Are my assumptions correct?

[High Plains Rider]

I recently threw out a post “Still considering changing from Rad Rover (and Rad)” and got some good feedback. However, in my pursuit to find a lighter ebike (something under 50 lbs), I’ve come to realize that it’s all about trade offs. So I am now trying to figure out what my highest priorities are and in the process I have made some assumptions. Please let me know if these assumptions are correct.

1. I have no desire to exceed 20 mph, so there is no reason to consider a class 3 ebike.
2. A lighter ebike will need less torque as compared to a heavier bike like the Rad Rover, so a 500 watt motor could perform as well as a 750 watt motor because of less weight.
3. Hydraulic brakes are superior to disc brakes, however there will be increased maintenance.
4. Torque sensors are not always preferred. It’s like choosing your saddle, it personal preference.

My most important priority is COMFORT as I prefer a more upright riding position, followed by POWER. I still need power to climb hills and take on the wind in the midwest (I weight 230 lbs). BATTERY RANGE must go 45-50 miles, not sure what that means in watts. FRONT SUSPENSION as I do ride gravel about 20% of the time. LIGHTER WEIGHT mostly for transferring using my OneUp USA rack. HYDRAULIC BRAKES would be nice but not a deal breaker. TORQUE SENSORS if that’s my preference after a test ride. Of course PRICE is important, but I am willing to pay up if I see the value.

I welcome your feedback.

 

[old guy 666]

Sounds about like my requirements, except I didn't really need front suspension. I got a Motobecane Mulekick that is 35 pounds. It came as a flat bar gravel cross bike, so I swapped out the bars for something more upright. It is additional to the same bike in non electric. Hydraulic disc brakes (I would never go back). 1x11 gearing offers enough range, doing away with the weight and complexity of a front derailer. I usually only ride 12-14, but I am just trying to keep up with a faster person on a non electric bike. I have it set to minimum boost and get 45 miles out of a 200 watt battery, but I will drop the boost down to zero if I get a tailwind. 500 watts should be plenty, if you get the bike weight down.

 

[fooferdoggie]

HYDRAULIC BRAKES dont usually take more maintenance. if you have them set up well except for changing pads they can go years with nothing more. with mechanical brakes you have to manually adjust the pads for wear and may have to recenter them as they wear. housing can wear out too.

 

[mschwett]

generally correct, but re #2, even a pretty heavy ebike (say, 70lb) which is twice as heavy as a light one (35lb) is only about 12 percent more total weight. that will not make any difference with wind, at all. it'll make a difference for acceleration and for hill climbing. the way to significantly improve the "range to watts" is aerodynamics, assuming you're going 15-20mph (and not uphill at 5-10!) but is comfort is your main priority that'll have to take a back seat.

re #3, high quality hydraulic brakes require very little maintenance. i have like 15k miles on my two bikes with hydraulic disk brakes, all i've really done is changed the pads every few thousand miles, the rotors once. one brake bleed on one bike.

 

[6zfshdb]

For me anyway, biking is all about comfort. Yes, the various components that make a bike comfortable do add some weight but it's small potatoes compared to all the gear I carry. IMO, weight concerns are more for conventional bikes. The fact that it's an e-bike more than compensates for some added weight.

If you like the Rad and your weight concern is due to difficulty loading & unloading, perhaps you should be looking to replace your rack instead of the bike. there are many available with ramps or lift mechanics that ease the loading process considerably. Sure, racks are pricey but generally cheaper than a new bike.

Just my 2 cents. YMMV.

 

[harryS]

Keep the Rad and pick up a second ebike, like the Aventon Soltera.2. You can always ride the fat tire on bumpy gravel. You can easily switch to cable operated hydraulic calipers for $22/wheel, and they're maintenance free.

 

[High Plains Rider]

Keep the Rad and pick up a second ebike, like the Aventon Soltera.2. You can always ride the fat tire on bumpy gravel. You can easily switch to cable operated hydraulic calipers for $22/wheel, and they're maintenance free.

You can use hydraulic calipers without hydraulic cables and brake fluid?

 

[fooferdoggie]

You can use hydraulic calipers without hydraulic cables and brake fluid?

the calipers are hydraulic but they use a cable to move a part that moves the piston. from all I have read they are easier to use then hydraulic but not as powerful and you will still not get the modulation of hydraulic. but they would not be any better then mechanical on long deserts since there is no where for the heat to go.

