Bafang Ultra (and BBSxx) Tuning

[Gionnirocket]

To the best of my understanding, there's square wave, and there's sine wave. Every square wave I've run runs with a ringing sound, and, there's a noticeable buzz as you accelerate from a stop. My understanding is the sine wave provides a much "softer" power pulse to the motor. They're much quieter in operation, and they provide smoother acceleration from a stop. So, that in mind, I'm wondering if the stock Bafang Ultra and BBSxx controllers aren't sine wave as well?

My understanding of these high end/aftermarket controllers was that they are the product of software written to a MUCH higher (not to mention newer) standard. Keeping in mind Bafang hasn't changed their software for several years now, it's not hard to consider that a company not resting on their butt has had plenty of time to improve on what Bafang started with. I can understand these aftermarket companies wanting to capitalize on their development work, but at the same time find it unfortunate their work isn't open source like Bafang's.

We KNOW Stefan Penov was able to improve on the older BBSxx configuration software with a total rewrite there. Hopefully us poor folk will soon be able to capitalize on newly written Ultra software written with some of the newer tech. used in the aftermarket controllers, and shared as freeware. Yes, wishful thinking for sure! -Al

It's possible, but I doubt it. If so the software is criminally negligent
And since actual hardware details from Bafang are nonexistent. I'm not sure where we could find the answer other than those doing these aftermarket upgrades.

 

[AHicks]

Have you ever ridden a stock Ultra from Biktrix ? Of course you haven't . I think if you did, you would wonder why you would want to change anything. And as far as throttle go, I have no use for them. It's a pet peeve of mine to see a rider running strictly on throttle on a shared path. Don't turn a bicycle into an electric scooter.

You told us earlier your throttle operated with a jerky output, so you removed it. I'm fine with that, but I can share that's one of the more popular comments/complaints I've seen made by riders of the STOCK Bafang programming, especially on the Ultra with it's higher output. If your programming was modified at some point, it would seem to me they messed up on your throttle. It really is pretty easy to civilize it.

The throttle vs. no throttle topic has been beaten to death several times elsewhere, leaving little reason/benefit to start/resume that discussion here. Lets try to stay on topic, please? -Al

 

[AHicks]

It's possible, but I doubt it. If so the software is criminally negligent
And since actual hardware details from Bafang are nonexistent. I'm not sure where we could find the answer other than those doing these aftermarket upgrades.

RE: criminally negligent, how long did it take the computer world to go from the early XT based PC computers to the 486/586 platform? The first version of dos, or Windows for that matter, to what we were using just a few years later? Point being, I know for a fact that stuff can move REALLY fast.....

Re: hardware details, I'm thinking if you want to sign up for several thousand Ultra motors, Bafang may be pretty receptive regarding ANY request you made? Point being, I beleive that knowledge is out there. It's just going to be a question of time before we see more development. My thought anyway. -Al

 

[TForan]

The throttle vs. no throttle topic has been beaten to death several times elsewhere, leaving little reason/benefit to start/resume that discussion here. Lets try to stay on topic, please? -Al

So, you bring it up again ? Ha! I took it off because throttles have no place on a bike, IMO.

 

[TForan]

I beg to disagree
The entire reason I got the archon controller was to have super smooth pas in low levels
I did not have my power turned up, just wanted the best controller for smoothness in 1,2,


And I have ridden Roshan programming on the ultra and it does not compare To the archon smoothness

The fact tforan rides in level 5 all the time perfectly proves ahicks point we all want different things from our bikes

Mine has never been in level 5

Are you afraid of the power ? You only swapped out the controller for smoothness ? Why have an Ultra, if you aren't going to use the power? Seems like a Bosch, Brose or Yamaha might be a better choice.

 

[Gionnirocket]

RE: criminally negligent, how long did it take the computer world to go from the early XT based PC computers to the 486/586 platform? The first version of dos, or Windows for that matter, to what we were using just a few years later? Point being, I know for a fact that stuff can move REALLY fast.....

Re: hardware details, I'm thinking if you want to sign up for several thousand Ultra motors, Bafang may be pretty receptive regarding ANY request you made? Point being, I beleive that knowledge is out there. It's just going to be a question of time before we see more development. My thought anyway. -Al

I think that you may have taken my statement too seriously... In my opinion the Chinese can make a decent product but they fall behind is in the details. This isn't cutting edge or new tech and has been around for a while now. The stock Bafang settings are ridiculous and just about every one who is capable of changing them does.

