Any interest in a Bosch based Ultimate Commuter Pro ?

[TForan]

You hit the nail on the head - at Watt Wagons we haev chosen standard quality components that are easily end-user replaceable / serviceable even after warranty expires. Specifically for batteries, any good current 52V pack with 30A continuous will work.

That being said, Bosch has also done a good job of supporting their systems for a long time. Bosch's battery specs appears to be fairly consistent acrtoss generations, and are easy to source / buy through dealers. Bafang similarly has also consistently supported their products - some of them over 8-9 years. I think dostbikes is actually using a bbs02, which is nearly 8 years old but is still supported, and parts are still available. Yes, their support for spare parts is less than stellar, but i hope it changes over the coming years. They just got funded, so there is money to grow up and have a better / more robust post sales international support model.

You picked the right motor. There really isn't anything like it. Mine is smooth, powerful and quiet. I would love to take your bike for a ride.

 

[pushkar]

You picked the right motor. There really isn't anything like it. Mine is smooth, powerful and quiet. I would love to take your bike for a ride.

Ha. Based on some feedback looks like I need to update the settings. Any help is appreciated.
Of course if you are in the Boston area, feel free to ping me. I have a few of the Crosstours ready to ship. We can take a ride !

 

[dblhelix]

You hit the nail on the head - at Watt Wagons we haev chosen standard quality components that are easily end-user replaceable / serviceable even after warranty expires. Specifically for batteries, any good current 52V pack with 30A continuous will work.

That being said, Bosch has also done a good job of supporting their systems for a long time. Bosch's battery specs appears to be fairly consistent acrtoss generations, and are easy to source / buy through dealers. Bafang similarly has also consistently supported their products - some of them over 8-9 years. I think dostbikes is actually using a bbs02, which is nearly 8 years old but is still supported, and parts are still available. Yes, their support for spare parts is less than stellar, but i hope it changes over the coming years. They just got funded, so there is money to grow up and have a better / more robust post sales international support model.

I also received an email recently to confirm that I should expect a Bosch Gen2 overhaul (bearings, mostly) kit to be available at the end of my warranty period — a dealer-level confirmation of an announcement made last year by Bosch. If the overhaul cost is reasonable, this qualifies as long-term support.

Regarding the torque-sensing Bafang motor you currently offer, do you see it as a relatively static product, development-wise, or do you think Bafang will release firmware/motor mods to address some of the current complaints like too much power in PAS 1? If a more refined Ultra is in the offing, is it worth it to add Bosch as an additional option? What is your case for adding another Bosch bike to the high-end commuter space as compared to Trek, R&M, etc? Make your pitch!

 

[TForan]

Ha. Based on some feedback looks like I need to update the settings. Any help is appreciated.
Of course if you are in the Boston area, feel free to ping me. I have a few of the Crosstours ready to ship. We can take a ride !

I'm in Traverse City Mi, which is a huge bike community. I think you could do real well with proper exposure.

 

[Explorer-1]

Bafang is going to be coming out with some really high quality and smooth running motors. They've now got significant investment money, tons of sales worldwide as a base revenue stream that just keeps growing from both hub and mid drive models, and will be giving every other mid drive manufacturer very stiff competition. And I suspect it will be in a rather short time period that some serious market share will be grabbed by Bafang. Being able to avoid hugely marked up batteries, and proprietary battery designs, will be a big advantage for those ebike OEMs choosing Bafang. Bosch has been notorious for years in many divisions of making so much proprietary and not at all serviceable by a lot of different people, will very likely cap their growth in this market. Society has moved to open platforms in many technology applications. The last thing I want is for a motor maker to hold me hostage on paying $1000 for a fairly small capacity battery that I could otherwise buy for half that and still get Samsung or Panasonic, very high quality BMS, and cells from two of the best names in the business.

Right. It's not just the motor the various lock-ins and inflated prices for generic components is only going to be sustainable for so long. Just like they were forced to develop their Gen 4 motors I suspect they will soon have to start designing for more than just Euro specs, and I will laugh if they finally cave and offer throttle support. The technology is still changing pretty fast and they and everyone else will have to keep moving fast for a while. Exciting to see where e-bikes are headed though, as well as EUCs, Scooters, and other PEVs.

 

[elect]

Hey everyone

I was wondering if anyone might be interested in a Bosch based UC Pro ? Standard Ti, Gen 4, with all options, Dual powerpack (500whx2) ? Just curious.

