Is it better to fully charge and almost fully discharge a battery and MAYBE? preserve charging cycles and your time, OR better to only charge to the frequently recommended 80% and discharge to 20%? Using the 80% to 20% would mean many more charging cycles and more frequency, time and effort to charge the battery. Would the number of charging cycles seemingly be reduced by fully charging and almost fully discharging battery? Does one method of charging outweigh the other? Or just don't worry about it and ride!
Batteries: Less charging cycles or using less battery capacity?
- Thread starter gregorb
- Start date
There are many charts that show battery life based on charge discharge cycles. If you can live with the battery cycle between 20-80%, you will supposedly get thousands of cycles. The Chevy volt uses s similar charge program.
Imo I’d rather get maximum range and enjoyment, since batteries aren’t that expensive. I charge to 100% and discharge to 20%. And get 3 years of useful battery life around 5000 miles.
If you charge only to 95% it supposedly increase cycle life significantly.
Imo I’d rather get maximum range and enjoyment, since batteries aren’t that expensive. I charge to 100% and discharge to 20%. And get 3 years of useful battery life around 5000 miles.
If you charge only to 95% it supposedly increase cycle life significantly.
JoePah,
Wow. Was expecting more than 5,000 miles. 500 already. Maybe that 95% charge is the best option for me. Getting 3 rides per charge now to about 10% discharge and can adjust 5% on street if necessary. Don't want to be charging all the time. Also getting good at guessing charge times, so I can just back it off by 15- 20 minutes or so. Thanks.
Wow. Was expecting more than 5,000 miles. 500 already. Maybe that 95% charge is the best option for me. Getting 3 rides per charge now to about 10% discharge and can adjust 5% on street if necessary. Don't want to be charging all the time. Also getting good at guessing charge times, so I can just back it off by 15- 20 minutes or so. Thanks.
Q 1: Better for cycle life. OTH, some people do need all the capacity, just remember that it's going to cost you.
"Maybe preserve charging cycles" - nope, you won't preserve anything when running almost full cycle. You will get less cycle life. Cycle Life in specs means the number of FULL cycles. 10 cycles, each one 20-80, equals to 6 full cycles. 10 cycles, each 100%, equals to 10 full cycles.
Total number of FULL cycles, i.e. total mileage - will be HIGHER if you run 20-80, because battery heats less and God knows for what other reasons. Nobody understands this chemistry completely.
"Time to charge" is hardly an issue with 20-80, as this takes less time than charging 5%-100%. "Effort" I don't understand. Every evening or after every trip plug it in and put it on timer. If you are riding so much that battery is empty before you get home - then you need a bigger battery or a gas scooter.
Q 2: Yes, and not "seemingly". Adverse effects of full charging have been proven, as well as discharging below 20%. Especially if it's sitting full charged for weeks.
Q 3: Hard to tell what's better for you. Don't worry if you don't feel like, treat it as disposable. Statistically, running 5%-100% will shorten its life, so you will buy a new battery sooner. Though they die sometimes for no reason, with all the precautions taken.
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Thanks for the reply and informative explanation. Especially on full cycles. It is wierd science. To clarify, by effort I meant OFF-BIKE charging in my case and charging every 2 rides instead of 3. Time TO charge not an issue. Guess it's best to not over think it, but be aware of the pluses and minuses and try to effect more pluses.
Don't worry about math. It's like with a car tank - distance from A to B is sometimes measured in number of full tanks. Similarly, manufacturers specify battery life in "full cycles", - say, 1000 full cycles. This is merely a convention. People want some warranties, so they warranty 1000 full cycles. At the same time they put BMS that will cut off at low voltage, to avoid discharging to zero - or even put it in a fine print warning you not to do this.
Ebike battery lasts LONGER - more miles per life of a battery - when you fill the "tank" to only 80% and refill again at 20%. They are like puppies - don't feed it too much, don't leave it hungry, keep it away from heat.
Ebike battery lasts LONGER - more miles per life of a battery - when you fill the "tank" to only 80% and refill again at 20%. They are like puppies - don't feed it too much, don't leave it hungry, keep it away from heat.
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Brooklyn Tony
Member
Estimate your typical maximum daily mileage. Figure out how many WH you will need. Buy something that has double that. Also LiFePo4 batteries have a 2000 cycle expectancy as opposed to regular Lithium Ions' 500 cycles. BUT they are less energy dense so you are carrying 20-30% more weight for the same WH. But they've reported lasted nearly 10 years* for some DIY guys and are still running. *there were some dead individual cells along the way that had to be replaced.
mrgold35
Well-Known Member
I have two 2016 radrovers with +4500 miles between them I use for mostly work commuting and fun rides year round. I trade off ebikes every few weeks to keep the wear/tear/mileage the same. I also have a 3rd battery I rotate in/out to try and keep the battery cycles around the same.
I charge 100% each day at work when I work commute my 13 mile PAS 3 round trip (battery is usually 40-60% range depending on headwind). I usually just do the straight 6.5 miles to work because I can't shower at work and don't want to break a sweat. I top off the battery at work because it is usually +95 degrees in the summer, headwinds 10-15 mph, +500 feet incline, and a lot of traffic (waiting at lights). If I'm up for it, I also take detours of additional 5-25 miles before heading home if it is nice day. I do have additional charge cycles when both bikes are used for family outings.
