Are you going to buy a Riese & Müller?

[Bruiser]

Jay …

My Homage has been an extraordinarily disappointing ebike.

The design concept is brilliant – essentially a step-through version of the Delite – but reliability is altogether unacceptable.

The bike has been rendered useless on multiple occasions. Both the motor and Rohloff E-14 have suddenly stopped working. One moment operating faultlessly, the next kaput! And on each occasion, I've been riding along a nice paved road or cycleway.

Don't blame Bosch; don't blame Rohloff. The fault isn't in the drive components themselves but in what I shall term 'the wiring', the way in which Riese & Müller have put the package together.

As I write this, the Homage is again out of action. This time the trouble resulted from what I have described elsewhere as a fundamental design blunder: mounting the second battery on the hinged lid of the internal battery's cover. How could Riese & Müller do such a ridiculous thing!

And one more thing: none of these failures has been covered by Riese & Müller's warranty.

… David

Hi David, as your problem is clearly a manufacturing defect it will be covered under Australian consumer law. Riese and Muller can say whatever the heck they like about their warranty, but it does not transcend our consumer legal rights. Any item sold in Australia must be of merchantable quality, be fit for purpose and have durability appropriate to its cost. So I would recommend insisting to the bike shop that the problem is either fixed, or your money is refunded, or they replace the bike as you choose. Have a look at the ACCC website for more information.

Having said that I am taking delivery of my new Supercharger 2 Gt Rohloff today. As I am leasing the bike, I will be insisting the bike performs flawlessly, or is repaired or replaced without delay.

 

[Law]

At this price point, im out On all RM bikes.

why would you lease a bike ??

 

[Taylor57]

Hi David, as your problem is clearly a manufacturing defect it will be covered under Australian consumer law. Riese and Muller can say whatever the heck they like about their warranty, but it does not transcend our consumer legal rights. Any item sold in Australia must be of merchantable quality, be fit for purpose and have durability appropriate to its cost. So I would recommend insisting to the bike shop that the problem is either fixed, or your money is refunded, or they replace the bike as you choose. Have a look at the ACCC website for more information.

Having said that I am taking delivery of my new Supercharger 2 Gt Rohloff today. As I am leasing the bike, I will be insisting the bike performs flawlessly, or is repaired or replaced without delay.

Good luck on the delay part...

 

[pnowak2]

At this price point, im out On all RM bikes.

why would you lease a bike ??

im thinking about leasing too, below my personal motivation

company which leases ebikes in luxembourg has 10% price drop on every r-m ebike, which kind of compensates leasing interest, at the end after leasing end the final price is close to retail price buying for cash.
but the most imporant is that you can max the specs and take bike with dual battery and rohloff, paying monthly relatively slow installments instead of dropping whole 7-10kEUR at once.
ebike will be insured and with service package

its more or less what small businesses/companies do buying cars..

does it make any sense to you in regard to ebike ?

 

[Alaskan]

This discussion makes me glad I sold my Homage after getting the leaky Rohloff repaired. It ran well but started leaking oil that was getting on the the center of the rear brake rotor. Just a matter of time till centrifugal force spun the oil out to the braking surface. I really liked the maintenance free aspect of the Rohloff belt combo. However the delays and lousy service, nearly three months in the shop in year 1 and total lack of communication provided by Rohloff's chosen service company in North America negated the reliability factor of the Rohloff. I have lost my trust in Rohloff as a result. I must say that LA Fly Rides, my R&M dealer has been a stalwart ally through all of this.

I am back to a derailleur/chain drive train that I can work on myself or get serviced at any bike shop. It may be a greasy affair that needs more routine attention, but it keeps my bike on the road and out of the shop and that is the ultimate value in my book.

My Delight mountain has been a work horse and my new Trek Allant +9.9s has been like having a sports car compared to the Delight being an SUV.

