Archon X1 Programming Thread (questions and experiences)

[GustyWinds]

I have the 1000w motor Hydra. Are there recommended changes to the stock x1 settings the bike is shipped with?

 

[Acme]

it’s all personal preference. Try it when it arrives.

 

[rtp]

I think Pushkar sets the controllers up for 10 levels right out of the box. 1-5 is for ECO mode and 6-10 is for the sport. Depending on the display your using like the 750C that I use only has 5 levels of PAS. So I had no need for eco/sport just one was fine for me. I ended up changing the Sensitivity and Motor Torque setting to 10 across levels 1-10.

Which according to prior comments would seem to:
1. make PAS 1-9 all the same
2. Entirely turn into purely an almost binary cadence-driven bike with no (or very limited) torque sensing? (if so - why?)

Coming from a fair amount of experience in the world of programmable car ECUs, an ideal future update would allow users to actually modify the ‘blend’ of torque vs cadence sensor input. It would be confusiing to some so perhaps an ‘advanced’ programming tab or other.

 

[Merle Nelson]

Which according to prior comments would seem to:
1. make PAS 1-9 all the same
2. Entirely turn into purely an almost binary cadence-driven bike with no (or very limited) torque sensing? (if so - why?)

Coming from a fair amount of experience in the world of programmable car ECUs, an ideal future update would allow users to actually modify the ‘blend’ of torque vs cadence sensor input. It would be confusiing to some so perhaps an ‘advanced’ programming tab or other.

I don't think you have to wait for the future, just order the self programming options for one or two hundred extra.

Not sure where it was posted......oh, maybe on youtube videos of X1 controller. Graph of just what you describe by % cadence vs torque assist added.

 

[kwseattle]

So... going to start playing around with the controller settings while it rains for the rest of the week. Where do I get the Innotrace software?

 

[TDA78]

You'll need to get a registration email address from WW. You'll get a download link at that time. They're currently looking into why it's taken Innotrace over a week to activate my account.

I'm the meantime, you can watch the tutorial video.

 

[kwseattle]

You'll need to get a registration email address from WW. You'll get a download link at that time. They're currently looking into why it's taken Innotrace over a week to activate my account.

I'm the meantime, you can watch the tutorial video.

Gotcha, I'll send over an email to @pushkar tomorrow.

 

[BarnBoy]

Per request from @scrambler, please see Chapter 9 in my Hydra adventures for a recipe for programming. I think @bexamous is coming to the same conclusions…
-BB
See chapter 9….
Post in thread 'BarnBoy's Hydra Adventures...'
https://electricbikereview.com/forums/threads/barnboys-hydra-adventures.46276/post-486837

 

[Deacon Blues]

@kwseattle, I've registered and I'm now waiting for the conformation from WW.

 

[bexamous]

Registration processes took longer than expected for me. It seems like to me, you're getting an Innotrace from WattWagons, a nicer process would be for WattWagons to send you registration email ASAP, before they even ship out the bike. You don't need bike to install X1Tool and go through registration, long as you have the email from WattWagons. It'd be nice if everything worked when you got your bike. If WW can improve registration process some other way, great, but I'd have been happy enough simply having registration email sent to me sooner.

As far as messing with settings, couple general ideas:

sensitive-torque: "Sensitivity of the torque sensor. The higher the value, the less force I need when pedaling to get the set maximum power."

This configures how PAS works. Think of it like current mode is limited to 750w, how hard to you want to have to pedal to get 750w? While range is 1-10, IMO 5-10 is totally pointless. IMO sensitive-torque=1 you need to be standing on pedals riding hard to get 100% of the power, sensitive-torque=2 you can stay seated, sensitive-torque=3 you're not straining yourself at all, sensitive-torque=4 you're basically doing nothing. So why exactly would you need 5-10? Like you're already doing so little in at 4.

In theory I could imagine that I weight like 220lbs so I can geneate torque more easily than someone who weighted 110lbs. But with sensitive-torque=4 I'm doing so little, I can't imagine it actually varies much person-to-person. Aan experiment may be go into an assist level limited to ~500 watts and with sensitive-torque=4 see how easy it is to get bafang display to show motor outputting 500watts. I think that should prove to you how silly >=5 is.

motor torque: "Torque when starting"

IMO this is a really important setting and kind not exactly clear WTF it actually does. It feels like a burst mode to me, sorta. Way to feel it on bike, just slow down to 0-1mph and then start pedaling. With high motor-torque bike feels like it gives you an extra shove, where as with low motor-torque it just gives you the normal amount of help. WattWagons maxes motor-torque out in all modes by default. IMO this makes sense for a commuter bike, is practical to get that extra shove to start moving. But for a MTB, in lower modes, where ideally it feels like you're riding an analog bike the motor is so seemlessly helping you, this setting ruins things. Its not subtle at all, is a super unnatural shove. I highly recommend lowering this setting in lower modes. IMO it makes bike sooo much better.