 

[McCorby]

the calipers are hydraulic but they use a cable to move a part that moves the piston. from all I have read they are easier to use then hydraulic but not as powerful and you will still not get the modulation of hydraulic. but they would not be any better then mechanical on long deserts since there is no where for the heat to go.

 

[fooferdoggie]

not talking about fading. I am talking about toasting the fluid. the heat on a regular caliper can travel up the line. so the oil does not get ruined. that caliper an. that rotor will be toast. its only on for a few seconds. try for minutes and miles. I killed the fluid in our deport 4 piston on a 5 mile decent in gravel on our tandem. never got the discs that hot but the whole system got hot enough for the fluid to break down and they needed bled the next day.

 

[fooferdoggie]

Interesting you are probably experiencing massive brake drag to cause brake fluid to boil.

trying to keep a 425 pound bike at reasonable speeds. but any long breaking session on a bike makes a lot of heat.

 

[High Plains Rider]

I’m not a DIY guy to any great degree, but these last several posts and some of the tragic stories I’ve read about ebike accidents, I’m convinced that hydraulic brakes are the way to go. I’ve move them up towards the top of my priority list. If I buy a new bike or stay with my Rad Rover, I’ll change over to hydraulic brakes at my LBS. I’ve also move bike weight down on my priority list. The fact is, e-bikes are relatively heavy, so I’m buying a ramp for my rack. HarryS, I like you suggestion about keeping my Rad and buying a different bike, however this presents a new challenge…convincing my wife.

 

[ElevenAD]

I recently threw out a post “Still considering changing from Rad Rover (and Rad)” and got some good feedback. However, in my pursuit to find a lighter ebike (something under 50 lbs), I’ve come to realize that it’s all about trade offs. So I am now trying to figure out what my highest priorities are and in the process I have made some assumptions. Please let me know if these assumptions are correct.

1. I have no desire to exceed 20 mph, so there is no reason to consider a class 3 ebike.
2. A lighter ebike will need less torque as compared to a heavier bike like the Rad Rover, so a 500 watt motor could perform as well as a 750 watt motor because of less weight.
3. Hydraulic brakes are superior to disc brakes, however there will be increased maintenance.
4. Torque sensors are not always preferred. It’s like choosing your saddle, it personal preference.

My most important priority is COMFORT as I prefer a more upright riding position, followed by POWER. I still need power to climb hills and take on the wind in the midwest (I weight 230 lbs). BATTERY RANGE must go 45-50 miles, not sure what that means in watts. FRONT SUSPENSION as I do ride gravel about 20% of the time. LIGHTER WEIGHT mostly for transferring using my OneUp USA rack. HYDRAULIC BRAKES would be nice but not a deal breaker. TORQUE SENSORS if that’s my preference after a test ride. Of course PRICE is important, but I am willing to pay up if I see the value.

I welcome your feedback.

That weight is going to limit you but ill go ahead and recommend a Specialized Turbo Vado, its only 5lbs over your target weight and for sure checks the rest of your boxes.

 

[Avg_Joe]

1. I have no desire to exceed 20 mph, so there is no reason to consider a class 3 ebike.

I'd throw this criteria out the window as you're artificially limiting your options. If a Class 3 ebike meets all of your other criteria, you can still ride it under 20mph, why discount it?

2. A lighter ebike will need less torque as compared to a heavier bike like the Rad Rover, so a 500 watt motor could perform as well as a 750 watt motor because of less weight.

True. And a 250w motor can "perform" as well also. It's not the wattage, it is torque you should be looking at; how much you need; and how/when that torque is applied.

3. Hydraulic brakes are superior to disc brakes, however there will be increased maintenance.

Hydraulic brakes are disk brakes. As I have no experience with the mechanical or mechanically-actuated hydraulic brakes, I'll defer to others on added maintenance - all I can say is in 3 years of riding ebikes, I've replaced 2 individual brake pad sets.

4. Torque sensors are not always preferred. It’s like choosing your saddle, it personal preference.

Agreed.

 

[High Plains Rider]

That weight is going to limit you but ill go ahead and recommend a Specialized Turbo Vado, its only 5lbs over your target weight and for sure checks the rest of your boxes.
View attachment 164385

That would make my LBS guy happy as he sells Specialized. We have another LBS that recently opened and they sell Pedago. So that company is now on my list. I try to buy locally if I can, but sometimes the discount is just too great. After all, I think the LBS make more money on service than they do on sales.