My next big expenditure is to retrofit my Delight with the same drive train as the Allant...Shimano 12 speed cassette with 10-51 tooth sprockets, Sram AXS wireless derailleur, Onyx microspline hub with Sprag clutch for instant engagement and silent gliding. And maybe a set of carbon fiber rims for the Allant.

Tech

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[nashdm2]

Alaskan, tell me more about your Rohloff oil leak please. I have a new bike and I was planning to change the rear brake disc/rotor to a 203. But, its not as easy as I first thought as you have to remove some Rohloff bolts etc and I am concerned that it will leak afterwards, even though I have ordered some new gaskets.

 

[Bruiser]

im thinking about leasing too, below my personal motivation

company which leases ebikes in luxembourg has 10% price drop on every r-m ebike, which kind of compensates leasing interest, at the end after leasing end the final price is close to retail price buying for cash.
but the most imporant is that you can max the specs and take bike with dual battery and rohloff, paying monthly relatively slow installments instead of dropping whole 7-10kEUR at once.
ebike will be insured and with service package

its more or less what small businesses/companies do buying cars..

does it make any sense to you in regard to ebike ?

That is much the same reason I am leasing in Australia. The maintenance and repairs are also covered in the lease payments.

 

[Deleted member 18083]

I am back to a derailleur/chain drive train that I can work on myself… it keeps my bike on the road and out of the shop.

Alaskan, tell me more about your Rohloff oil leak please.

I've had my Homage for just under twenty months during which time it's been unable to be ridden due to failures for more than ten weeks.

For example, it has been with the R&M dealer for the last three weeks and will probably not be returned before the end of this coming week. Of course, 2020 has been a year like no other; however, there remains the issue of the frequency of failures.

In the photo…

• Velcro straps holding the combined lid (for the internal battery) and mounting plate (for external battery) in place. Major problem.
• Dust adhering to an oily film on the rear rim from a leaking Rohloff seal. Not a major issue.

To return to this thread's title, Are you going to buy a Riese & Müller? It could be so, because R&M ebikes like the Homage are special. Who else makes a Homage-style, or even a Delite competitor? But that is also a good reason to buy a more conventional ebike: I've been waiting to see Trek's Allant+ offerings for 2021. Or will the 2021 Homage win out? The Cannondale Topstone? (Act your age, Dave!)

Another Rohloff sometime in the future? No, my next ebike will have a conventional chain/derailleur. I like the Homage's Rohloff but one internal gear hub at a time is enough. The 2019 Homage is my second Rohloff (Airnimal folding bike previously) and I would like to keep it for my remaining cycling years. I know it will last but I'm hesitant to praise its claimed 'legendary indestructibility'.

 

[Alaskan]

Alaskan, tell me more about your Rohloff oil leak please. I have a new bike and I was planning to change the rear brake disc/rotor to a 203. But, its not as easy as I first thought as you have to remove some Rohloff bolts etc and I am concerned that it will leak afterwards, even though I have ordered some new gaskets.

I and others have written extensively about oil leaks on Rohloffs. I am not going to, once again, write about my experience. Suffice to say the leak was a minor problem, getting it repaired under warranty by Rohloff's designated warranty service center destroyed my faith in them.

There is a very useful search function on this forum at the upper left of each page. Here is a page generated by the search using the words "Rohloff oil leak" where you can read all about it: https://electricbikereview.com/forums/search/1213817/?q=rohloff+oil+leak&o=relevance

 

[Law]

Bulls Iconic TR1 speed very similar to delite. And Front handle bar has wide angle adjustment. And german as well.

I rode Topstone Lefty, no comparison to a full suspension bike and it was clunky on shifts.

 

[webcurl]

I've been waiting to see Trek's Allant+ offerings for 2021. Or will the 2021 Homage win out? The Cannondale Topstone? (Act your age, Dave!)

