Battery Cost: $1,299

[mjorg]

"a beautiful thing". Well I guess - If you like 'em obese @78lbs starting weight.
Then I'd have to replace or get over: cheesy B&W display, $15 thumb (wrecker, tendonitis causing) throttle; the front fork is so cheap they won't tell what it is, etc.
Even taking into account the battery could add $700, other cheapo parts - like the ring gear and bash plate, seat-post, saddle, pedals, those 'demi-ape-hangers' that look like they came off a 70's vintage Girls Stingray (I instantly wondered: "where's the Red plastic tassels?')
and I'm flummoxed wondering: Are they really single pot brakes?
Even the cheapest cassette. All a minus balance for me.
There are upscale features. The dropouts do look sturdy and it has a (sort of) torque arm (Big +++), but it's too short and attached too weakly to be of any real help. All these motors have out-of-spec cut shaft flats and every last source worth a dime says if you have any real power, a real torque arm is required - usually two if you are cranking.
That single TA is maybe 2", an M6 (maybe) steel bolt (electrolysis) through alloy (Hard meets soft, flex, flex, crunch, crunch) attaches and if the "cheap" theme is followed, unsuitable automotive type washers and lug nuts. Hey, it's 20 cents or $20?
The cassette side appears to use a subframe (hopefully steel) bolted to the frame. Outstanding !!! This is a real solution - alloy dropouts can get chewed up by a hardened motor shaft - if that frame is alloy, and the parts are insulated. They don't say.
However, the problem is that the shafts are deliberately ground with a ton of slop. M12 (12mm) threaded x 10mm flats is the rating and e-bike dropouts are cut for that. But the bicycle standard is 9mm and the big money is in 'universal conversion kits', so get it? Slop was built in.
To combat that problem requires the torque arms be preloaded in the direction of force. If one side is not, you have 1/2 the holding force keeping that axle in place.
As a 'slo-mo ride' for a larger person - considering Bafang rates that motor at 85nm Max - it really shouldn't need any hub spinning prevention measures beyond sturdy dropouts, the right hardware and proper welds. So a TA is not a very big selling point in this case.
For a lighter person, it's a friggin' tuna boat.

Fn'F

I thought the extra weight might be due to the larger battery. Those babies sure look good in EBR reviews.

 

[Fast n' Furious]

In my experience Chinese sellers are ordinary people trying to make an honest buck like anyone else. Also just like anywhere, there are a few smartasses who realize its mighty difficult to come after someone from across the globe.

I've gotten refunds before from Ali sellers. A shipment disappeared once. Seller sent the wrong voltage rated power supply once. I didn't need to fight the People's Liberation Army to get my money back. I mean... Judeo Christian inculcation? Dishonesty is not a sin in the Far East?

Lol.
-
Sure wish there were more posts on WW's products.
That's what I'm here for.

I'm going for a ride.

Cheers!!!

Fn'F

 

[Fast n' Furious]

I thought the extra weight might be due to the larger battery. Those babies sure look good in EBR reviews.

Not really. The battery only adds a couple pounds. Bike is 65lbs without battery, 78lbs with.
My Ride1Up Ltd came 58lbs w/ battery and now weighs about 62 - with the ABUS Lock aboard - 50lbs with battery removed and no lock.
Those wheelsets weight a ton. Unless you are riding on snow or sand, fat tires have a lot more drag and only provide a little bounce if they are inflated low - more drag. Also more area contact to get a flat. I'd stick with 3" Commuting tires and skip the gimmicks.
I have a set of those $50 SKS fenders and they fit perfectly, F & R. Took 'em off for Summer. Hate any extra weight.
Looks like they have 29er fenders mounted w/ different sized wheels. Look closely at the pics on their site. See the gap is all cockeyed? What's with that front 'nose up' stuff? Wrong size. Look at other sites, google images and you'll see.
R1U is $600 less, but sadly they cut the torque sensor - sigh. Come on Kevin. Raise the price a little bit, drill out that hole that keeps sheering the TS's wires and bring the it back. Please? I love mine.
If you don't care about the weight, it's all good, but for $550 more you could buy an Bafang Ultra powered, 160nm, 21A battery Frey Hunter that weighs less and has a lot more power - and resale value.
https://www.alibaba.com/product-det...offerlist.normal_offer.d_image.327c27f6jy67Ot

These Frey CC's (below) are $3,420.00, but I think there's 4 month delivery wait at present. They're a 75lb bike as well.