Low torque (aka power) eco1 with sensative-torque=1 bike you can trick yourself into thinking your riding an alalog bike it feels so seemless. In higher torque modes (aka high power) or modes where sensitive-torque is high, maybe in those modes its safe to raise up motor-torque a little/lot as there is no suspension of disbelief to maintained in these modes, haha. I've not experimented enough with higher torque modes to know really how to set it there. All I know in low modes I want motor-torque to be very low.


Anyways so current settings I'm using, only spent an hour messing to end up on these so not anything special:

mode, torque, sensativity-torque, motor-torque
eco1, 15%, level1, level1
eco2, 25%, level1, level1
eco3, 31%, level1, level2
eco4, 100%, level2, level4
eco5, 100%, level3, level10

sport1, 6%, level2, level3
sport2, 12%, level2, level3
sport3, 24%, level2, level3
sport4, 48%, level3, level6
sport5, 100%, level4, level10

I don't have levels 1-10 nicely spaced out, I have two sets of levels 1-5. I rode these around the block a few times and then today up some trails. I'm actually pretty happy with eco1-5. I can ride just using those and bike always felt great. I could maybe see setting sensative-torque=4 in eco5, I was sorta killing myself trying to do a climb in eco2/eco3 and then climb got worse and no way was I going to be able to do it, totally gassed I just put bike into eco5 and was able to fairly effortless get to top. But if that final steep section wasn't so short, if it kept going I could see maybe having eco5 even more of a 'okay i give up please take me to the top' mode by setting sensative-torque=4 being handy.

Sport1-5 as I have set I don't like as much.. I think they're going to be for a different style of riding.. but I'm not sure what that style is exactly. I'm kinda just going to wait I find a time where I dislike my eco1-5 and maybe then use sport1-5 for that.

Also fact I got to set of settings I like, least for eco1-5, so quickly suggests that fine tuning isn't exactly needed? I generally love tweaking things, but sorta don't see point already.

 

[BarnBoy]

@bexamous - I believe the Motor Torque setting relates more with ones cadence. With the same setting I was not able to climb a hill spinning slow (<40rpm), but the next day was able to climb the same hill spinning at approx 90RPM….

so yes, in a sense there is a bit of a start advantage with the motor torque setting. I have been experimenting with a mix of the two settings and liking the results. As of moment my favorite mix is Torque 2 and Motor 3 and then space the power as a percentage (mode 1 is 10% power, mode 2 is 20%, etc…)

I am now looking at changing the power and modes to be a bit more exponential so I can work in the lower power areas and save more battery. With the linear power, I use Mode 1&2 and only hit Mode 4 (40%) to capture roadies to/from park and home. Sport or >50% is only used to drain battery!!
-BB

 

[bexamous]

I believe the Motor Torque setting relates more with ones cadence.

Yeah, it could. Comparing two modes that differed only in motor-torque I easily noticed difference when strating from low speeds, but that wasn't only time I noticed it. It wasn't clear to me what it was actually doing. I was thinking it was sorta going off the change in pedal-torque, to give extra boost when changing speed.. or really I guess change in cadence maybe, I dunno. It wasn't immediately obvious what was going on.

Later I then saw manual's full description of setting is literally just 'Torque when starting' and I thought it was intended to mainly help starting from a stop. But even if that is the case, depending on how its implemented that might not be the only time it applies. And yeah like cadence is changing when starting.. so it could be going off cadence.

One day when VESC-based controllers take off this sort of thing will be much easier to understand, will be able to look at source and know exactly what settings are doing.

 

[bexamous]

Initially when messing with x1 tool I sorta just skipped over settings max speed for any level. I thought max speed would be for Europe market or for whoever is trying to follow letter of the law, why else would you want controller to limit speed? Well maybe I was too quick to dismiss the setting. I tried to experiment with it today by setting a max speed on different levels to 12, 14, 16, 18mph. It seems to add an interesting twist.

Eg on level ground I usually want a super low power level1. Part of riding bike is to get exercise, I want to do work, but if I ride harder motor keeps giving me lots of assist.. I end up >20mph. While I do work I'm also kinda wasting battery. Typically my solution is to have a super low power level1 and flip to it when this situation happens. But today.. I used like 250watts with 18mph limit. Soon as you start getting near 18mph power starts dropping off.. I can then ride as hard as I want and zero battery is wasted. But if I'm riding into wind or up slight hill or for whatever reason can't keep up soon as I start to fall under 18mph motor starts to ramp up to help me keep it. In practice it acts more like a minimum speed than maximum.