 

[High Plains Rider]

1. I have no desire to exceed 20 mph, so there is no reason to consider a class 3 ebike.

I'd throw this criteria out the window as you're artificially limiting your options. If a Class 3 ebike meets all of your other criteria, you can still ride it under 20mph, why discount it?

2. A lighter ebike will need less torque as compared to a heavier bike like the Rad Rover, so a 500 watt motor could perform as well as a 750 watt motor because of less weight.

True. And a 250w motor can "perform" as well also. It's not the wattage, it is torque you should be looking at; how much you need; and how/when that torque is applied.

3. Hydraulic brakes are superior to disc brakes, however there will be increased maintenance.

Hydraulic brakes are disk brakes. As I have no experience with the mechanical or mechanically-actuated hydraulic brakes, I'll defer to others on added maintenance - all I can say is in 3 years of riding ebikes, I've replaced 2 individual brake pad sets.

4. Torque sensors are not always preferred. It’s like choosing your saddle, it personal preference.

Agreed.

I agree and you make an excellent point on #1.

 

[Catalyzt]

I agree and you make an excellent point on #1.

I now have a class III (sorta!) for the first time, and the differences are not what I expected.

I expected I would be able to easily blast along at 27 MPH, but because of the way my bike is set up, and where I ride, I have no idea if that's even possible. The roads are not great, so far, I've only exceeded 20 MPH at night, and I don't feel safe going above 22 or 23 MPH. (Though I just adjusted the recoil on the front shock, and whoa-- it's much better!)

What is nice: Being able to tool along at 22 MPH in a 35 MPH zone using only 60% of the effort it would take me to go 19 MPH on my class 1. 20% faster with 40% less effort makes a bigger difference than I thought.

 

[Jeff in VA]

I would suggest you rethink some of your assumptions. As others have said, you can buy a ramp for your bike rack, negating most of the need for a lighter bike. You want 50 - 60 miles with some hills in the mix. That requires a big ass battery. Hydraulic brakes should be a must have. I would not consider an e-bike without them. As far as performance goes, focus on torque rather than watts. When I was looking at bikes I was concerned about weight capacity (I'm about the same weight as you). you have to dig through a lot of info in some company websites to find their carrying capacity. You and a little gear can max out the load capacity of many bikes. In the end, I bought an Evelo Omega. It is a tiny bit over your price target and 5 pounds (without battery) over your weight target. It can carry 350 pounds, has a 4 year/20,000 mile warranty, Gates belt drive and Enviolo Automatiq internally geared hub (basically an automatic transmission). It does not have a front suspension, so I added a suspension stem. I've put 500 miles on it so far and love it.

 

[Taylor57]

I recently threw out a post “Still considering changing from Rad Rover (and Rad)” and got some good feedback. However, in my pursuit to find a lighter ebike (something under 50 lbs), I’ve come to realize that it’s all about trade offs. So I am now trying to figure out what my highest priorities are and in the process I have made some assumptions. Please let me know if these assumptions are correct.

1. I have no desire to exceed 20 mph, so there is no reason to consider a class 3 ebike.
2. A lighter ebike will need less torque as compared to a heavier bike like the Rad Rover, so a 500 watt motor could perform as well as a 750 watt motor because of less weight.
3. Hydraulic brakes are superior to disc brakes, however there will be increased maintenance.
4. Torque sensors are not always preferred. It’s like choosing your saddle, it personal preference.

My most important priority is COMFORT as I prefer a more upright riding position, followed by POWER. I still need power to climb hills and take on the wind in the midwest (I weight 230 lbs). BATTERY RANGE must go 45-50 miles, not sure what that means in watts. FRONT SUSPENSION as I do ride gravel about 20% of the time. LIGHTER WEIGHT mostly for transferring using my OneUp USA rack. HYDRAULIC BRAKES would be nice but not a deal breaker. TORQUE SENSORS if that’s my preference after a test ride. Of course PRICE is important, but I am willing to pay up if I see the value.

I welcome your feedback.

Do you want to pedal or do you want to ghost pedal? If you want to pedal get a TS bike and if you want to go fast and pretend to pedal get a CS bike. Sorry to reduce it to the ridiculous, but that just about sums it up...

 

[Kayakguy]

I agree and you make an excellent point on #1.

Don't some venues limit trail access to class I ? I realize you can ride a class 3 at 20 mph or less, but the regulations may be aimed at your potential for more speed, not your actual speed.