$2700.00 (for that RipCurrent S) is the wrong value range. $3 - $4.5K is where the real values are now.
Knowing someone with a Frey that loves it - and I must say it' is a fabulous, powerful machine - I'm still doubling down and going with WattWagon's Legacy Commuter Titanium frame. Steep price, but it's where I've arrived.

Just did a quick spin (9mi) on the Ride1Up Ltd. Padres game, so dodging cars, then letting the MXUS stretch it's legs and hit 31mph, with 28 - 29mph (Pedaling and throttle) all the way up a long (a mile?) hill. Bike cooks. No cut-out stuff since I (un-plugged and re-plugged in) checked all the plug connectors and verified TS is fine - without damaging it. (Thanks R1U for the complete instructions. You ROCK !!!)
TS is flawless now. $20.00 Twist throttle I installed is a breeze to coordinate with pedal power and TS.
Now that I have more experience, I can say 'this is really a +750watt machine'. It pulls 860watts. I'm sure w/ a 52V battery it would pull +1000watts, exceeding the rating of 100nm @ 1000watts, I conclude 860watts creates around 86nm.
When asked, R1U's owner, Kevin Duggar even produced documentation from MXUS that this motor is specially made, of higher wattage than the '12C' civilians can buy, just for that bike. I have not once regretted the purchase.
At $1900.00 you can't touch their Ltd. You do it right, buy another $700.00 in this and that and it's perfect. I spent a lot more just finding the right stuff, and also bought a few expensive 'legacy' parts, like my saddle w carbon rails and carbon KINEKT seat-post. I was already planning my next build you see.
After R1U's large color display, I couldn't live with that dinky B & W on the Rip's. Have to wear my reading glasses. lol
WW's is even so much larger. I can't wait.
An the bars, the bars, the bars.

Take care !!!

Fn'F

 

[Fast n' Furious]

Dude... you've lost it.

This from a chicken with a stove on his head (lol, lol, lol, lol).
Go ride your bike, boyo.

 

[Fast n' Furious]

Dude... you've lost it.

Dear Mr Chicken,
Whatever "it" is, I assure you I've never had "it".
I hope "it's" not contagious? Does "it" blank you education and turn you into a cocky know-nothing expert full of vapid one line retorts ?
You sound experienced. You have the best of me, Sir.
All these vaccination nowadays, but still no vax for inhibiting kids - or midlife crisis'ers pretending to be kids - addressed adults as "Dude"?
Should be mandatory. A dose every year. I don't care if it give 50% blood clots. Say the 'D' word, get the vaccination.
You just really love and respect the PRC, Communists agenda and morals ... or is it's 'just a job'?
https://gadgets.ndtv.com/apps/news/...ehind-hit-chinese-communist-party-app-1995393
Mao took over in 49'. So anyone under 63 was raised a Communist ... oh never mind. I know when I'm out half-witted.
Not a lot of time in my aged life for people with, no class, no future and no money, let alone nothing to teach.
If that's your "it" spot, I hope I "lost" all of "it". Spent my whole life tiring to ditch low comprehension 'millstones' while being a decent guy.
Lost my patience with arrogant lowbrows.
I respect that you have a cause tho. Hell, I got in several fights over slurs at my wife. An oldster that was in Korea went crazy at her, but I calmed the storm, no one was hurt and she understood his hate for her eyes, while she cried at the cruel things he said. He had a right.
She hated the PRC. So did her family that managed to flee.
-
You have any bike info to share?
If it's in Chinese, no worries. I have a translator program - comrade.
-
Yours,

Fn'F

 

[tomjasz]

PLONK

 

[m@Robertson]

What an idiot.