Why dont go with the 625Wh? Because they are inside the frame? Too long?

Also, how would be the two batteries used? R&M alternate 5m (or similar) each normally

 

[pushkar]

Why dont go with the 625Wh? Because they are inside the frame? Too long?

Also, how would be the two batteries used? R&M alternate 5m (or similar) each normally

Hard to do inside frame with titanium.
dual power packs might work. For Dual, Bosch has the setup already so no need to engineer a solution.

 

[webcurl]

I suspect they will soon have to start designing for more than just Euro specs, and I will laugh if they finally cave and offer throttle support.

If they do that, i'll laugh if they advertise it like:
"The Bosch eBike system #2 consists of a 2/3 hp engine with 637 & 1/4 pound force inch torque, with 3/4 throttle and two 1 & 4/5 trillion Joule batteries"
Slight dig

 

[webcurl]

Wonder how this one is going:

Revonte - Revonte

revonte.com

 

[pushkar]

Wonder how this one is going:

Revonte - Revonte

revonte.com

2022 right now. They presented in Taichung. Still a ways away. They are where Flyon was 6-7 years ago. Very promising but still in testing mode.

Now only if Tesla can miniaturize their motor.

 

[ak907]

Wonder how this one is going:

Revonte - Revonte

revonte.com

Looks awesome if it can be made.

 

[opimax]

how about a Watt tour that is not titanium? I love the idea of the all the quality parts for reliability, I am not sure I need/want the flashiness. I am looking for the most stealth I can get with the power and reliability I expect. i think titanium is your image so maybe not....just my thought

 

[pushkar]

how about a Watt tour that is not titanium? I love the idea of the all the quality parts for reliability, I am not sure I need/want the flashiness. I am looking for the most stealth I can get with the power and reliability I expect. i think titanium is your image so maybe not....just my thought

Example of "stealth"? (other than obvious integrated battery)

 

[Edrummer]

Example of "stealth"? (other than obvious integrated battery)

I could care less about stealth. Range, reliability, and ease to source spare parts/batteries are my only concerns. I think Wattwagons is already there.

 

[opimax]

less shiny? When the battery is in the frame , adjust the rest so the battery bulge does not stand out , enlarge other tubes. Use more of frame to hold the battery since it was enlarged. Leave a couple of brake lines exposed hide the electronics . Bikes have brakes and gears after all.

 

[Johnny]

2022 right now. They presented in Taichung. Still a ways away. They are where Flyon was 6-7 years ago. Very promising but still in testing mode.

Now only if Tesla can miniaturize their motor.

Imo this is the way to go, motor and gearbox next to each other in the bottom. I think the only reason we don't see these for ebikes is the question mark on the demand.

 

[Johnny]

how about a Watt tour that is not titanium? I love the idea of the all the quality parts for reliability, I am not sure I need/want the flashiness. I am looking for the most stealth I can get with the power and reliability I expect. i think titanium is your image so maybe not....just my thought

I think there are offerings as you said. Pushkar's offering stands out with the beautiful titanium frame. Unfortunately with titanium I don't know how much better a battery can be integrated to the frame.

I also agree with Pushkar that the front tube integration , while nice, is not very stealthy. The only stealthy bikes I have seen are the ones like Creo which are built for another purpose anyways.

It would have been nice if the cables were routed inside the tubes but again I don't know if that is possible with titanium frames.

How about a semi hard plastic cover that goes on the front tube to contain cabling?

 

[pushkar]

Imo this is the way to go, motor and gearbox next to each other in the bottom. I think the only reason we don't see these for ebikes is the question mark on the demand.

Also a lot of reliability issues need to be worked out. My understanding based on what I have seen so far is that the integrated setup works well at lower power (250/300W). Components and design need to be beefed up for higher (continuous) power rating. Most motors can be overbuilt so that should not be an issue.


Exciting stuff for sure!

 

[pushkar]

How about a semi hard plastic cover that goes on the front tube to contain cabling?

I am working on it. There is some progress on it.. hopefully will have that by the summer.

 

[AdilDesai]

My two cents (and I acknowledge that I'm in research phase and don't have an e-bike yet):

• A Bosch option is appealing. But so is Shimano and Brose. I honestly loved the feel of the Brose when testing the Specialized Como 5.
• I'm not a throttle guy. If I wanted a motorcycle, I'd buy one. Natural pedal feel is important.
• Stability and smoothness over speed.
• But speed is fun, I just want to be safe and keep up with city traffic.