s one example. In Germany and UK, what percentage of total Bosch eBikes use the 45kmph system? 30%? 40%? My educated guess, having worked for and in eBike shops would be about 20-30%. I was told by the UK Bosch sales manager it’s less than 1%. A Bosch eBike HQ employee told me the same thing about Germany. The problem is regulation. Getting a 45kmph bike means extra taxes, fees, registration, insurance, and mandated lights, and license plate. All of this costs about $1,000 on the outset, and about $400 a year after that. Bosch has been fighting hard to oppose restrictive legislation, like these and the “two meter rule”, which was totally foreign to me. The CEO was ardent in his opposition of this law, but I never did figure out what it was.

My own suspicion is that if Class III e-bikes are only 1 percent of sales they are exceedingly unlikely to be sustainable in the long term. Even if HS e-bikes are a bigger segment in the States we need to remember that the US market is probably a rounding error compared to the European market.

Also, given that the Class III segment is so small, it isn't surprising that it might register enormous growth. If you made the extreme assumptions that the rest of the e-bike market was essentially flat and the Class III segment was experiencing 100 percent growth, that would only result in Class III e-bikes having a 2% market share next year.

 

[MarkF]

I see a lot of people tuning there class1 ebikes so they can go a little faster than 15 or 20 mph. They talk like people are riding bikes at over class 3 speeds which isn't the case. I'm sure there are plenty of Juice type ebike people who can go faster than allowed but you don't see any articles of them getting into or causing any kind of trouble.
Where's all the doom and gloom articles citing a tuned bike caused an accident. I understand what there saying and can agree on some of it but I think it's more of a perceived notion in there heads and not any real data to back it up.
I have yet to read one post where a guy got refused warranty work because they used a speed dongle. I'm sure they exist though.
I think the US will catch up in enough ebike sales to warrant class 3 bikes as something here to stay.
I also agree with Ken and his fight to get faster ebikes available to us Americans.

 

[jcanavera]

I continued to be curious about the ban on e-bikes on Mackinac Island. I wrote a note to the Pedego store on the island about e-bike usage. Here was their response to me. Personally it makes little sense from a business standpoint from having a Pedego store on the island, unless they rent other non-electric bikes. For all intents you can't even demo a Pedego there. Or the police take a blind eye to Pedego's in deference to them owning a store there.

Thank you for your questions. Here is a copy of what we were given from the Mackinac Island Police Department regarding electric bikes,

"Electric bicycles are banned on Mackinac Island per City Ordinance and State Law. For persons with a "mobility disability," ebikes may be used on the Island per the Federal (ADA) Americans with Disabilities Act. Officers can ask if you have a "mobility disability," and can ask for "credible assurance" (proof) of that disability. Examples of credible assurance may be: a State issued parking placard, or a handicap card. In lieu of such items, an official will accept a verbal claim of the disability, so long as the officer does not see anything to contradict the claim. Ebikes must be operated in a safe manner. Careless/Reckless operation will be enforced as with any bicycle per City Ordinance. Those who violate the Ordinance may receive a citation, and possible confiscation of their ebike."

Let me know if you have any other questions and have a great day!

 

[Dewey]

A thread on the U.K. Pedelecs forum confirms EU Bosch ebikes that are sold as compliant with EN 15194 (roughly equivalent to US Class 1 but limited to 15mph) from July 2018 can track if a bike has had a speed dongle attached https://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/th...ikes-to-make-it-more-difficult-to-tune.32427/

Could put a dampener on used prices of bikes popular for modifying this way unless a future owner could access the motor log before buying. Probably not though as most will be long out of warranty. More likely have the opposite effect in the short term if the seller can prove they have a pre-2018 Bosch Bike that hadn’t had the firmware update.

 

[jcanavera]

ok so in summary:

Ebikes are assistive device for people with physical disability and require authorization to operate in public.

Yeah that's the boiled down version, but obviously the city fathers of Mackinac Island want to keep their no motorized vehicle rules on the island pristine. But notice the official will accept a verbal claim of a disability. Personally I would have loved to have had the access to a pedal assisted bike to navigate the higher elevations of the island. We skipped those roads on our ride due to the potential of causing irritation of my knee which has a partially torn meniscus.

I guess they sell the Pedego's on the faith that you will plunk down your money to the Mackinac Island dealership without doing a demo ride. At the price of what Pedego sells for, that's a long shot chance I wouldn't take. Still doesn't make any sense why they bought that franchise unless they think that the clientele who stay up there have enough means that a Pedego is pocket change for them.