 

[Jenny Mao]

There is no directly replacement for Hyperscorpion as Juiced uses in-house designed wider battery case.
That is not to say one that you buy from Jenny (Reention 440mm casings) do not fit.
It may just look awkward because they might look a little tucked in, but I have no way to confirm that narrow battery will fit in wide frame of Juiced Bikes.

However, what I can confirm is that, Juiced's wide batteries will fit Reention Dorado powered ebikes with narrow frames.
I just don't know if it work the other way around. I'm pretty sure it will, but I am yet to see anyone trying it.

As far as I know, the shape of Juiced's mounting points are identical to Reention.
You would also want to make sure the connections (discharge port) are identical too.

Juiced used to sell bikes with Reention Dorado, such as OcreanCurrent, CrossCurrent Air, etc...
However when they designed their own wide-frame battery, I'm pretty sure existing Juiced owners are able to use wide-frame battery on their narrow frame (with Reention Dorado).
And I can confirm this for CrossCurrent and CrossCurrent Air, because I have personally seen them fit.

Hello @Timpo , thank you so much for keeping recommending our battery.

Agree with all your research about the Juiced wide frame "Dorado" and Reention narrow frame Dorado batteries.

In this video, Juiced wide frame battery is mounted in Reention mounting brackets, and the battery bulges over in left side. And it exactly proves that you mentioned " Juiced's wide batteries will fit Reention Dorado powered ebikes with narrow frames".

May I ask if you know what is exact width of the Juiced wide frame, Reention frame width 61.3mm.

Reention Dorado Mini/Pro/Plus are all about 65mm wide to perfectly fit into the narrow frame.
But Dorado Max 79mm wide and Dorado 21700 84mm wide both bulge over the narrow frame, so I think they might not be looked tucked in the Juiced wide frame.
The bulged part is lower than the frame part, so it will a bit sink in or a bit exceed the Juiced wide frame, how do you think?

It is a pity that even with the Reention Dorado 21700 440L case(52cells 21700), max get 52V 15AH by 14S3P Samsung 50E 21700 cells, far less than Juiced 52V 19.2AH battery.
But 52V 15AH shall be a good choice for those Juiced bikes coming with 52V 13Ah battery.
With Reention Dorado Max 440L case(60cells 18650), max get 52V 14AH (as you mentioned) by 14S4P Sasmung 35E 18650 cells.

None Juiced bikes owners would like to try it out as none of us could 100% confirm the Reention Dorado 21700 will fit.
I am pretty sure too that the Reention Dorado series will fit in Juiced wide frame.
Still hope some one who have both Juied wide frame battery and Reention Dorado battery can help confirm for us if the Dorado battery works on Juiced wide frame. Thanks!

 

[Explorer-1]

I know I'd love a 3rd Party battery for my Juiced RCS. It would need to be at least 20Ah though or it's not worth it. The Juiced wide battery at the Frame seems top be 74mm maybe 75mm (accounting for tolerances). The battery is 80mm at it widest point.

If you send me an empty 440L 21700 case I could see how it fits, but you would need to be able to make them at least 20Ah for people to want them I think. Maybe 15Ah would be interesting to some people if you could keep the price low enough, compared to Juiced.

If the case fit well enough and would accommodate my Battery pack I would even buy the case, but I think 440L is to short for my current pack. I need at least 310mm for the pack, and with the way the cases are angled at the ends that seems not possible with a Juiced case at least.

 

[Jenny Mao]

I know I'd love a 3rd Party battery for my Juiced RCS. It would need to be at least 20Ah though or it's not worth it. The Juiced wide battery at the Frame seems top be 74mm maybe 75mm (accounting for tolerances). The battery is 80mm at it widest point.

Thank you for confirming the Juiced wide frame and its battery width, so the Dorado 21700 440L is even wider than Juiced battery, and so it at least won't looks tucked in there.

If you send me an empty 440L 21700 case I could see how it fits, but you would need to be able to make them at least 20Ah for people to want them I think. Maybe 15Ah would be interesting to some people if you could keep the price low enough, compared to Juiced.

