Archon X1 Programming Thread (questions and experiences)

[greeno]

Mr. hound success?

 

[Fast n' Furious]

WW just can't seem to catch a break. They took the initiative to bring the controller to the US, paid for UL licensing for the exclusive, and now along with all their other problems they have to deal with this nonsense. Maybe it's karma for overcharging for the controller, seems like everyone with their hand in the pot here from innotrace to WW to the software developer were just greedy fucks, so disappointing.

I'm sayin, Tom. Gives me the red-ass, watching dedicated, cutting-edge NA shops get stiffed - and WW still had the class not to name and blame the real problem, taking the heat and gritting their teeth - while customers screamed WHAT'S GOING ON ???
'Greedy f*ck's' want the ultimate, with no risks. Life's a series of disappointments because of expectations - not those we employ.
Discontent now, they were foolish at the outset. People that make bad judgements and fail are not sound advisors.
WW retrofitted (and sold me) $450.00 of Archer Shift set-up for $250.00 (legacy costs to them), and to foin a craze - A man not getting paid WILL not work (AKA: 'I coulda had a bosch 'er some s*it').
I'd certainly hope they make a profit somewhere, but doubt it was innotrace.
WW came in under cost on my build. The stated focus was getting me on the road, not CYA in cornering the market at anyone's expense.
Innotrace was/ is Black Forest; same two Eastern EU folks; same responsibilities accrued. Only people actually selling X1's in EU - excluding the rather weird Swiss Alps Touring pedi-cab thingie. Grandma must be having fits.
I mean really. 'Twig-crushing' power utterly outlawed, any high-volume-sales bikes are sloooo-mo only.
I feel for the 10 - 20 motor &/ or X1 system builders, frozen out that bought from WW - as an option, as (hopefully - knowing/ aware) NA customers.
On WW's finished bikes the X1's still the BEST; 30% efficiency boost from stock Bafang; etc.
Our problem's a guy that won't unlock his server.

 

[PwrMotors]

Hello Krasnodar, the X1 controller was exchanged for me at the beginning of the year. I guess I'll get one similar to Thepak. The controller is a bit weaker than the stock controller and also not with the 25kmh mode. I can't tell you anything about the software because I haven't had access to the X1 tool for months. What needs to be done now so that I can get the controller back with the current software / performance and 25kmh mode?

I suspect that in your case a wrong firmware was flashed.
As promised, I will help the Innotrace customers. The Wattwagons customers will have to contact Pushkar. I have already contacted him.
If you are an Innotrace customer, please contact me at [email protected]. We will find a solution together.

 

[Foxhound68]

I suspect that in your case a wrong firmware was flashed.
As promised, I will help the Innotrace customers. The Wattwagons customers will have to contact Pushkar. I have already contacted him.
If you are an Innotrace customer, please contact me at [email protected]. We will find a solution together.

When will you turn the server back on ?

 

[TPEHAK]

Great news! Krasnodar has fixed my motor and was able to set it up to 3000W! Now it feels significantly more powerful and on the throttle it almost lifts the front wheel! It was so powerful the battery BMS turned the battery down under hard acceleration. Finally when I know the motor works properly I can start building the new appropriate battery for this motor.

So, if you feel you were affected by the wrong firmware or underpowered settings Krasnodar should be able to figure out what is wrong.

He also said he is working on server and X1 tool for it so I guess the ones who want to adjust the settings should be able to do it soon.

 

[Foxhound68]

Great news! Krasnodar have fixed my motor and was able to set it up to 3000W! Now it feels significantly more powerful and on the throttle it almost lift the front wheel! It was so powerful the battery BMS turned the battery down under hard acceleration. Finally when I know the motor works properly I can start building the new appropriate battery for this motor.

So, if you feel you were affected by the wrong firmware or underpowered settings Krasnodar should be able to figure out what is wrong.

He also said he is working on server and X1 tool for it so I guess the ones who want to adjust the settings should be able to do it soon.

Good news I just wish he would give us a date !

 

[TPEHAK]

Krasnodar also got my engine running again. With the usual performance and the 25kmh mode.

