Any interest in a Bosch based Ultimate Commuter Pro ?
- Thread starter pushkar
- Start date
At best maybe...internal battery? Bosch branded battery? (Bad!) Electric Rohloff? UC pro weighs more than most other Bosch equipped unit , maybe slower? One of the main reasons UC is still on my list is the power, if it is the same as others then I can get local support by purchasing a Trek Alant or something. About the only positive i can think of is rough edges of Bafang , smoother power delivery trade off of total power
What other features or positives are there ? This is from my perspective... Trying to be helpful
What other features or positives are there ? This is from my perspective... Trying to be helpful
pushkar
Well-Known Member
Yes, electric shifting for rohloff, Bosch battery packs (frame mounted, not internal) don’t work well), everything else, the works (Latest display, apps, etc, everything Bosch supports).
Also thanks for bringing this up - I'm not moving to Bosch. This will be in addition to the current offerings. Just wanted to clarify that.
Also thanks for bringing this up - I'm not moving to Bosch. This will be in addition to the current offerings. Just wanted to clarify that.
pushkar
Well-Known Member
Ok.but I want to go faster then my Stromer not slower and I would guess for more money too? Here is my official no....”No”
which one would you expect higher reliability
in terms of reliability, both motors have been thoroughly tested over long distances. The power in Bafang is the key differentiator.
JRA
Well-Known Member
Why not go with the Bafang M600? It has better power potential and can be used with the same type battery system you currently spec. While Bosch is certainly a good system it is also very prevalent in the market which would mean your end MSRP would have to be very competitive.
TomD
Well-Known Member
Why not the M600 could be summed up in one of my favorite X1 videos: 
But even if you can live with the noise, the M600 can't be programmed and there is no app support like you can get with eggrider on the Ultra. Cost savings? Weight savings? That's all it really has going for it vs. the Ultra and I'm not sure the M600 would be compelling enough to anyone not wanting the Ultra.
But even if you can live with the noise, the M600 can't be programmed and there is no app support like you can get with eggrider on the Ultra. Cost savings? Weight savings? That's all it really has going for it vs. the Ultra and I'm not sure the M600 would be compelling enough to anyone not wanting the Ultra.
smorgasbord
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
The reason to move away from Bafang is to have a more natural, smoother pedaling experience. My bike has the Luna-tuned Bafang Ultra motor, and even PAS 1 is too powerful sometimes. The R&M bikes I test rode had a much better torque sensor and/or program. With the Ultra, I always feel like the bike is being powered. With the Bosch (and I've heard, Specialized and Brose and Shimano), I simply felt stronger. The multiplier effect is more seamless. The Bosch display (depending on which one you get) can show range remaining and there's a version that connects to a smartphone. Read the forum here and while there's complaints about Bosch's display software, as far as I can tell it's more functional than Bafang's.
With the new 2020 Gen 4 motors, Bosch no longer penalizes you for pedaling faster than the speed cutoff. Since Watt Wagons are commute bikes, you'll want the Speed version, both for top speed (28 mph) and to have a torque curve that matches an on-road experience.
However, what will your bikes offer that Riese & Muller don't? The SuperDelight, for instance, is a full-suspension Bosch eBike, available with electronic Rohloff, Magura brakes, rear rack (on a full suspension bike!), and dual batteries for at least 1KWh. With titanium, you can make a lighter bike. Maybe you'll stick with a hard tail design to save costs, but R&M has one of those, too.
EDIT: If you could get your hands on the TQ motor in its fully blown form (see the M1 Spitzing, for instance), that would be really great.
With the new 2020 Gen 4 motors, Bosch no longer penalizes you for pedaling faster than the speed cutoff. Since Watt Wagons are commute bikes, you'll want the Speed version, both for top speed (28 mph) and to have a torque curve that matches an on-road experience.
However, what will your bikes offer that Riese & Muller don't? The SuperDelight, for instance, is a full-suspension Bosch eBike, available with electronic Rohloff, Magura brakes, rear rack (on a full suspension bike!), and dual batteries for at least 1KWh. With titanium, you can make a lighter bike. Maybe you'll stick with a hard tail design to save costs, but R&M has one of those, too.
EDIT: If you could get your hands on the TQ motor in its fully blown form (see the M1 Spitzing, for instance), that would be really great.
Last edited:
I would be interested and I think some of the other brand's customers may also be interested. Imo a titanium frame adds a lot to the bike and at prices >6k I would prefer your offering over the aluminum ones given that it costs same or less.