And thanks for your tips to try an empty Dorado 21700 440L case on Juiced frame. I think it is only solution to try it out.
The Reention Dorado 21700 440L is available for maximum 48V 20AH, but only 52V 15AH, all by Samsung 50E 21700 cells with 30A BMS for 1000W rated 1500W peak motor.

52V 15AH battery +shipping cost to US, price USD510
48V 20AH battery +shipping cost to US, price USD580
Do you think it is competitive compared with Juicked battery?
Samsung 50E 21700 cells are more endurable with more than 500time cycle lifetime at 80% DOD than most 18650 cells which have more than 500cycles at 60% DOD.

If the case fit well enough and would accommodate my Battery pack I would even buy the case, but I think 440L is to short for my current pack. I need at least 310mm for the pack, and with the way the cases are angled at the ends that seems not possible with a Juiced case at least.

I appreciate you would pay for the empty case, price USD60 and we would like to send it for free shipping cost.
Do you mean you want to put the Juiced PVC battery pack into Reention Dorado 21700 empty case to test?
The Dorado 21700 case inner dimension for battery is about 278*74*85mm, pls double check if it is avaiable for replacement.

Thank you.

 

[Explorer-1]

Do you mean you want to put the Juiced PVC battery pack into Reention Dorado 21700 empty case to test?

No, I have a replacement 16Ah 21700 pack made with high-discharge capable cells that I would like to put in a battery pack, but looks like to use it on Juiced I'll have to find my own way to mount it as it is too large for the cases as it has extra protection. Although if the case was wide I might cut open the pack and change the build to fit, hate to do it, but I might.

Let me check on your dimensions, I want to understand how the narrower part of the battery case fit in the frame, does in have to fit in or can even the narrow part of the case that lays against the frame sit to the outside. You know where the case starts to taper.

Thank you for confirming the Juiced wide frame and its battery width, so the Dorado 21700 440L is even wider than Juiced battery, and so it at least won't looks tucked in there.


And thanks for your tips to try an empty Dorado 21700 440L case on Juiced frame. I think it is only solution to try it out.
The Reention Dorado 21700 440L is available for maximum 48V 20AH, but only 52V 15AH, all by Samsung 50E 21700 cells with 30A BMS for 1000W rated 1500W peak motor.

52V 15AH battery +shipping cost to US, price USD510
48V 20AH battery +shipping cost to US, price USD580
Do you think it is competitive compared with Juicked battery?

I'm not sure how many Juiced customers buy the 48V batteries, I think most of those fit their earlier narrow frames.

In regards to the 52V 15Ah battery; Juiced normally charges $799 for 13Ah, which is a ripoff and people would probably buy your battery instead if it fit reasonably well. However; the 13Ah battery is currently on sale at Juiced (first time ever I believe) for $499 (+shipping), which is reasonable but not great, so I think people would go for that if it was at that price and in stock when they needed it.

I suspect Juiced is clearing them out, maybe just going to stick with just the 19.2Ah battery for 52V or replacing their 13Ah battery with a 15.6Ah battery to stay competitive with the current market.

So I think it is currently unclear if it makes sense to enter this market at this time.

 

[Jenny Mao]

Let me check on your dimensions, I want to understand how the narrower part of the battery case fit in the frame, does in have to fit in or can even the narrow part of the case that lays against the frame sit to the outside. You know where the case starts to taper.

The Juiced wide battery at the Frame seems top be 74mm maybe 75mm (accounting for tolerances). The battery is 80mm at it widest point.

Pls refer below comparison, sorry I stole your picture from your another post
If I undertand you correct, the Reention Dorado 21700 case narrower part fit in frame is 80mm, and case body widest part is 84mm.
So the Dorado 21700 shall bulge over the Juiced wide frame about 5mm.
The bottom structure lines look similar between the Juiced wide frame case and Dorado 21700 case, but the Juiced battery looks more flat at the bottom right part.

Agree with @Explorer-1 @Timpo you two analysis of the price and market.
I believe some owers with the old version Juiced ebike powered by Reention Dorado 48V battery would rather to buy a new bike.
The 52V 15AH is not so attractive for those who had used the 52V 19.2AH which Juiced bike is exclusively competitve on market.