Yeah, I was confused by this mode and was thinking there is something wrong and I tried to set the speed limit in the Innotrace X2 display advanced settings (which does not affect it) before he demonstrated how to disable this mode with the Innotrace X2 display (press buttons Down and Mode for 2 seconds after start after Innotrace logo twice in a row).

 

[Fast n' Furious]

Great news! Krasnodar have fixed my motor and was able to set it up to 3000W! Now it feels significantly more powerful and on the throttle it almost lift the front wheel! It was so powerful the battery BMS turned the battery down under hard acceleration. Finally when I know the motor works properly I can start building the new appropriate battery for this motor.

So, if you feel you were affected by the wrong firmware or underpowered settings Krasnodar should be able to figure out what is wrong.

He also said he is working on server and X1 tool for it so I guess the ones who want to adjust the settings should be able to do it soon.

Almost lifts the front wheel ???
Me/ bike weigh 202 - 206lbs, total. X1 2300watts max.
A Domino throttled prototype - I've tuned resistors for full range increasing progressively with twist distance.
No access to X1 2300watt (off-road - SP mode) programming, I'm flummoxed - cuz Eco's set for USA, CA Street-legal (1000watt, Class III - w/ alternative Class II throttle use), on lower voltage and 20mph Max on throttle/ no pedal input torque sensing.

In 'Sports Modes' the throttle simply turns on. Speed/ Power setting seems incorrect and pedal assist input is missing when using throttle. It's like a burly eco mode. The flaws are magnified.
If I could use my throttle correctly, as a potentiometer - not an off/ on switch - my drivetrain will save tons of wear; no more wheelies; etc.
Not sure if people commenting on this matter post screen-shots of Eco Mode settings.
Are Voltage and Speed/ Power settings available in the more powerful firmware ? Can I tune for 2300watts w/ this custom cord?
-
Recently I thought lets see what she'll do.
Not yet topped out and pulling like a freight train in SP level 3, I hit 54kph before slowing for traffic. This testing a 50t/ replacing a 46t ring.
SP modes: Throttle seems double the power, but still restricted to 20mph (32kph), etc.
For me, starting in Sports modes (any), on take-off the front wheel comes off the ground - pedal or throttle.
SP L1 - L3 it feels like about 8" of rise.
I'd thought the sensation was just the fork extending, until observers noted the wheel was off the pavement.
It's not like I prompted with a loaded a question either - like "How was that wheelie?" ... They asked me "does that bike always do wheelies like that?"
That was in Economy level 3.
In SP modes wheelies are a given. Haven't even tried SP Levels 4 and 5, so I probably never touched 2300watts.
3000watts sounds downright scary.
What drivetrain do you use to withstand that?

Fn'F

 

[Foxhound68]

Almost lifts the front wheel ???
Me/ bike weigh 202 - 206lbs, total. X1 2300watts max.
A Domino throttled prototype - I've tuned resistors for full range increasing progressively with twist distance.
No access to X1 2300watt (off-road - SP mode) programming, I'm flummoxed - cuz Eco's set for USA, CA Street-legal (1000watt, Class III - w/ alternative Class II throttle use), on lower voltage and 20mph Max on throttle/ no pedal input torque sensing.

In 'Sports Modes' the throttle simply turns on. Speed/ Power setting seems incorrect and pedal assist input is missing when using throttle. It's like a burly eco mode. The flaws are magnified.
If I could use my throttle correctly, as a potentiometer - not an off/ on switch - my drivetrain will save tons of wear; no more wheelies; etc.
Not sure if people commenting on this matter post screen-shots of Eco Mode settings.
Are Voltage and Speed/ Power settings available in the more powerful firmware ? Can I tune for 2300watts w/ this custom cord?
-
Recently I thought lets see what she'll do.
Not yet topped out and pulling like a freight train in SP level 3, I hit 54kph before slowing for traffic. This testing a 50t/ replacing a 46t ring.
SP modes: Throttle seems double the power, but still restricted to 20mph (32kph), etc.
For me, starting in Sports modes (any), on take-off the front wheel comes off the ground - pedal or throttle.
SP L1 - L3 it feels like about 8" of rise.
I'd thought the sensation was just the fork extending, until observers noted the wheel was off the pavement.
It's not like I prompted with a loaded a question either - like "How was that wheelie?" ... They asked me "does that bike always do wheelies like that?"
That was in Economy level 3.
In SP modes wheelies are a given. Haven't even tried SP Levels 4 and 5, so I probably never touched 2300watts.
3000watts sounds downright scary.
What drivetrain do you use to withstand that?