Electronic shifting and decreasing the weight by 5-8 pounds is also desirable.
However somewhat limited power and proprietary battery makes me feel somewhat uneasy. If I could I would probably pick Brose.
Back to the subject, I think adding a Bosch offering will also help your brand.
Electronic shifting and decreasing the weight by 5-8 pounds is also desirable.
However somewhat limited power and proprietary battery makes me feel somewhat uneasy. If I could I would probably pick Brose.
Back to the subject, I think adding a Bosch offering will also help your brand.
Alaskan
Well-Known Member
Having the Bosch option would move the needle for me from attractive to compelling.
For me everything about the watt wagon is very appealing with the sole exception of the motor.
After 13,000 miles in two years on bikes with Bosch CX and Bosch HS motors, I trust them.
As intriguing as higher power, greater speed, quieter or less resistance after reaching limits in other motors may be, nothing I have heard about any other motor overcomes that basic confidence in the durability, consistent behavior and natural feel of a Bosch.
For me everything about the watt wagon is very appealing with the sole exception of the motor.
After 13,000 miles in two years on bikes with Bosch CX and Bosch HS motors, I trust them.
As intriguing as higher power, greater speed, quieter or less resistance after reaching limits in other motors may be, nothing I have heard about any other motor overcomes that basic confidence in the durability, consistent behavior and natural feel of a Bosch.
fooferdoggie
Well-Known Member
because you don't need that power weight and huge battery? I know I don't.
I would think the weight saving is a minor for an ebike...battery is larger but not huge, cost less too I bet, doesn’t say Bosch...that said everybody has different needs and uses. I want 100 mile + range and 32 mph, lots of open space, Bosch won’t do that.
please let me decide what I need and I will do the same for you
Vincent, the unlocked 1000 watt loses the throttle....
please let me decide what I need and I will do the same for you
Vincent, the unlocked 1000 watt loses the throttle....
fooferdoggie
Well-Known Member
till you have to mopve the bike round. plus it sucks battery juice and it is harder on the bike and you need more braking power. your more likly to get the range on a Bosch then on a cheap Chinese motor that has never been dialed in to be energy efficient.
vincent
Well-Known Member
Interesting about the 1000 unlocked motor, how weird
Agree about weight savings, the lighter the better for me but will take the weight over losing the throttle and the power
And I am hoping someone will get the programming or controller worked on out the bafang so it is better
Agree about weight savings, the lighter the better for me but will take the weight over losing the throttle and the power
And I am hoping someone will get the programming or controller worked on out the bafang so it is better
I would be surprised if it is 5 lbs total , still a heavy bike if I am correct. In my case any bike over 20lbs is a problem for me to move with my back. I understand transporting or depending on living arrangements weight becomes more of an issue (steps mainly). I am able to ignore these due to some choices I have made and concerned about riding only. Garage no steps, close to trails no transport, bought low step van for transport when I do with ramp if needed.
I don’t know the answer for the following question please take a guess
2 batteries on each bike , Bosch has 1000 Bafang has 1760 total,
How fast and how far on each scenario. Mostly flat , some rolling hills
Bosch on full power, how far and avg speedier is able to maintain ...Bafang at same avg speed,what distance?
Both at 20mph?
Humorously and goes to my point
Bafang at say at 34 and Bosch is ...late for dinner after 3 batteries of use (I will be purchasing 2 additional batteries for a total of 3) since it is 6 to 8 mph slower.
Lastly a couple of companies have modified the Bafang 10 to 15 % increase in efficiency.if the Watt wagon gets this it will likely be available for retrofit.
We are different people and want different things , this post Is very self centered
I don’t know the answer for the following question please take a guess
2 batteries on each bike , Bosch has 1000 Bafang has 1760 total,
How fast and how far on each scenario. Mostly flat , some rolling hills
Bosch on full power, how far and avg speedier is able to maintain ...Bafang at same avg speed,what distance?
Both at 20mph?
Humorously and goes to my point
Bafang at say at 34 and Bosch is ...late for dinner after 3 batteries of use (I will be purchasing 2 additional batteries for a total of 3) since it is 6 to 8 mph slower.
Lastly a couple of companies have modified the Bafang 10 to 15 % increase in efficiency.if the Watt wagon gets this it will likely be available for retrofit.
We are different people and want different things , this post Is very self centered
fooferdoggie
Well-Known Member
I ride around 20 to 22 mph on my commute though my average is about 17 because of all the stops. but I get about 24 miles at full power with a 500 watt battery and the speed motor. about 300 feet of climbing.
Similar threads