And as for the hardware there should be no need to purchase thousands of units... Base hardware information is readily available on most products produced outside of China or from companies not in China.

 

[Gionnirocket]

Are you afraid of the power ? You only swapped out the controller for smoothness ? Why have an Ultra, if you aren't going to use the power? Seems like a Bosch, Brose or Yamaha might be a better choice.

The 2300w version requires you have a new high end battery. Most don't and that would be a very expensive upgrade on top of the controller. So utilizing the Ultra with it's standard power output and a better controller has its place

 

[Gionnirocket]

So, you bring it up again ? Ha! I took it off because throttles have no place on a bike, IMO.

Poor @Stefan Mikes... This thread must be

 

[greeno]

Thats funny. " Don't turn a bicycle into an electric scooter", " Ha I took it off because throttles have no place on a bike, IMO" You just said you run in PAS 3-5 all the time. I feel running in PAS 5 is like super throttle on my bike. way to much for everyday riding.

100% off-road riding for me, to dangerous on the road. People that hate on bikes with throttle make me laugh. I see older folks riding there electric commuter bikes around and their trucking 20mph+ going up hills, and they don't have throttle's but thats ok? Cheatin is cheating brother.
On the BBSO2/BBSHD you can clown pedal on those and apply zero force on the pedals and just roll along fine, kinda like using a throttle yeah.
I typically would use my throttle to either keep me from pedal striking going up a steep pitch, rolling through some water or starting from a standstill on a hill.
JMO.

 

[TForan]

Thats funny. " Don't turn a bicycle into an electric scooter", " Ha I took it off because throttles have no place on a bike, IMO" You just said you run in PAS 3-5 all the time. I feel running in PAS 5 is like super throttle on my bike. way to much for everyday riding.

100% off-road riding for me, to dangerous on the road. People that hate on bikes with throttle make me laugh. I see older folks riding there electric commuter bikes around and their trucking 20mph+ going up hills, and they don't have throttle's but thats ok? Cheatin is cheating brother.
On the BBSO2/BBSHD you can clown pedal on those and apply zero force on the pedals and just roll along fine, kinda like using a throttle yeah.
I typically would use my throttle to either keep me from pedal striking going up a steep pitch, rolling through some water or starting from a standstill on a hill.
JMO.

My point is that all e-bikers need to keep up a good front on shared paths. So often I see guys rolling by too quickly on throttle only. Makes for a bad impression on regular bike riders who are looking for a reason to hate ebikes. Cheating ? What are we competing at ?

 

[vincent]

This thread is NOT about throttle tforan
Ahicks put this together as a resource for people to find info on programming
Don’t start this here AGAIN

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Poor @Stefan Mikes... This thread must be

 

[Gionnirocket]

View attachment 73425

You broke my heart @Stefan Mikes... you broke my heart.

 

[greeno]

TForan other riders are looking at (not you) because there is a MOTOR on your bike, not because of a throttle or not. I ride quite a bit out here in SD and have never had any condescending remarks made to me about having an e-bike. I also dont hate on the kids screaming downhill rippin past me, Their payback is when I pass them going uphill. Tit 4 tat.
Cheating? I use to internationally race road bikes back in the late 80's and early 90's and it was all about the motor on top of the bike, meaning your legs. So ANY assistance in peddaling would be regarded as cheating. 250w motor assist is ok but not 750w? Cmon.
I see alot of guys ( regular mountain bikes ) going downhill (with their bell ringing) and think they own the trail expecting everyone else to stay clear.
They reason I built up my current bike was because it could have a throttle. Rode a couple ofSpecialized, Haibikes etc. and they were ok but the main reason people buy the bikes with Bafang motors is because they are the only one to support a throttle period. Oh and maybe the wattage.

Not hatting on ya bud but a bike with the throttle or without is exactly the same, just the rider on top that makes the diff.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

You broke my heart @Stefan Mikes... you broke my heart.

"Into little tiny pieces, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah"
/The Vibrators "You Broke My Heart"/

 

[Gionnirocket]

"Into little tiny pieces, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah"
/The Vibrators "You Broke My Heart"/

I was thinking more along the lines of. . .

