Bafang Ultra (and BBSxx) Tuning

[Gionnirocket]

Other than the throttle mods to tame it down a bit from a standing start, I don't think I've done anything to really improve it. I printed off copies of the sheets with the original settings, then made notes on those regarding my changes. I'm sure I can find them. Other than those on the first page, not many changes.

When I first started making changes here and there, it was based more on hunches. Like "well that doesn't make sense, maybe this will work better" kind of thing.

A little more experience to base the "hunches" on now, and a lot more "seat time", under all sorts of conditions, won't hurt anything either.

An example: Matt (m@Robertson) had a note in one of his posts regarding the time the motor runs on after power is shut off, and using that to complete a shift. That makes total sense now. Is one of the things I'll be looking at is that, as I believe I set that to an absolute minimum, thinking that it might be a low speed control issue if left running longer than necessary. -Al

Your definetly a patient guy... and slow and steady wins the race
I think I clocked about 60 .el files making changes to the BBS02B. That said most of the permanent changes were made by version 20 and the rest was just experimentation and then circling back to what worked for me. I think I had about 20 files trying to see if I could adopt the 100% speed in all PAS.
So no better range or efficiency discovered?

 

[AHicks]

Your definetly a patient guy... and slow and steady wins the race
I think I clocked about 60 .el files making changes to the BBS02B. That said most of the permanent changes were made by version 20 and the rest was just experimentation and then circling back to what worked for me. I think I had about 20 files trying to see if I could adopt the 100% speed in all PAS.
So no better range or efficiency discovered?

I do like playing the long game. All the wasted power it took to get me and the bike moving in a big hurry, and trimming that down to something more comfortable had to help increase the range/efficiency. Other than that, and maybe the change to 26x3 tires, the most efficient thing I've done is learning how to ride it while paying attention to the watt meter.

We're averaging about 35 miles on a charge now, starting with a full 100% charge and riding that down to 46v (+-). This while riding from a home smack dab in the middle of an area with lots of rolling coastal hills (think big old sand dunes, now covered with vegetation). -Al

 

[Xyeet]

Thanks!
I did read that article and forgot about the Kepler (purple) settings as they are aggressive in general. For example 30 for Start Current and 6 for Slow Start on page 2
Also the author did not try those setting and doesn't recommend using them without lowering overall current as they are possibly hardware damaging. The Kepler settings are far from what I am trying to accomplish (and I assumed you as well) and are geared more towards the younger trail riding crowd. I'm in search of easy peasy gradual and smooth.

Curious MR. @Thomas Jaszewski... you as the most experienced with the BBSxx. Have you any experience or seen anyone using this profile?

edit: I remembered Thomas loaded up some profiles: https://electricbikereview.com/forums/threads/bbs-settings-for-a-smoother-ride.37833/post-335247
Really not the consensus and seems as I assumed that it is for the aggressive rider.

I'd say Kepler's PAS settings are the best for most natural feeling cycling. Example on PAS 1 you can go as fast as you want and the motor helps you a little bit but doesn't cut off the power if you go over x mph. You can tune down the start current etc. but for the PAS speed limits at 100% works the best.

Here is good insight on the thing:

Hello John,
I’ve gone through Kepler and Karl’s settings, as well as many others, to learn how to change the settings and get the best use of the motor. All of the other profiles are wrong because they didn’t continue to change and improve them as they learned more. The settings in the “Limitless” series for the “Pedal Assist”, and “Throttle” tabs is really as good as it gets.
It’s really very simple. PAS doesn’t work on single-track since it is impossible to keep pedaling steady while dodging obstacles and cornering without catching a pedal and going down. So, PAS is for roads, paved or unpaved, and throttle is of single-track. While the bike is being ridden, the resistance is in a state of constant fluctuation, so any control on the motor has to capable of fluctuating as well, or it becomes an artificial inhibition instead. All of the PAS speed limits become artificial inhibitions, because they cannot fluctuate with the variable demands of the bikes resistance while it is being ridden. I have tuned PAS for the most transparent riding experience by removing all speed limits, and setting “Work Mode” to “Undeterminated”.
The idea behind my PAS settings was to keep the current low, and the intervals tight, so I can use all 8 levels when I ride. The PAS levels on all the other profiles are always “not enough”, or “too much”. I wanted to reduce the intervals enough so that the next step up is “just enough”, or the next step down is “just enough”. The settings on the other tabs have already been setup to ramp up slowly and gently, yet cut off power as quickly as possible. The throttle as well has been set to ramp up from 1%, instead of 10 or 20% for a smoother start, to reduce shocks to the drive train. The goal is to leave the settings in the “Pedal Assist” and “Throttle” tabs alone, and work on the PAS settings till they are close enough together to be able to use all 8 levels on a road that includes hills.
Sorry the link I included didn’t work for you. Downloads are only allowed on the forum if you are logged in, if not logged in, clicking on a download will give an error instead. What I ask of you is to sign up on our forum, download the file and run the program, then load the LimitlessBBS02 profile, and “Write Flash” to your controller. This will copy the whole profile at once to your controller. Please load this profile unaltered and try it out, using PAS on a road with a hill. Then send me an email, describing your feelings about how well it worked with your riding style, and how it felt. Then if there are any changes to be made, we can start working on them from there.

