Are we now looking at 30% tariffs on ebikes ?

[Deleted member 4210]

Trump just announced that the existing $250 billion of goods from China that had 25% tariffs, will go up to 30%. And the $300 billion in goods set to have a 10% tariff levied on them September 1st, will instead increase to 15%.

The 30% tariff starts Oct. 1st.

At least according to his Twitter feed.

 

[DaveMatthews]

No idea... but none of it sounds positive for an end user. At least in the short term.

 

[FlatSix911]

Play the long game... we may end up with reduced tariffs on both sides

 

[stanmiller]

Play the long game... we may end up with reduced tariffs on both sides

But seriously... One person shouldn't be allowed to do live economic experiments that negatively impact the lives of millions (and perhaps billions) worldwide.

One thing is certain, those in finance are making a killing as the volatility leads retirement accounts to flow into the purses of day-traders and hedge fund managers. Retailers hedge and stock warehouses at pre-tariff prices and enjoy post-tariff profits. Genius!

This tariff war isn't about improving the well-being of millions of middle Americans. It's yet another pump-and-dump scheme.

 

[Alaskan]

What's everyone so concerned about. China will be paying those tariffs, right? Sarcasm alert!!!

 

[Ebiker33]

Ebikes should be excluded we have no mass production ability anyways, there is no jobs it is taking away, if ebikes are affordable it will create more sales and LBS will get busier employing more people.

 

[Afren]

One trick pony President.

 

[TForan]

One trick pony President.

Get used to it, we'll have him until 2024.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

Ebikes should be excluded we have no mass production ability anyways, there is no jobs it is taking away, if ebikes are affordable it will create more sales and LBS will get busier employing more people.

Where do you get your information?

U.S. manufacturing is the largest in the world. It produces 18.2 percent of the world's goods. That's more than the entire economic output of Canada, Korea, or Mexico. But America's leadership position is threatened by high operating costs. That gives a competitive edge to other countries. First among these is China. Its low-cost factories manufacture 17.6 percent of the world's products.

...

Manufacturing is an essential component of gross domestic product. In 2018, it was $2.33 trillion. That drove 11.6 percent of U.S. economic output, according to the Bureau of Economic Analysis. Manufactured goods comprise half of U.S. exports.

Manufacturing adds a lot of value to the power of the U.S. economy. Every dollar spent in manufacturing adds $1.89 in business growth in other supporting sectors, according to the National Association of Manufacturers. These include retailing, transportation, and business services.

The United States has 12.75 million manufacturing jobs, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics. That employs 8.5 percent of the workforce. These jobs pay 12 percent more than all others. In 2017, they earned an average of $84,832 per worker. This includes benefits. That's $40.79 per hour.

...

From https://www.thebalance.com/u-s-manufacturing-what-it-is-statistics-and-outlook-3305575

So $2.33 trillion and 18.2 percent of the world's goods doesn't sound like "no mass production ability" -- at least to me.

Similar, though not identical, figures are available on https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manufacturing_in_the_United_States

 

[City Commuter]

Tech companies were the among the hardest hit on Friday, with tech stocks on the S&P 500 index closing down 3.2% close. The tariff-sensitive Philadelphia chip index .SOX slid 4.4%. Shares of chip manufacturer Nvidia Corp (NVDA.O) lost 5.3% and Apple Inc (AAPL.O) fell 4.6%.
Tariffs are costing the U.S. tech sector $1.3 billion a month, the Consumer Technology Association said in a statement to the United States trade representative in June. The U.S. plan for more tariffs would raise the retail price of cellphones by an average of $70, laptop computers by $120 and video game consoles by $56, the association has said.

Factbox: From phone makers to farmers, the toll of Trump's trade wars

The world's two largest economies, China and the United States, on Friday exchanged blows in the latest escalation in their trade war that has roiled supply chains and whipsawed financial markets.

www.reuters.com

 

[Ebiker33]

Where do you get your information?



From https://www.thebalance.com/u-s-manufacturing-what-it-is-statistics-and-outlook-3305575

So $2.33 trillion and 18.2 percent of the world's goods doesn't sound like "no mass production ability" -- at least to me.