But I still believe that there's a HUGE market needs for aftermarket batteries.
Particularly from customers with relatively large ebike companies with proprietary batteries, such as Juiced, Rad Power and even Stromer.

I know RadRover 6 owners (or any Rad Power owners for that matter) would LOVE to upgrade their batteries to 52V, with higher capacity.
If you look at RadRover 6 (both Step Thru and Step Over version), there's quite a bit of space to increase the capacity.
Is it possible to design an aftermarket custom battery cases for those bikes?

It is hard and cost a lot to imiate and develop a new case to replace those proprietary batteries. For now we can only use those developed case from Reention/Shanshan/SYR...
At least for Juiced bike, the Reention Dorado 21700 shall be an available replacement option.

 

[tomjasz]

48V battery when it comes with 52V stock. That would be a downgrade.

I find that kinda silly. Not you, the market IMO. The difference in performance is low. its more fluff than value for many. But the market here is forever trying to get more speed. My 52V 20Ah triangle pack pushed a BBSHD merely a mile or two an hour faster than my 48V. BOTH propelled the eBike at what I consider unsafe speeds. But as soon as the 52V reached 54.6V, well, meh! My 17Ah 36V can run near Class 3 limits. Yeah, I know, full dork. But many old fellas and gals prolly ought not be riding like a Luna(tic).

 

[m@Robertson]

Totally agree 52v for speed is silly.

Myself personally, 52v is all about more usable volts in a 48v system (I already stay away from heavy depth of discharge to conserve battery life).

54.6v is a 100% charge on a 48v system. 55.4v on a 52v system is an 80% charge. So I can charge to a higher voltage, get a hair more usable range and conserve battery life. And if I have extra errands like I do today I have the option to go 58.8v / 100%.

 

[Fast n' Furious]

No, I have a replacement 16Ah 21700 pack made with high-discharge capable cells that I would like to put in a battery pack, but looks like to use it on Juiced I'll have to find my own way to mount it as it is too large for the cases as it has extra protection. Although if the case was wide I might cut open the pack and change the build to fit, hate to do it, but I might.

Let me check on your dimensions, I want to understand how the narrower part of the battery case fit in the frame, does in have to fit in or can even the narrow part of the case that lays against the frame sit to the outside. You know where the case starts to taper.


I'm not sure how many Juiced customers buy the 48V batteries, I think most of those fit their earlier narrow frames.

In regards to the 52V 15Ah battery; Juiced normally charges $799 for 13Ah, which is a ripoff and people would probably buy your battery instead if it fit reasonably well. However; the 13Ah battery is currently on sale at Juiced (first time ever I believe) for $499 (+shipping), which is reasonable but not great, so I think people would go for that if it was at that price and in stock when they needed it.

I suspect Juiced is clearing them out, maybe just going to stick with just the 19.2Ah battery for 52V or replacing their 13Ah battery with a 15.6Ah battery to stay competitive with the current market.

So I think it is currently unclear if it makes sense to enter this market at this time.

A lot of dumping going on - what with 26650's the current big dog - for a while now ... like 2018?
Not sure I'd put faith in 'discharge curves', unless it's verified by a third party. Endless-sphere has the REAL experts. https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=107014 is a start, with links on the subject.
Naturally, everyone will feel a real boost with the sustained power from higher w/a batteries, so certainly bigger holding capacity seems a lot stronger and the curve should be waaaaaay past when 18650's are done.
I enter the market when I locate 'what I want' (the plan). First, I have to know that.
If you reach out to custom builders on eBay, you will find your solution at a great cost - for USA made.
Otherwise, you must provide your cad-cam, your specs to a manufacturer and order whatever minimum they allow as "samples".
$400 for a draftsman to cad-cam a framework/ battery holder for any size cells, within ANY set size parameters - read: for whatever outer case.
You can also use a 3D printer, but if you don't want to build it? Send messages to Li pack creators on eBay and pay them a 30 - 40% fair wage for their knowledge investment and integrity.

Fn'F