Thank you,
Joel

 

[Gionnirocket]

I'd say Kepler's PAS settings are the best for most natural feeling cycling. Example on PAS 1 you can go as fast as you want and the motor helps you a little bit but doesn't cut off the power if you go over x mph. You can tune down the start current etc. but for the PAS speed limits at 100% works the best.

Here is good insight on the thing:

I'm sorry but I don't like the Kepler settings.. and though they are a little smoother in general I wouldn't describe them as more natural.
They also lack adapting to road conditions such as automatically changing motor output for an incline and headwind and as such require you to keep changing PAS and/or use more battery. I don't require assistance going down hill or on a flat at high cadence.
By setting an incrimental speed in the PAS settings you can set a PAS to keep you at a certain speed and cadence and depending on the road and your input the motor will help only when and as much as needed. This does require you to be in the correct gear to maintain some level of smoothness.. But that's how I ride anyway.
Not saying it's better... Just what I am looking for out of an eBike

 

[Xyeet]

I'm sorry but I don't like the Kepler settings.. and though they are a little smoother in general I wouldn't describe them as more natural.
They also lack adapting to road conditions such as automatically changing motor output for an incline and headwind and as such require you to keep changing PAS and/or use more battery. I don't require assistance going down hill or on a flat at high cadence.
By setting an incrimental speed in the PAS settings you can set a PAS to keep you at a certain speed and cadence and depending on the road and your input the motor will help only when and as much as needed. This does require you to be in the correct gear to maintain some level of smoothness.. But that's how I ride anyway.
Not saying it's better... Just what I am looking for out of an eBike

Yeah different tastes! I'll just dial PAS up if I need more assistance, I like that assistance is more continuous and not on/off type. Great thing in Bafang motors that you can program the way you want to have them. Although at some point I'd like to try mid drive with torque sensor.

 

[m@Robertson]

Although at some point I'd like to try mid drive with torque sensor.

I did and I was unimpressed to say the least. Ride a friend's bike, don't buy one. Although I am glad I did because it also let me check out an IGH and a Gates belt, both of which I loved. You won't experience the issues with torque sensing unless you do some extended riding with it.

I Hate Ebike Torque-Sensing (maybe you should too)

Well, I don’t actually hate it, but it is a technology rooted in cycling’s past, whose existence was created to market a product to legacy riders.

talesontwowheels.com

 

[TNC]

Yeah different tastes! I'll just dial PAS up if I need more assistance, I like that assistance is more continuous and not on/off type. Great thing in Bafang motors that you can program the way you want to have them. Although at some point I'd like to try mid drive with torque sensor.

"Different tastes" is right. Being new to ebikes and the mid-drive BBSHD I have, I'm seeing a pattern with the advice given here on this forum and elsewhere. And mind you, this isn't a complaint...apparently just the nature of the format. It appears that many, maybe most, of the ebike forums are more pavement, commuter, dirt road, etc. focused than more aggressive mountain biking, and I kind of get where that's coming from.

After riding our demo Trek Rail at the shop I work at part time as a mechanic, the bug bit me hard to convert one of my better, older MTB's to a mid-drive. After only a couple of outings, I am hooked. I'm sure I will be able to reprogram some improvements into the software, but it was quite rideable the first time out. It's a little abrupt in its initial power delivery when hitting the pedals again, but I'm also used to riding dirt motorcycles, so that's not a totally alien issue.

While I'm sure I will be able to tailor my motor's program more ideally with time, I was hoping to find more experienced, trail oriented suggestions on these different forums to not have to start from scratch. I've done a lot of reading but have not found a lot of data. That Karl Gesslein fellow is pretty informative, but most of the info I found from him on a true MTB application involved the BBS02 version. On this EBR site, there is a trail section, but it doesn't seem to offer a lot of info either on program numbers. I will post this there, however, to cover the bases.

So...anyone know of good, specific, mountain biking program numbers on the HD from any source? Xyeet, I agree that a torque sensing HD would be awesome. It works really great on the Trek and Specialized ebikes we sell. Still, I'm impressed with how this HD feels and hope to get a smoother, more efficient power delivery.