Or I had 750 watts and 12mph mode for trails... on level ground or when decending hitting 12mph is really easy and assist goes away and I'm riding analog bike. Approaching little uphills maybe I pedal a little harder to get a little extra speed to get up hill and long as I stay over 12mph its an analog bike and motor stays off. But if hill is bigger such that I can't maintain 12mph soon as my speed drops below motor ramps up to help me maintain 12mph up hill... Again more of a minimum speed I want to keep than maximum.

I dunno I literally only experimented with this on one ride today. I'm not sure exactly how best to use it. But I generally found with speed limits I ended up manually switching between levels less frequently. Instead of switching to lower levels the speed limit often replaces the need to.

 

[kwseattle]

Spent a few days tweaking my programming settings. I've been taking my bike on trails through the woods where I wanted a very low power assist for climbing up uneven trails in low gear, plus I wanted it to be quieter as not to anger any non-powered mountain bikers lol. I also wanted to add class 2 and class 3 limits in Eco.

I've come up with a map with a very usable range of assist levels, here are the settings:

Eco 1:

• 6% torque, 3A (~140 watts)
• Throttle 20% (10A) (~500 watts)
• Sensitivity: level 1
• Max speed: 32 km/h (~20 mph, class 2 limit)
• Notes:
  • Useless on the road, but excellent on trail for quiet climbing with a gentle assist, still feels like you're doing most of the work but reduces the perception that you're riding a heavy e-bike.

Eco 2:

• 10% torque, 5A (~250 watts)
• Throttle 20% (10A) (~500 watts)
• Sensitivity: level 2
• Max speed: 32 km/h (~20 mph, class 2 limit)
• Notes:
  • Still not very useful on the road, good on trail for steeper climbs with a little more assist.

Eco 3:

• 20% torque, 10A (~500 watts)
• Throttle 30% (15A) (~750 watts)
• Sensitivity: level 3
• Max speed: 32 km/h (~20 mph, class 2 limit)
• Notes:
  • Useful on the road for cruising at 20 mph with a good amount of pedal input.

Eco 4:

• 30% torque, 15A (~750 watts, legal limit, all classes)
• Throttle 30% (15A) (~750 watts)
• Sensitivity: level 4
• Max speed: 45 km/h (~28 mph, class 3 limit)
• Notes:
  • Good for cruising on the road above 20 mph with less pedal effort required. Good for climbing small hills on road.

Eco 5:

• 30% torque, 15A (~750 watts, legal limit, all classes)
• Throttle 30% (15A) (~750 watts)
• Sensitivity: level 5
• Max speed: 45 km/h (~28 mph, class 3 limit)
• Notes:
  • Similar to Eco 4, better for climbing steep hills but not as good as the next levels.

Sport 1:

• 40% torque, 20A (~1000 watts)
• Throttle 40% (20A) (~1000 watts)
• Sensitivity: level 1
• Max speed: unlimited
• Notes:
  • This is where it starts getting fun, good for climbing steeper hills with a decent amount of pedal effort. Good for cruising fast.

Sport 2:

• 50% torque, 25A (~1250 watts)
• Throttle 40% (20A) (~1000 watts)
• Sensitivity: level 2
• Max speed: unlimited
• Notes:
  • Better for climbing steep hills with less pedal effort. Good for cruising fast.

Sport 3:

• 60% torque, 30A (~1500 watts)
• Throttle 40% (20A) (~1000 watts)
• Sensitivity: level 3
• Max speed: unlimited
• Notes:
  • Probably reaching the limit of usable power for on the road, cruising fast and climbing very steep hills with little effort.

Sport 4:

• 80% torque, 40A (~2000 watts)
• Throttle 50% (25A) (~1250 watts)
• Sensitivity: level 4
• Max speed: unlimited
• Notes:
  • Starting to reach absurd levels of power, less useful for every day riding but fun every once in awhile.

Sport 5:

• 100% torque, 50A (~2300 watts)
• Throttle 50% (25A) (~1250 watts)
• Sensitivity: level 5
• Max speed: unlimited
• Notes:
  • MAX POWER! Good for showing off to your friends and draining your battery quickly while traveling at unsafe speeds

I've uploaded a zip with the x1c file for anyone who is interested! FYI you have to connect to your controller before using the "Load" button on the X1 tool or there will be an error.