 

[TForan]

TForan other riders are looking at (not you) because there is a MOTOR on your bike, not because of a throttle or not. I ride quite a bit out here in SD and have never had any condescending remarks made to me about having an e-bike. I also dont hate on the kids screaming downhill rippin past me, Their payback is when I pass them going uphill. Tit 4 tat.
Cheating? I use to internationally race road bikes back in the late 80's and early 90's and it was all about the motor on top of the bike, meaning your legs. So ANY assistance in peddaling would be regarded as cheating. 250w motor assist is ok but not 750w? Cmon.
I see alot of guys ( regular mountain bikes ) going downhill (with their bell ringing) and think they own the trail expecting everyone else to stay clear.
They reason I built up my current bike was because it could have a throttle. Rode a couple ofSpecialized, Haibikes etc. and they were ok but the main reason people buy the bikes with Bafang motors is because they are the only one to support a throttle period. Oh and maybe the wattage.

Not hatting on ya bud but a bike with the throttle or without is exactly the same, just the rider on top that makes the diff.

I agree jackasses ride all kinds of bikes but on MUTs , it is important to ride with the upmost courtesy . One of the advantages of an ebikes ,is the fact you can slow way down around people with no concern of momentum . Riding too quickly on throttle only looks rude and stupid. Same as the spandex boys who are playing Lance as they go by at 25 mph. I try my best to not disturb anyone. Doing my bit, so maybe ebikes will be better accepted.

 

[vincent]

I CANNOT believe another thread that had nothing at all to do with throttle has gotten onto throttle vs pas AGAIN

seriously just don’t post on this thread , you have not added ONE thing to this discussion about different parameters for programming

do you have nothing else to do?
we are all aware of your thoughts on throttle - got it a million times over

 

[Gionnirocket]

I CANNOT believe another thread that had nothing at all to do with throttle has gotten onto throttle vs pas AGAIN

seriously just don’t post on this thread , you have not added ONE thing to this discussion about different parameters for programming

do you have nothing else to do?
we are all aware of your thoughts on throttle - got it a million times over

I guess the circle_jerk of firmware worship on the home forum got stagnant.
This thread is for those that understand that one size doesn't fit all and have the wherewithal to do something about it themselves.
I made some programming tweaks today as my needs are evolving. I'm thinking it makes the ability to have two profiles using the Archon controller more interesting.

 

[Gionnirocket]

To the best of my understanding, there's square wave, and there's sine wave. Every square wave I've run runs with a ringing sound, and, there's a noticeable buzz as you accelerate from a stop. My understanding is the sine wave provides a much "softer" power pulse to the motor. They're much quieter in operation, and they provide smoother acceleration from a stop. So, that in mind, I'm wondering if the stock Bafang Ultra and BBSxx controllers aren't sine wave as well?

My understanding of these high end/aftermarket controllers was that they are the product of software written to a MUCH higher (not to mention newer) standard. Keeping in mind Bafang hasn't changed their software for several years now, it's not hard to consider that a company not resting on their butt has had plenty of time to improve on what Bafang started with. I can understand these aftermarket companies wanting to capitalize on their development work, but at the same time find it unfortunate their work isn't open source like Bafang's.

We KNOW Stefan Penov was able to improve on the older BBSxx configuration software with a total rewrite there. Hopefully us poor folk will soon be able to capitalize on newly written Ultra software written with some of the newer tech. used in the aftermarket controllers, and shared as freeware. Yes, wishful thinking for sure! -Al

From what I can gather the stock Ultra uses square wave but as you mentioned much has to do with the software written as well. So though a square wave typically is louder, the software can mitigate some of this. And with both types of sine wave control, software plays a large role.
There's a bit of a difference between someone loading custom firmware on existing hardware or someone producing a new controller with it's own hardware and software.... Referring to Biktrix, WattWagon respectively. More so if the new controller uses different technology as being discussed here.
Since I'm happy with my current bbs02b... I'll sit back and see what develops here. I also think that since settings are personal.. the ability for end user adjustments are desirable

On a side note.. You may want to consider dropping (and BBSxx) from the subject line. The torque settings on the Ultra make it a very different and a bit more sophisticated animal and even some of the base settings on Pages 1 - 3 that they share don't carry over between the two and can muddy the waters for some... just my .07cent.