I haven't noticed any decrease in range or power with my current set-up. I figured if one 48v/11.6ah is rated for around 600 charge cycles on average; then, I should get around +10 years of battery life with 3 in the rotation.
4500 miles / 20 miles per charge cycle = 225 cycles so far
225 cycles / 20 months of ownership = 11 cycles per month
600 charge cycles / (11 cycles X 12 Months) = 4.5 years of battery life for each
4.5 years each X 3 batteries = +13 years.
Not expecting the rover or ebike components to come close to lasting this long. I'm not 100% clear; but, assuming a charge cycle is everytime the total power input is +90%. For example; recharging from 80%-100% X 5 times during the week counts as 1 cycle NOT 5 cycles.
I charge 100% each day at work when I work commute my 13 mile PAS 3 round trip (battery is usually 40-60% range depending on headwind). I usually just do the straight 6.5 miles to work because I can't shower at work and don't want to break a sweat. I top off the battery at work because it is usually +95 degrees in the summer, headwinds 10-15 mph, +500 feet incline, and a lot of traffic (waiting at lights). If I'm up for it, I also take detours of additional 5-25 miles before heading home if it is nice day. I do have additional charge cycles when both bikes are used for family outings.
I haven't noticed any decrease in range or power with my current set-up. I figured if one 48v/11.6ah is rated for around 600 charge cycles on average; then, I should get around +10 years of battery life with 3 in the rotation.
4500 miles / 20 miles per charge cycle = 225 cycles so far
225 cycles / 20 months of ownership = 11 cycles per month
600 charge cycles / (11 cycles X 12 Months) = 4.5 years of battery life for each
4.5 years each X 3 batteries = +13 years.
Not expecting the rover or ebike components to come close to lasting this long. I'm not 100% clear; but, assuming a charge cycle is everytime the total power input is +90%. For example; recharging from 80%-100% X 5 times during the week counts as 1 cycle NOT 5 cycles.
PowerMe
Well-Known Member
Maybe I'm doing it wrong, but when I recharge my battery, which I do after a ride, regardless of how much battery or how little battery I use on that ride, I charge it till the green light comes on in the charger, which is 100% charged. Generally-speaking I tend to have approximately 25% left on the battery at the end of a 20mi ride.
Investor9872
New Member
You're not doing anything wrong. There's no way to precisely charge your battery to 95%, so that at the end of the day you'll have 20% left. You can use a timer/alarm to set a charge time and play around with it a bit until you get it just right for you. Personally, I'm fine with charging my two batteries when they register 1 bar left.
Investor9872
New Member
What is your charge time from 10% to 95%? My wife and I have 40 miles now on our first charge. She still has 4 bars left, and my bike just fell to 3 bars. She only uses PAS 1, citing that her Step-Thru is just too powerful and fast. I'm typically in PAS 1 & 2. Our path is pretty much flat, so even if I get 40 miles per cycle X 800 cycle rating on the 2018 battery, that's 32,000 miles. You bike would be completely deteriorated at half that amount of milage.
jazz
Well-Known Member
If you are going to use it right away or within a day or two, I have no problem charging to 100% and using it. I just store it around 50-60% over the winter. I generally get several years out of my batteries. Just rebuilt one from 2013 which I always charged to 100%. Basically, not a huge deal to worry about or overthink. In 3 years, batteries will probably be better and cheaper than they are now anyway
AHicks
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.
Been messing with this and similar battery technology for quite a while in Radio Control. What I have observed is that there's a lot of "best guesses" out there regarding how to treat them. Listen if you like, but the bottom line is, if you don't abuse the battery with over charging, trying to run every last mile available out of it, or placing huge demands on it that it was not designed for, the battery will have a long healthy life.
ebikenewbie
New Member
So why cant they make the BMS so it tells the charger to shut down at 80 90 or even 95 percent, similar to when it gets too low, and it shuts down power to the motor?
tomjasz
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Minnesnowta
“They” can, and do. You get what you pay for. Don’t overthink. It’s easy to charge to any level with a timer and multimeter. Or forget it and use the advise from Jazz. Heat, storing at full charge, and an undersized battery that heats up Arne our biggest enemies. I have a brutalised battery in year 5, it’s fine. Not for extended 30mph runs, but pleasure riding, checking the herb garden, and shopping trips I
Sorry to tired for grammar and spelling...
Like your "don't overthink" mindset on this. Just keep mine out of Las Vegas summer heat and never completely drain the charge. Battery tech is advancing leaps and bounds. Think it will always be worth it to have the better, more efficient battery that's available. Hopefully a little cheaper in the future.
PaD
Well-Known Member
For my bike, a Specialized Vado, the only replacement battery I find is the 604Wh.
$900. Not cheap.
But as my battery is new I shouldn’t really need one for 2 or 3 years so who knows, maybe prices are down by then.
I wanted to upgrade from 504Wh to 604Wh when I bought the bike but was told it was not possible.
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