 

[bexamous]

I feel like torque sensor on my motor must not be calibrated correctly, or something. I run with sensitivity 0 on every level and only wish I could go lower, lol. 1 isn't bad but 2-ish is already starting to be ghost pedaling effort needed to get level's full output.

 

[rcm_rx7]

My torque sensor is off somewhat as well, mine doesn't seem to provide a smooth level of assist even when I keep applying torque. Then it seems like it needs even more torque to activate the assist again. I didn't order with the programming cable and registration, but I'm really curious what settings it comes with and how much I can really change it.

I'm really leaning towards ordering the programming kit now.

 

[Merle Nelson]

Spent a few days tweaking my programming settings. I've been taking my bike on trails through the woods where I wanted a very low power assist for climbing up uneven trails in low gear, plus I wanted it to be quieter as not to anger any non-powered mountain bikers lol. I also wanted to add class 2 and class 3 limits in Eco.

I've come up with a map with a very usable range of assist levels, here are the settings:

Eco 1:

• 6% torque, 3A (~140 watts)
• Throttle 20% (10A) (~500 watts)
• Sensitivity: level 1
• Max speed: 32 km/h (~20 mph, class 2 limit)
• Notes:
  • Useless on the road, but excellent on trail for quiet climbing with a gentle assist, still feels like you're doing most of the work but reduces the perception that you're riding a heavy e-bike.

Eco 2:

• 10% torque, 5A (~250 watts)
• Throttle 20% (10A) (~500 watts)
• Sensitivity: level 2
• Max speed: 32 km/h (~20 mph, class 2 limit)
• Notes:
  • Still not very useful on the road, good on trail for steeper climbs with a little more assist.

Eco 3:

• 20% torque, 10A (~500 watts)
• Throttle 30% (15A) (~750 watts)
• Sensitivity: level 3
• Max speed: 32 km/h (~20 mph, class 2 limit)
• Notes:
  • Useful on the road for cruising at 20 mph with a good amount of pedal input.

Eco 4:

• 30% torque, 15A (~750 watts, legal limit, all classes)
• Throttle 30% (15A) (~750 watts)
• Sensitivity: level 4
• Max speed: 45 km/h (~28 mph, class 3 limit)
• Notes:
  • Good for cruising on the road above 20 mph with less pedal effort required. Good for climbing small hills on road.

Eco 5:

• 30% torque, 15A (~750 watts, legal limit, all classes)
• Throttle 30% (15A) (~750 watts)
• Sensitivity: level 5
• Max speed: 45 km/h (~28 mph, class 3 limit)
• Notes:
  • Similar to Eco 4, better for climbing steep hills but not as good as the next levels.

Sport 1:

• 40% torque, 20A (~1000 watts)
• Throttle 40% (20A) (~1000 watts)
• Sensitivity: level 1
• Max speed: unlimited
• Notes:
  • This is where it starts getting fun, good for climbing steeper hills with a decent amount of pedal effort. Good for cruising fast.

Sport 2:

• 50% torque, 25A (~1250 watts)
• Throttle 40% (20A) (~1000 watts)
• Sensitivity: level 2
• Max speed: unlimited
• Notes:
  • Better for climbing steep hills with less pedal effort. Good for cruising fast.

Sport 3:

• 60% torque, 30A (~1500 watts)
• Throttle 40% (20A) (~1000 watts)
• Sensitivity: level 3
• Max speed: unlimited
• Notes:
  • Probably reaching the limit of usable power for on the road, cruising fast and climbing very steep hills with little effort.

Sport 4:

• 80% torque, 40A (~2000 watts)
• Throttle 50% (25A) (~1250 watts)
• Sensitivity: level 4
• Max speed: unlimited
• Notes:
  • Starting to reach absurd levels of power, less useful for every day riding but fun every once in awhile.

Sport 5:

• 100% torque, 50A (~2300 watts)
• Throttle 50% (25A) (~1250 watts)
• Sensitivity: level 5
• Max speed: unlimited
• Notes:
  • MAX POWER! Good for showing off to your friends and draining your battery quickly while traveling at unsafe speeds

I've uploaded a zip with the x1c file for anyone who is interested! FYI you have to connect to your controller before using the "Load" button on the X1 tool or there will be an error.

Sounds like both usable and fun settings. Awesome of you to share it.

 

[Merle Nelson]

I'm really leaning towards ordering the programming kit now.

Probably nearly a must to enjoy both the potential of the Hydra and the flexibility available.

 

[Csubi]

Spent a few days tweaking my programming settings. I've been taking my bike on trails through the woods where I wanted a very low power assist for climbing up uneven trails in low gear, plus I wanted it to be quieter as not to anger any non-powered mountain bikers lol. I also wanted to add class 2 and class 3 limits in Eco.