You'll be going away from long touring?
This is Austrian, not German, can get it in E14

Kagu Bosch CX for women and men | E-bike by Simplon

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[TimJohn]

I am selling a couple of motorcycles to fund a 2021 Charger 3 and even with this it doesn't cover the cost. Life is short but wonderful and unfortunately quality things cost money.

 

[TimJohn]

Yes I just place an order for a Multicharger Mixte Vario cargo bike. Unfortunately, the dealer said this particular frame in slated to go into production later so I probably will have to wait until the beginning of the year (approx January). Luckily, I have a couple of e-bikes already and have my heart set on this cargo version of a R&M.

 

[navychop]

I admit, I would like to drive one just to feel the difference between Riese and my Lectric XP. I bit the bullet and bought a Porsche last year, and now I rarely drive it due to Covid and my XP...

My wife and I rented $4,500 R&M bikes last October in Gibraltar. The ride was to the top of the rock. We wish we had our two Lectric XP's with us. Wife could not make it to the top. Even on moderate grades in Turbo, I would give them a grade of maybe D.

 

[Alaskan]

My wife and I rented $4,500 R&M bikes last October in Gibraltar. The ride was to the top of the rock. We wish we had our two Lectric XP's with us. Wife could not make it to the top. Even on moderate grades in Turbo, I would give them a grade of maybe D.

apples and oranges...both fruit but way different.

 

[TimJohn]

Depends what version of the R&M that you had...with the 4th generation Bosch motor with 85 nM of torque I don't really this would have been a problem. So R&M's you rented most likely were older versions (Gen1 or 2).

 

[Francois145]

Delivery updates for the R&MDelite.

For Europe, at least 3 months (week 51) - close to Christmas... and more delays are expected.

Could be more for North America, I presume.

 

[Lumos]

Depends what version of the R&M that you had...with the 4th generation Bosch motor with 85 nM of torque I don't really this would have been a problem. So R&M's you rented most likely were older versions (Gen1 or 2).

We have managed to amass a collection of Bosch powered bikes, one gen 1, two gen 2, two CX Performance and two gen 4 2021 Superdelites HS. The Superdelite certainly seems to have the least torque of all, even less than my wife's first bike the gen 1 which I seem to recall was rated at around 60Nm. My CX performance will start up like a startled gazelle, the Superdelite more like a reluctant schoolboy on a Monday morning. Perhaps it is an HS thing, although Bosch did say that the 2021 torque was now the same as the non-HS version. Perhaps it is but delivered differently, it certainly scoots along at higher speeds well. Whilst there is no standard way of measuring the torques on different bikes it is hard to know what is going on. I don't even know if they are measuring it before or after the gears. Also, the power curve seems narrower than previous generation motors. On the SuperDelite you really need to keep the revs up otherwise it fades quickly and you can stall before you can get the Rohloff to change down enough.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

To return to this thread's title, Are you going to buy a Riese & Müller?

Late to the thread:

Being the owner of:

1. Top of the line (Speed) Vado 5.0 (equivalent of 2020 Euro 6.0): a fast commuter;
2. Giant Trance E+ 2 Pro - a proper e-MTB;
3. Lovelec, a quick traditional touring e-bike;

the question if I would buy a Riese & Mueller e-bike is answered NO.

• Too expensive
• Too heavy
• Bosch motor (one noisy motor in my stable is more than enough, and the 85 Nm of the Gen 4 is same as in my Giant SyncDrive Pro)

If I wanted to have a single, properly suspended and speed e-bike, that would probably be Bulls E-Stream EVO 45 AM. Or, I would invest in the Vado 6.0, (only missing the rear suspension but that can be made up with the Kinekt 2.1 seat-post). The major point is: I often need to carry my e-bikes in my hands. A heavy e-bike is disqualified for me.

P.S. The only feature appealing to me in the Homage is the suspended rack: worth every money!

 

[navychop]

apples and oranges...both fruit but way different.

apples and oranges...both fruit but way different.

Agree on the fruits analogy, mine was a lemon.