Similar, though not identical, figures are available on https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manufacturing_in_the_United_States

Ok yes, I get the point, but I am specifically talking about massed produced Ebikes that are under 2K and can have at least a 48V 14amp/hr battery, Rad Bikes is fully against the tariffs and they are a Seattle based company.
The bigger picture needs to be looked at in this sector, I buy a 2K Radbike, then I start buying accessories for it, some might be from American companies like Kinetic or Cane Creek, or I might go to my local bike shop for tune ups, which I never did before. These specific tariffs on Ebikes is just a really bad policy. But I agree with huge tariffs on food coming from China, we need to grow and support what we eat right here no matter the cost, it's a bigger issue of self-maintenance to exist should things go bad.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

Ok yes, I get the point, but I am specifically talking about massed produced Ebikes that are under 2K and can have at least a 48V 14amp/hr battery, Rad Bikes is fully against the tariffs and they are a Seattle based company.
The bigger picture needs to be looked at in this sector, I buy a 2K Radbike, then I start buying accessories for it, some might be from American companies like Kinetic or Cane Creek, or I might go to my local bike shop for tune ups, which I never did before. These specific tariffs on Ebikes is just a really bad policy. But I agree with huge tariffs on food coming from China, we need to grow and support what we eat right here no matter the cost, it's a bigger issue of self-maintenance to exist should things go bad.

I really don't know what to say to you.

My personal opinion is that anyone who is worried about e-bike prices with respect to this current trade spat is kind of like someone whose house is on fire and is concerned about their pillows smelling like smoke.

How exactly is trade a bad idea? I am pretty sure that you didn't build your own house, and you probably don't grow all of your food, make your own clothes, cut your hair, do your own dental work, and build yourself a PC from raw materials and write your own software to get on the Internet. On a slightly larger scale, Michigan "exports" cars to Wyoming but I don't think people in Wyoming have a problem with it, nor do people in New York have a problem with importing food from Iowa. How exactly is that different and how exactly does that become a problem when trade is between different countries?

The net effect of trade is that it makes everyone, on average, better off (note the "on average" -- some people are definitely screwed over by foreign competition). Unless you are insane you can't simultaneously argue that "trade" takes away jobs and point out that the US has the lowest unemployment rate in decades.

This thread keeps coming up over and over again because we live in a world that has gone absolutely nuts.

Please read some history. When international trading systems like what we have today break down economic collapse and war follow. So unless you like those things our government's current policy can only be described as suicidal.

 

[tomjasz]

Creative resellers are moving batteries to USA shippers and beating the tariffs. This whole adventure is total bullshit. But then again, so is our current POTUS.

 

[Ebiker33]

I really don't know what to say to you.

My personal opinion is that anyone who is worried about e-bike prices with respect to this current trade spat is kind of like someone whose house is on fire and is concerned about their pillows smelling like smoke.

How exactly is trade a bad idea? I am pretty sure that you didn't build your own house, and you probably don't grow all of your food, make your own clothes, cut your hair, do your own dental work, and build yourself a PC from raw materials and write your own software to get on the Internet. On a slightly larger scale, Michigan "exports" cars to Wyoming but I don't think people in Wyoming have a problem with it, nor do people in New York have a problem with importing food from Iowa. How exactly is that different and how exactly does that become a problem when trade is between different countries?

The net effect of trade is that it makes everyone, on average, better off (note the "on average" -- some people are definitely screwed over by foreign competition). Unless you are insane you can't simultaneously argue that "trade" takes away jobs and point out that the US has the lowest unemployment rate in decades.

This thread keeps coming up over and over again because we live in a world that has gone absolutely nuts.

Please read some history. When international trading systems like what we have today break down economic collapse and war follow. So unless you like those things our government's current policy can only be described as suicidal.

I have a different perspective than you, the industry I worked in was devastated by the relocation of factories to China, those companies continued to prosper under capitalism, and the general consumer was not even aware of it. But all those people lost their jobs. All I am saying is if industry already exists in North America protect it, food & cars for example. Mass produced Ebikes at an economical price point does not exist because it’s a newer industry, it needs no protection because there is no jobs to be lost. But the fringe spin off business is huge, just pick your battles and be smart about it. And Trump isn’t doing that, he is casting a huge net, and hurting some industries as well as helping other industries. It needs to be looked at more carefully.
For the record I don’t think there should be any tariffs at all between countries that pay there workers similar pay and benefits.

 

[phoenixtoohot]

I really don't know what to say to you.

My personal opinion is that anyone who is worried about e-bike prices with respect to this current trade spat is kind of like someone whose house is on fire and is concerned about their pillows smelling like smoke.

How exactly is trade a bad idea? I am pretty sure that you didn't build your own house, and you probably don't grow all of your food, make your own clothes, cut your hair, do your own dental work, and build yourself a PC from raw materials and write your own software to get on the Internet. On a slightly larger scale, Michigan "exports" cars to Wyoming but I don't think people in Wyoming have a problem with it, nor do people in New York have a problem with importing food from Iowa. How exactly is that different and how exactly does that become a problem when trade is between different countries?