I've come up with a map with a very usable range of assist levels, here are the settings:

Eco 1:

• 6% torque, 3A (~140 watts)
• Throttle 20% (10A) (~500 watts)
• Sensitivity: level 1
• Max speed: 32 km/h (~20 mph, class 2 limit)
• Notes:
  • Useless on the road, but excellent on trail for quiet climbing with a gentle assist, still feels like you're doing most of the work but reduces the perception that you're riding a heavy e-bike.

Eco 2:

• 10% torque, 5A (~250 watts)
• Throttle 20% (10A) (~500 watts)
• Sensitivity: level 2
• Max speed: 32 km/h (~20 mph, class 2 limit)
• Notes:
  • Still not very useful on the road, good on trail for steeper climbs with a little more assist.

Eco 3:

• 20% torque, 10A (~500 watts)
• Throttle 30% (15A) (~750 watts)
• Sensitivity: level 3
• Max speed: 32 km/h (~20 mph, class 2 limit)
• Notes:
  • Useful on the road for cruising at 20 mph with a good amount of pedal input.

Eco 4:

• 30% torque, 15A (~750 watts, legal limit, all classes)
• Throttle 30% (15A) (~750 watts)
• Sensitivity: level 4
• Max speed: 45 km/h (~28 mph, class 3 limit)
• Notes:
  • Good for cruising on the road above 20 mph with less pedal effort required. Good for climbing small hills on road.

Eco 5:

• 30% torque, 15A (~750 watts, legal limit, all classes)
• Throttle 30% (15A) (~750 watts)
• Sensitivity: level 5
• Max speed: 45 km/h (~28 mph, class 3 limit)
• Notes:
  • Similar to Eco 4, better for climbing steep hills but not as good as the next levels.

Sport 1:

• 40% torque, 20A (~1000 watts)
• Throttle 40% (20A) (~1000 watts)
• Sensitivity: level 1
• Max speed: unlimited
• Notes:
  • This is where it starts getting fun, good for climbing steeper hills with a decent amount of pedal effort. Good for cruising fast.

Sport 2:

• 50% torque, 25A (~1250 watts)
• Throttle 40% (20A) (~1000 watts)
• Sensitivity: level 2
• Max speed: unlimited
• Notes:
  • Better for climbing steep hills with less pedal effort. Good for cruising fast.

Sport 3:

• 60% torque, 30A (~1500 watts)
• Throttle 40% (20A) (~1000 watts)
• Sensitivity: level 3
• Max speed: unlimited
• Notes:
  • Probably reaching the limit of usable power for on the road, cruising fast and climbing very steep hills with little effort.

Sport 4:

• 80% torque, 40A (~2000 watts)
• Throttle 50% (25A) (~1250 watts)
• Sensitivity: level 4
• Max speed: unlimited
• Notes:
  • Starting to reach absurd levels of power, less useful for every day riding but fun every once in awhile.

Sport 5:

• 100% torque, 50A (~2300 watts)
• Throttle 50% (25A) (~1250 watts)
• Sensitivity: level 5
• Max speed: unlimited
• Notes:
  • MAX POWER! Good for showing off to your friends and draining your battery quickly while traveling at unsafe speeds

I've uploaded a zip with the x1c file for anyone who is interested! FYI you have to connect to your controller before using the "Load" button on the X1 tool or there will be an error.

Awesome! Do you recall what the original settings were? Just to compare.... (Still waiting for my bike)

 

[kwseattle]

Awesome! Do you recall what the original settings were? Just to compare.... (Still waiting for my bike)

I'm sure they've changed it since my bike was built, but mine came programmed from the factory with every assist level set to 100% torque and speed unlimited, where the only thing that changed was the torque sensitivity (1 for eco 1 through 10 for sport 5). It felt WAY too powerful in Eco 1 and I only really used Eco 1-3 regularly, anything more than that was ridiculous for every day riding. I still want to adjust the torque sensitivity a little bit in some of the higher power modes, above sensitivity 3 it becomes a little too sensitive I think.

My torque sensor is off somewhat as well, mine doesn't seem to provide a smooth level of assist even when I keep applying torque. Then it seems like it needs even more torque to activate the assist again. I didn't order with the programming cable and registration, but I'm really curious what settings it comes with and how much I can really change it.

I'm really leaning towards ordering the programming kit now.

See my reply to Csubi! You'd probably benefit greatly from the programming cable!

This is what the settings page looks like. From the factory like I mentioned, everything was maxed on all assist levels except for "sensitivity torque" and the throttle which was set to 20A if I recall correctly.