 

[Xyeet]

"Different tastes" is right. Being new to ebikes and the mid-drive BBSHD I have, I'm seeing a pattern with the advice given here on this forum and elsewhere. And mind you, this isn't a complaint...apparently just the nature of the format. It appears that many, maybe most, of the ebike forums are more pavement, commuter, dirt road, etc. focused than more aggressive mountain biking, and I kind of get where that's coming from.

After riding our demo Trek Rail at the shop I work at part time as a mechanic, the bug bit me hard to convert one of my better, older MTB's to a mid-drive. After only a couple of outings, I am hooked. I'm sure I will be able to reprogram some improvements into the software, but it was quite rideable the first time out. It's a little abrupt in its initial power delivery when hitting the pedals again, but I'm also used to riding dirt motorcycles, so that's not a totally alien issue.

While I'm sure I will be able to tailor my motor's program more ideally with time, I was hoping to find more experienced, trail oriented suggestions on these different forums to not have to start from scratch. I've done a lot of reading but have not found a lot of data. That Karl Gesslein fellow is pretty informative, but most of the info I found from him on a true MTB application involved the BBS02 version. On this EBR site, there is a trail section, but it doesn't seem to offer a lot of info either on program numbers. I will post this there, however, to cover the bases.

So...anyone know of good, specific, mountain biking program numbers on the HD from any source? Xyeet, I agree that a torque sensing HD would be awesome. It works really great on the Trek and Specialized ebikes we sell. Still, I'm impressed with how this HD feels and hope to get a smoother, more efficient power delivery.

You might want to try these: https://electricbike.com/forum/foru...ntain-bike-program-settings?p=45204#post45204

When I was researching many trail riders were using Limitless and Kepler's settings on bbs02, they might work even with bbshd just keep the current limit higher.

 

[tomjasz]

I have a number of .el files. PM with an email address and I'll send them. The forum will not let me attach .el
files.
filesfiles

will not let me attach .el files

 

[TNC]

You might want to try these: https://electricbike.com/forum/foru...ntain-bike-program-settings?p=45204#post45204

When I was researching many trail riders were using Limitless and Kepler's settings on bbs02, they might work even with bbshd just keep the current limit higher.

Thanks for that link. That Deuce4 fellow looks to have some decent research, but it is for the BBS02. You bring up something that I was wanting know...how similar are the program and inputs between the BBS02 and BBSHD? Looking closely at the recent Ultra programming thread almost looks like some similarities with the BBSHD...but I'm no expert here by any means.

 

[TNC]

I have a number of .el files. PM with an email address and I'll send them. The forum will not let me attach .el
files.
filesfilesView attachment 86072 will not let me attach .el files

tomjasz...PM sent.

 

[Gionnirocket]

I have a number of .el files. PM with an email address and I'll send them. The forum will not let me attach .el
files.
filesfilesView attachment 86072 will not let me attach .el files

Santo Bafango strikes again!

 

[smorgasbord]

Stock Ultra settings and Programming guide

By proceeding with the following you are acknowledging that you are following these instructions carefully and in full. Biktrix is not liable for any changes being made resulting in corruption of t...

support.biktrix.com

Biktrix's page doesn't cover the all-important Torque tab settings. It says that would be covered in another post, but that users shouldn't change them. I didn't see another post - is there one?

 

[Gionnirocket]

Biktrix's page doesn't cover the all-important Torque tab settings. It says that would be covered in another post, but that users shouldn't change them. I didn't see another post - is there one?

Do yourself a favor and drop any Biktrix recommendations. It was copied from others and poorly at that.

 

[tomjasz]

Do yourself a favor and drop any Biktrix recommendations.

What's your bone with Roshan? I can't see where the issues Biktrix has are any different than their competition? Look, you know I respect your input and opinion, but it's beginning to look like you have my Rad attitude with Biktrix.

 

[Gionnirocket]

What's your bone with Roshan? I can't see where the issues Biktrix has are any different than their competition? Look, you know I respect your input and opinion, but it's beginning to look like you have my Rad attitude with Biktrix.

Everything I've come across regarding them rubs me the wrong way.
Issues, sure ok.. attitude and business practices, not interested in at all.
And don't get me started on the cheerleaders

 

[tomjasz]

Too bad. Roshan is a standup guy.

 

[Gionnirocket]

Too bad. Roshan is a standup guy

Possibly.... But he's no Santo Bafango!

 

[voidedwarranty]

Do yourself a favor and drop any Biktrix recommendations. It was copied from others and poorly at that.

I mean I can vouch for this. Their page has the explanations of throttle inputs backwards for current vs. speed.