Bafang Ultra Recommended Chain

Are you running a 1000w geared hub? Taking those gears out on any kind of regular basis (or any geared hub gears) would be pretty unusual. And then, they're often taken out due to excessive heat more frequently than high mileage. I don't know the price of 1000w gears, but the more common 500w are priced pretty reasonable. Point being I wouldn't be real concerned about them. Then again, I don't know of anyone taking out chains like you describe....
 
Are you running a 1000w geared hub? Taking those gears out on any kind of regular basis (or any geared hub gears) would be pretty unusual. And then, they're often taken out due to excessive heat more frequently than high mileage. I don't know the price of 1000w gears, but the more common 500w are priced pretty reasonable. Point being I wouldn't be real concerned about them. Then again, I don't know of anyone taking out chains like you describe....
No. I'm running mid drive Bafang Ultra with 3000W 240Nm controller (the motor) paired with Kindernay VII gear hub (the gearing system). Bafang Ultra (the motor) connected with the gear hub (gearing system) with the chain. And all that 3000W power with 240Nm torque plus my legs push force go thru the chain. So I am looking for a chain can withstand such level of power without squishing the chain rollers.

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If I will not find the chain can withstand such power I will probably install 16T cog instead of 14T cog and maybe it will increase the chain lifespan reasonably. But that means Kindernay gear hub will be under higher abuse. Kindernay claims they warranty their gear hub if the motor torque is less than 160 Nm and the chainring to cog ratio is more than 1.6. Technically that means the biggest cog I can use with 44T chainring with 240 Nm motor is 18T cog ( (44/1.6)/(240/160) ). But I would like to keep that ratio between the chainring and the cog as big as possible (use the smallest possible cog) to reduse the stress on Kindernay because of Kindernay is quite expensive gearing system and it is not repairable once it is damaged internally.

There is another gearing system (Revolute Hub1) can wistand more than 250Nm mid drive motor torque, but only if the ratio between the chainring and the cog is more than 44:15. If I would use that system I would be limited to 15T cog which is not too far from 14T cog I currently use.

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That explanation makes your issue much easier to understand. As an Ultra owner myself, I now see where you are coming from....a pretty extreme application. Best of luck!

Second thought, out of pure curiosity, wondering how often you use all of your available power? If not too often, wondering if you could live with the motor if it were dialed back a bit - with reduced max amperage for instance? -Al
 
I need all that power maybe 5-10% of my commute time to be able to keep up with 35 mph traffic. And maybe 70% of that power to keep up with 25 mph traffic about 15-20% of my commute time.

I commute on my bicycle almost daily.
 
Just to expand with details on my previous post:

1 From this post:


2. From this 2019 Dec Chain Wear Test:
For 11-speed chains:


For 12-speed chains:



Interestingly, they also tested 8, 9, and 10 speed chains and found that the 11 and 12 speed chains were MORE durable!


So it would seem the conventional wisdom that the wider the chain the stronger it is. This testing indicates that newer chain materials/designs win out over raw width (which in actuality only makes the rollers longer, not the walls thicker).
That's an old test - so old the link's a 404 page.
 
Since this thread has come back from the dead, I thought I would update my wear/tear comments originally made in 2021.

Still no broken chains. I have found the Microshift Advent 9s cassettes - the all-steel model - are an excellent option, being steel cogs and pinned together to distribute their torque across a cassette body. I use the 9s on a cargo midtail and an emtb.

What I have really put the miles onto though in the last several months is a Microshift Advent X drivetrain. 10-speed. 11-46(?)T steel cassette option. I took a tip from a youtuber and put an 11s chain on it (same inner width, thinner sideplates) and this was a magical transformation. The added space made the drive so silent its like running a belt. I am using a Connex 11s ebike chain. JensonUSA had them on sale for $25 instead of $100 so I bought 5 of them. After 1100 miles on that chain it shows no wear, and this bike sees very steep hills and 100 lb loads plus the rider. Total system weight is often in excess of 450 lbs. Front cog is 42T. I never use the smallest or largest cogs due to chain alignment, but the next big cog down is plenty for steep hills. The front ring is a Luna Eclipse and that is noteworthy as I found the tooth profile of the Luna rings is so aggressive it makes for much better chain retention when under extreme load. My Lekkie Pro 40T skipped on occasion on the steepest hills with full loads, and it has smaller 10-12s-compatible teeth. On this bike I spend most of my time in the bigger rear cogs under high power, running up hills at slow speeds compared to a flatland commute. 52v/30a BBSHD.