 

[elliot friedman]

Personally I do have a class III bike. I bought it for its lightweight and the fact that it looks more like a bicycle than a motorcycle. So happens my comfortable cruising speed fluctuates just below or at 20 mph. There are human powered bikes whizzing bye me all the time. The only difference between my ride and theirs is the weight of the battery and motor which probably adds up to somewhere between 10 and 15 lbs. Rider's weight is a major variable. God forbid if a collision does occur, I don't think the 8 mph is going to make a great deal of difference. It's going to be nasty either way, whether is an ebike or a regular one. There are 700 lb motorcycles, 1.5 ton cars, 10 ton trucks able to cruise at horrific speeds yet they're riding on the same roads along side of each other. At times, they have even been seen stopping when pedestrians are crossing the street.
People just have to be responsible and limit their speed when the surrounding circumstances present themselves. Common sense safety has nothing to do with classifications.

 

[jcanavera]

The interesting aspect for me is when I was riding the Pedego's up in Petoskey Michigan. I was on the bike trail and 99% of the time I was being passed by non electric folks. Only time I passed any riders was when there were smaller kids riding with the parents and other family members. Usually I wanted to get by them since they rode in groups and the kids were riding all over the path from side to side.

 

[Ken M]

I continued to be curious about the ban on e-bikes on Mackinac Island. I wrote a note to the Pedego store on the island about e-bike usage. Here was their response to me. Personally it makes little sense from a business standpoint from having a Pedego store on the island, unless they rent other non-electric bikes. For all intents you can't even demo a Pedego there. Or the police take a blind eye to Pedego's in deference to them owning a store there.

Thank you for your questions. Here is a copy of what we were given from the Mackinac Island Police Department regarding electric bikes,

"Electric bicycles are banned on Mackinac Island per City Ordinance and State Law. For persons with a "mobility disability," ebikes may be used on the Island per the Federal (ADA) Americans with Disabilities Act. Officers can ask if you have a "mobility disability," and can ask for "credible assurance" (proof) of that disability. Examples of credible assurance may be: a State issued parking placard, or a handicap card. In lieu of such items, an official will accept a verbal claim of the disability, so long as the officer does not see anything to contradict the claim. Ebikes must be operated in a safe manner. Careless/Reckless operation will be enforced as with any bicycle per City Ordinance. Those who violate the Ordinance may receive a citation, and possible confiscation of their ebike."

Let me know if you have any other questions and have a great day!

I believe the federal law DEFINES a compliant ebike as the equivalent of a traditional bike (I advise you to read the ACTUAL federal ebike law (not the opinions you'll see all over EBR including mine). I don't believe the states can prevent a legal ebike's usage if they allow traditional bikes (the federal law actually stipulates this). Read it, send it to city officials, and tell them you expect a response or you assume they accept that the federal law over-rides their mamby pamby position.

 

[Ken M]

your quote says Bosch has been fighting to go against the legislation ?
Quite to contrary, seems like Bosch is in for legislation: https://www.bosch-ebike.com/ca/service/ebike-tuning/

Bosch representatives are always claiming they oppose the speed limiting regulations but anyone that follows the industry knows they are actually leading the charges as they know mid-drives main competitive advantage is lower speed performance vs DD and geared hub drives which really start to shine at 15mph and higher. In reality there efforts are borderline anti-trust violations because they are trying to gain competitive advantage via laws the harm competitive products.

Would be nice if an executive at Bosch, Brose, or Yamaha would care to actually comment on this and engage in a technical debate. I'd be happy to participate.

 

[ez3putt]

I have a Class III bike. The throttle will not propel the bike past twenty mph. I typically ride at 20-22 mph on public roads and bike lanes and 14-16 mph on uncrowded MUP's. The only times I have topped 30 mph was because of gravity and had nothing to do with PAS or throttle. I am also a strong proponent of speed limits on MUP's. I firmly believe most riders will adhere to a posted speed limit. What I don't get is the policy/law makers obsession with throttles. At 72, my sense of balance and fine motor skills simply are not what they were even twenty years ago. The throttle on my bike is a safety feature. Why do these idiots want to eliminate a safer bike?

 

[GregGritton]

sorry for my ignorance, but what's MUP?

Multi-use path.

 

[MarkF]

I think it stands for multi use path. Ah you beat me to the punch