Fn'F

This is eco 2 and 3 from with X1 from Watt Wagon factory setting.

 

[TPEHAK]

Almost lifts the front wheel ???
Me/ bike weigh 202 - 206lbs, total. X1 2300watts max.
A Domino throttled prototype - I've tuned resistors for full range increasing progressively with twist distance.
No access to X1 2300watt (off-road - SP mode) programming, I'm flummoxed - cuz Eco's set for USA, CA Street-legal (1000watt, Class III - w/ alternative Class II throttle use), on lower voltage and 20mph Max on throttle/ no pedal input torque sensing.

In 'Sports Modes' the throttle simply turns on. Speed/ Power setting seems incorrect and pedal assist input is missing when using throttle. It's like a burly eco mode. The flaws are magnified.
If I could use my throttle correctly, as a potentiometer - not an off/ on switch - my drivetrain will save tons of wear; no more wheelies; etc.
Not sure if people commenting on this matter post screen-shots of Eco Mode settings.
Are Voltage and Speed/ Power settings available in the more powerful firmware ? Can I tune for 2300watts w/ this custom cord?
-
Recently I thought lets see what she'll do.
Not yet topped out and pulling like a freight train in SP level 3, I hit 54kph before slowing for traffic. This testing a 50t/ replacing a 46t ring.
SP modes: Throttle seems double the power, but still restricted to 20mph (32kph), etc.
For me, starting in Sports modes (any), on take-off the front wheel comes off the ground - pedal or throttle.
SP L1 - L3 it feels like about 8" of rise.
I'd thought the sensation was just the fork extending, until observers noted the wheel was off the pavement.
It's not like I prompted with a loaded a question either - like "How was that wheelie?" ... They asked me "does that bike always do wheelies like that?"
That was in Economy level 3.
In SP modes wheelies are a given. Haven't even tried SP Levels 4 and 5, so I probably never touched 2300watts.
3000watts sounds downright scary.
What drivetrain do you use to withstand that?

Fn'F

As I understand all the available settings are the same for any firmware as long as you use the same program to setup.

I use Kindernay XII gear hub. I use it with 44T Bafang steel chainring (the biggest one fits to my frame) and 14T SHIMANO CS-MX66 DX steel cog (the smallest one fits Kindernay gear hub). I use the biggest possible chainring and the smallest possible Cog to reduce the torque and stress on the gear hub (the most expensive part of the drivetrain). The chain is KMC X8 EPT, it may suffer from stiff links after some mileage at such big torque (squished chain links cylinders on some links jam the links walls) but after treating the stiff links it wears out over time and works OK after that initial period.

 

[Fast n' Furious]

This is eco 2 and 3 from with X1 from Watt Wagon factory setting.

That's helpful. So, firmware is stepping up the Current - while in an 'off/on switch' throttle mode and cutting off at 4.0v.
Do you have access to 'Throttle Mode (Speed or Power)' and 'Start Voltage', 'End Voltage' settings?
It's been reported Start Voltage is 1.0V and End is 4.0V.
I don't like to ask others, show me, show me when I can do it but I'm too timid to test this cable at the moment.
For that I apologize.
For my domino SP settings should be:

• Throttle Mode: Speed
• Start Voltage: 15 (=1.5V)
• End Voltage: 45 (=4.5V)

Our standard firmware could be different from yours, but our SP modes should be the same.

Thanks !

 

[Fast n' Furious]

As I understand all the available settings are the same for any firmware as long as you use the same program to setup.