Since I posted in 2021 and I mentioned the SRAM EX1 chains seemed good, I have used them quite a lot since as they are compatible with 8s, 9s and 10s drivetrains, and cost only about $25. No issues with durability or wear.
 
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I pushed my bbshd pretty hard indeed, constantly in a super low gear climbing to failure.
The chain never failed me, it was the rear cog, one snapped, two broke the freewheel.
 
I pushed my bbshd pretty hard indeed, constantly in a super low gear climbing to failure.
The chain never failed me, it was the rear cog, one snapped, two broke the freewheel.
@M@robetson likes robust builds. That is why he goes for the big HD and down tunes them so they hold up and do not overstress the rest of the drive components. He also upgrades everything up front. Instead of after something fails.
 
That's an old test - so old the link's a 404 page.
It's not yet 4 years old. The website/company got bought and the new company didn't migrate all the content over.
Here's a summary article that's still live:

Here's another more recent article:
 
I pushed my bbshd pretty hard indeed, constantly in a super low gear climbing to failure.
The chain never failed me, it was the rear cog, one snapped, two broke the freewheel.
For sure this is why I use the steel pinned-together cassettes. The Microshift 9s and 10s units are about US$40 or so. If you have 9s and don't need a pie plate-sized big cog, the Shimano HG-400 is also steel, pinned-together, and dirt cheap. I have one that is 12-32T. The HG-200 is cheaper still and I believe only lacks the HG-400's nickel or weatherproof coating on the cogs. For 11-speed the two Sunrace CSMS7 units I referenced in 2021 are still on the same bikes they were in 2021. The one on my first Bullitt now has about 3600 miles on it - and the chain is still original. A KMC e11. But those suckers are $55 or so. Thats why I bought five of the on-sale Connex chains. I have 3 bikes that can use them.

The one and only cog I have ever cracked was the 11T cog on a bike using an HG-400. The 11t small cogs are alloy. But they also only cost $7. Because that bike is 2wd, I left it in that gear and did not downshift at stop lights. It lasted 1100 miles instead of the expected 50 I'd have gotten if I wasn't using the front motor to take the shock off the drivetrain from a standing start.
 
It's not yet 4 years old. The website/company got bought and the new company didn't migrate all the content over.
Here's a summary article that's still live:

Here's another more recent article:
Thanks for the links.

My Frey Beast runs a SRAM GX 12X drivetrain, so I might update to the X01 or XX1 chain next time. I’m just worried the hollow pins in these chains might not cope with the torque compared to the solid pin GX chain?
 
Found this article on SRAM's GX vs X01 chains:

With the GX chain, you get good shifting performance but no special coating on the inner link to help with extended life. XO1 chains’ inner links are chrome plated to reduce chain wear, or stretch, over time.
...
Whenever we are running a SRAM Eagle drivetrain and need to replace the chain we will go for the XO1 chain because it really does last longer. One of our wrecking crew members tested this and found he would go through two GX chains in the time it would take one XO1 to wear out. The XO1 chain also features hollow pins, which make it lighter, too. The $30 difference, in this case, is worth it in our opinion.
 
The Shimano 11 x 40 on my machine is all steel gears except the 40T (low gear) which is alloy.

Unbeknownst, I had a broken slide and the battery didn't fully lock.
It felt locked. Key fully turned, but a bump and it came off, smashed into and bent my ring gear which snapped my chain that immediately locked up.
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Stopping, I did the coolest headstand you'll ever see - damn near total vertical - the bike spun around 45 degrees on the front wheel, rear came down, bounced, the entire bike jumped sideways like an angry tiger, stopped dead and fell over in a semi-controlled heap. Two minor bruises - though I nearly laughed to death.
I was like: Damn I'm good !!! (but I'm not). I've lifted the tail stopping a few times, but this was Circus stuff.
When I turned 70 I resolved to stop daredeviling. I have horrible priors. So, I tell myself it was an accident. Well damn, it was, but to be honest it was a lot of fun and it's why I ride.
Lucky for me this machine has such robust handling. I've been clipped by a lane changing happy-hour driver and bounced a couple feet sideways without losing control or suffering damage.
-
I'd mentioned the battery coming loose here on EBR and was tard-flacked for being an evil loser, having not locked the battery. LOL. Oh the personal, emotional distress that I was such and idiot. Anxiety attacks. EBR PTSD.
Now, if someone told me that happened to them, I'd stress they must closely check the tabs on the slide - not they were an idiot for leaving the battery unlocked. But then I'm crash dummy graduate, experienced in the matter - not a biddy hen in a pecking order.