The net effect of trade is that it makes everyone, on average, better off (note the "on average" -- some people are definitely screwed over by foreign competition). Unless you are insane you can't simultaneously argue that "trade" takes away jobs and point out that the US has the lowest unemployment rate in decades.

This thread keeps coming up over and over again because we live in a world that has gone absolutely nuts.

Please read some history. When international trading systems like what we have today break down economic collapse and war follow. So unless you like those things our government's current policy can only be described as suicidal.

 

[phoenixtoohot]

Very good summary Mr.Coffee. Cheap labor moves around the world. Our $500 billion trade deficit with China amounts to $1,500 per capita, or about $3,900 per household. Some have said as much as $5,000 per household. Everytime I buy something at Walmart, or any durable goods, I am thankful for China's products. Now that they are no longer a developing economy (their GDP exceeds ours now, even though they have 1.4 billion people). So now cheap labor will begin to move to other regions of the world. I never agreed with Trump that we could bring back manufacturing jobs to the U.S. in a big way because we would still be competing with $5/hour labor rates, when our burdened union rates are $60/hour plus. BUT, I do agree that China has stolen billions of dollars of our IP. The PLA employs thousands of people tasked with hacking/steeling our companies IP. Did you know that GM sold more cars in China than they did in the U.S last year? To do this, GM had to build plants in China and share (give) their manufacturing processes (i.e., IP) to China. So, in a way this is stealing also.

Like Mr.Coffee said, people who worry about E-bike prices, are like worrying about their pillows smelling like smoke when their house is on fire. The way I see it, Trump is totally correct in this part of taking on China. We need to protect our IP, assuming it's not too late, as we have either given away too much (e.g. the price GM and others have paid to have access to the Chinese market), and they continue to steal the equivalent of hundred's of billions of our IP per year.

I'm going to purchase 2 e-bikes in the Fall, and I'm not too happy about possibly paying 10% or more for them, but since 99% of bicycles are produced in either China or Taiwan, I don't have a choice.

 

[Greencat]

I'm going to purchase 2 e-bikes in the Fall, and I'm not too happy about possibly paying 10% or more for them, but since 99% of bicycles are produced in either China or Taiwan, I don't have a choice.

Your choice would be to tell Trump and anyone who will listen to drop tariffs. There is no place for tariffs in a global economy. Those companies choose to manufacture there and knew the rules. GM could have said no and shipped from the US just like BMW does with the X5.

 

[phoenixtoohot]

• GM sales of cars produced in China in 2018 approx $120 billion (4 million cars) GM U.S. sales in 2018 were 3.4 million cars)
• BMW exports to China in 2018 approximately $4.5 billion (100,000 cars)
• Electric bicycle market in U.S. in 2018 approx $0.25 billion

Not sure I'm going to get Trump's attention on E-bikes, nor should I try.

 

[J.R.]

I was raised by the idea, buy American whenever possible. Here's a funny anecdote. I can remember the first time I went to a Walmart. It was during a winter vacation to Florida in the early 90's. Living up north I'd heard about Walmarts, but as there weren't any stores up north I'd never been. I started shopping and looking for the 'made in the USA'. Yeah, I know you can't do that now. I was surprised how many products I found made here. At the checkout they used paper bags! Another surprise. Both sides of the Walmart paper bag were printed, one side read: 'We buy American, so you can too'. The other side read: 'We use paper to protect the environment, so you can too'.

The system we have now has made a lot of people rich, I don't begrudge that. Politicians and businesses in the 1990's mortgaged the future to get rich quick. How can a 'public servant' making 180k a year become a multimillionaire in 15 or 20 years? In business it's called insider trading. The system foundation was poor and crooked, and was setup to eventually hurt. The smaller you are, the more it will hurt. We can kick the can down the road some more for it to hurt our kids and grandkids, but they already have a huge debt waiting for them.

It's not about protecting ebike jobs. It's about hitting China anywhere we can, because they hit us where they can. I have no idea if these actions by the US will work. I don't like it, I don't like the pain. We have to try something. I'll listen to anyone's ideas, except putting off the hurt by kicking the can down the road.

I'm not making a political argument here. I don't get into online party politics. There isn't one politician in office, or running for office now I could say I'm proud of their work. None!

 

[MarkF]

I posted this in another thread but I think it's relevant here too.
China is also suffering from product design theft inside it's own country. My lipo factory will only give tours to dealers that live outside the country. The Chinese government is trying to crack down on corporate espionage which is rampant inside it's own country. There own way of life that allowed copying everyone else, is catching up with them. China has many engineers, who design many products that don'y copy anyone else. But now they are finding their own products being copied by other Chinese company's. Seems a little karma is catching up with them.