I use Kindernay XII gear hub. I use it with 44T Bafang steel chainring (the biggest one fits to my frame) and 14T SHIMANO CS-MX66 DX steel cog (the smallest one fits Kindernay gear hub). I use the biggest possible chainring and the smallest possible Cog to reduce the torque and stress on the gear hub (the most expensive part of the drivetrain). The chain is KMC X8 EPT, it may suffer from stiff links after some mileage at such big torque (squished chain links cylinders on some links jam the links walls) but after treating the stiff links it wears out over time and works OK after that initial period.

A member posted a screenshot and they were not the same as FoxHound68's.
Since they have different regulations, USA/ Canada/ EU should have appropriately different firmware profiles.
Very Nice machine. I had planned a K-VII w/Gates drive. Didn't pan out, so it's Shimano 11SP. Installed a WolfTooth 50T w/ the 11 x 40 cassette and Archer X1 shifting.
Power coming on before chain is fully wrapped on cog is ugly. Programming a bit more delay in pedal input/ torque output onset would be right for me.

Thanks

 

[Foxhound68]

That's helpful. So, firmware is stepping up the Current - while in an 'off/on switch' throttle mode and cutting off at 4.0v.
Do you have access to 'Throttle Mode (Speed or Power)' and 'Start Voltage', 'End Voltage' settings?
It's been reported Start Voltage is 1.0V and End is 4.0V.
I don't like to ask others, show me, show me when I can do it but I'm too timid to test this cable at the moment.
For that I apologize.
For my domino SP settings should be:

• Throttle Mode: Speed
• Start Voltage: 15 (=1.5V)
• End Voltage: 45 (=4.5V)

Our standard firmware could be different from yours, but our SP modes should be the same.

Thanks !

Those settings visable are the only ones able to be edited without the master software. With the master account you can edit more.

 

[Foxhound68]

Someone is now posting on a Facebook group that apparently worked with Krasnador and Rico and is claiming a VESC app like the Luna Ludacris one is in the works

 

[TPEHAK]

You mean Krasnodar and Rico work on Vesc app for Innotrace X1 or that person works on such application?

 

[Foxhound68]

You mean Krasnodar and Rico work on Vesc app for Innotrace X1 or that person works on such application?

I'm not really sure , Rico and krasnador do not work together anymore and Rico is taking legal actions against krasnador from what I'm understanding

 

[rtp]

You mean Krasnodar and Rico work on Vesc app for Innotrace X1 or that person works on such application?

Not Krasnodar. The post from 'someone' was from whomever is remaining at Innotrace, and makes sense.
The biggest question is whether or not they will be paying Vedder (VESC founder/lead) to do the work for them, they will be picking it up in-house, and of course - timelines.
Depending on whose idea it was to charge 'subscriptions' to updates (which I haven't seen many, the Innotrace UI seems to not have exposed anything new over time/hasn't changed much from what I've seen), well - that model won't work any more as it will become open source. They would be able to charge for 'support' which some people may take them up on, but it's unlikely the 'server login' requirement would continue IMO.

They could probably of course, still upcharge for setting the bits for max power or something, or possibly lock some portion of settings with an encryption key, but hopefully it becomes 'properly open' like other VESC-based systems, and short of encryption of specific settings, the source code will be available which could unlock further options and improvements in the future.

This could potentially have a reasonably good (for owners) outcome, although of course, someone or greed could still get in the way, and timing is anyone's guess. It's possible new firmware might need to be flashed before a VESC option might work, which would be inconvenient, but not insurmountable.

 

[Fast n' Furious]

Those settings visable are the only ones able to be edited without the master software. With the master account you can edit more.

A member posted a screen shot of the Voltage Settings - set incorrectly for my purpose.
The 'Unicorn' icon. It was in a throttle thread - a bored Member had posted something like: "Should I use a throttle or not" as the title - to watch the chaos.
By "Master software", you mean the firmware ?
I think Frey has those settings available for the Ultra. They are fairly common.
-
At 38", the FEANTEEK's cord is pretty long.
Even that, noting the distance between the display to my LT, I anticipated needing an extension - where Yellow and Red are shorted and no need to fiddle with the dongle. Universal, it won't interfere with previously shorted types either.
Hope they're not needed, but I made sure I have a couple FEANTEEK's (one I modded - per instructions) and I thought I'd try this idea going forward.
I put a slit in the cord's insulation; Snipped the (in this case) Red and Brown leads, soldering the two outgoing (from the dongle) leads together. I have Red, Green and Black - so if other two vary in color I'm good.
The incoming wires (to the dongle) are snipped staggered; the area tightly wrapped with electrical tape then covered w/ 3x shrink fit.