Riders having never felt an X1 controlled M620 have no idea of the power.
I recently tried my builder friends M620 Frey (it 's for sale). Seriously?
The highest setting felt like my L1 Economy Mode.
He's mad because I wouldn't let him spin Gumbo. Nobody rides my girl but me.
I'm like yeah we're both V8's, but that's a 160hp Chevy 350 and this is a 650hp 785ftlbs torque 427 FI Cobra.
I just know he'd go around the block and flip her into sports modes. That's the 'it's not nice to mess with mother nature' place.
And BTW: You guy's running 3000watt X1's blow my mind. That's the Vanguard to Valhalla.

That article on how to use a mid-drive stuff is largely for 2019, off-road geared bikes.
Correct shifting technique is a given. He's 100% backwards. Most cassettes are steel, but for the largest cogs.
It's a joke, right? Right? He can't be serious. Well maybe for 6 speeds. I'm too inexperienced with archaic tech to know.

The Archer D1x make shifting easy. Once adjusted correctly, I can even pull off double shifts perfectly, but their vids are information-less. Vapid. Tell me how cool I can be, but not how to get there.
You must calculate and import the % difference between each gear ratio into the 50 point settings. 'Duh', huh?
Hint: Most are 1.1 - 1.18% change; the % change difference rounded translates to how far the Archer yanks the derailleur in or out.
Trusting my own math, I didn't bother to search for a table, or ask around. Someone (who's never owned one) would insist I need to pray and douse it with chicken blood; maybe change my chain - to a type inconsistent with my Shimano 11sp drivetrain. Go Mix n' Match, Crunchie-Junkie, Hybrid hot-dog - 'cuz nobody told them Shimano deliberately sabotages mixing parts.
So I dumped all my 'this feels right' settings, imported the %'s into the gear spacing program and it's so damn good, to be honest I'm flabbergasted.
I've been using the D1x a year and it was pretty nice. This is a night and day difference.
Oddly, it felt about 'okay' on the stand, shifting not in the least impressive. I was disappointed and 'resetting to what I know worked' before testing the new parts crossed my mind.
Oh ye of little faith !!!
It's sheer perfection on the road. I'm breaking the parts in, so only Eco 1, 2 right now, but it's flawless.
Hopefully, I can break more stuff and share the experience to enough folks so they don't, thus always giving back more than I take and feel all warm and fuzzy inside.
On disassembly I found the Shimano cassette's alloy (40T) gear is worn. The rest, all steel gears are hardly scratched.
The alloy ring shows major wear on the inside. None on the outside. The chain is still hardly stretched.
I also took this opportunity to perfectly size a new Shimano chain and replaced the Wolf Tooth 50T with a WT 52T.
For This Bike a 52T requires 138 Links. My measurement method is the angle of the derailleur at 11 and 40 cogs. Too tight and too loose are apparent. I used pieces of old chain and connectors to sample 136 and 140 as well.
The Bafang Fat spider appears to be one gear off, w/ chain-line a tad inboard, favoring 5th gear.
6th (center cog), 7th, 8th and 9th are within the (recommended) '3 degrees limit'. 10th is right on the line and 11th gear is +4 degrees off centerline.
Yup. Just like members here have said:'10 and 11 are getting beat to death' - well along those lines and it'show I see it too. Even the ring gear's wear is focused on the inside.
A 3mm offset shim and 8.5mm bolts would favor gears 8, 9 and 10, with far less stress on 11.
Since I don't crawl around in the dirt (lol), riding at 15 - 20mph the 1st gear is not a concern. The Archer will let me set the spacing to accommodate the excess chain offset, but the chain-line will be rough on low gears.
I'm 197, but have reason to suspect the Bafang Mountain Bike spider is also short.
I've some ideas, wonder how other owners have worked it and any long term results.
If you have a throttle and it's limited to 'low wattage/ 20mph max/ no torque sensor when engaged' (class II specs) it will save a lot of wear taking off from a stop. If you disagree, it's because you have never relied on one for that purpose. I'm amazed wizened riders think a 65lb e-bike is the same as a 28lb bicycle.
Replaced the slide and damaged battery case, ring-gear w/ ti bolts and identical Shimano Xt/Ultegra Cn-Hg701 chain.
Spacer is next.
Pip pip and tally ho !!!

Fn'F
 
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