Now the interchangeable extension's also a jumper cable, w/ no need to mod the dongle, 'short' possibilities eliminated.
I have 100cm (39in), w/ 5-pin M/F Julet plugs from these guys. Cost for 3 x cords was $15.00USD total.
'Scuse my flux on that rubber and solder joint. Ugly, but harmless and hidden. lol. Under magnification the insulation isn't burned. The wire's thicker copper than most types.
I'm waiting until 'June/ July' - failing, I hack by whatever means - but good to have my aux hardware kit in order.
This squabble is ruining so much. "I won I won" from a mound of ashes rings so damn hollow, but it's a great way to win - I guess.

Just a simple idea to share.

Fn'F

 

[Foxhound68]

A member posted a screen shot of the Voltage Settings - set incorrectly for my purpose.
The 'Unicorn' icon. It was in a throttle thread - a bored Member had posted something like: "Should I use a throttle or not" as the title - to watch the chaos.
By "Master software", you mean the firmware ?
I think Frey has those settings available for the Ultra. They are fairly common.
-
At 38", the FEANTEEK's cord is pretty long.
Even that, noting the distance between the display to my LT, I anticipated needing an extension - where Yellow and Red are shorted and no need to fiddle with the dongle. Universal, it won't interfere with previously shorted types either.
Hope they're not needed, but I made sure I have a couple FEANTEEK's (one I modded - per instructions) and I thought I'd try this idea going forward.
I put a slit in the cord's insulation; Snipped the (in this case) Red and Brown leads, soldering the two outgoing (from the dongle) leads together. I have Red, Green and Black - so if other two vary in color I'm good.
The incoming wires (to the dongle) are snipped staggered; the area tightly wrapped with electrical tape then covered w/ 3x shrink fit.

View attachment 152912 View attachment 152913 View attachment 152914
Now the interchangeable extension's also a jumper cable, w/ no need to mod the dongle, 'short' possibilities eliminated.
I have 100cm (39in), w/ 5-pin M/F Julet plugs from these guys. Cost for 3 x cords was $15.00USD total.
'Scuse my flux on that rubber and solder joint. Ugly, but harmless and hidden. lol. Under magnification the insulation isn't burned. The wire's thicker copper than most types.
I'm waiting until 'June/ July' - failing, I hack by whatever means - but good to have my aux hardware kit in order.
This squabble is ruining so much. "I won I won" from a mound of ashes rings so damn hollow, but it's a great way to win - I guess.

Just a simple idea to share.

Fn'F

For the X1 the master accounts have more settings available

This video from Watt wagons shows what extra tabs/settings they have available.

 

[dedo]

This all doesn't make sense. I don't quite get it. Why would some FW be "hacked" or "from unknown source" and the other not? How big was Innotrace even? Somebody told me recently that it was only Rico and Krasnodar, which can be looked up online:

I know that Rico was mainly for sales and managing orders. He also did aftersales-support a few times for me and answered questions.. He seemed always busy and behind shipping orders.. I highly doubt he was capable to develop his own "hacked" firmware without telling the co-CEO Krasnodar about it, who's responsible for the technical part in first place?! In fact, in a GmbH-company this would be illegal. From whom was this FW, if not from Krasnodar the "developer of Innotrace"?

The FWs about which Krasnodar states they are "illegal" or "from unknown source" do match with the versioning of past versions! Maybe the fuzzy serial- and controller-numbers from TPEHAK in #225 are from the not responding backend server, but why was their server pingable the whole time? I traced the HTTPS-calls and regularly pinged the server www.xembedded.de, since it has been seemingly hacked in January.

And why is Krasnodar avoiding answering the question, when he will enable the servers again? Or providing evidence against the elephant in the room: Whether he uses VESC or not?