Any info on 2023 Models , 4.0/5.0 Vado's &SL 's ?

[JustRiding]

Really wondering what Specialized will do about the motor. The X20 from Mahle seems to be lighter and with the new sensor potentially as responsive as the Specialized/Mahle 1.1. mid motor. Torque wise, Mahle even claims the real impact of the X20 to be higher as it is rear wheel based. Will Specialized move to the X20 too ? The Creo SL now seems much less attractive when you get can get cheaper bikes with 3-4 kg less of weight and slimmer chassis that the rear mounted X20 system permits.

 

[BioWheel]

Really wondering what Specialized will do about the motor. The X20 from Mahle seems to be lighter and with the new sensor potentially as responsive as the Specialized/Mahle 1.1. mid motor. Torque wise, Mahle even claims the real impact of the X20 to be higher as it is rear wheel based. Will Specialized move to the X20 too ? The Creo SL now seems much less attractive when you get can get cheaper bikes with 3-4 kg less of weight and slimmer chassis that the rear mounted X20 system permits.

'Seems to be lighter' - 'Mahle even claims'

 

[Stefan Mikes]

The X20 from Mahle seems to be lighter and with the new sensor potentially as responsive as the Specialized/Mahle 1.1. mid motor. Torque wise, Mahle even claims the real impact of the X20 to be higher as it is rear wheel based.

The reports of X20 users are that they cannot notice any benefit of the torque sensor (as if it were a PAS only motor).

 

[jodi2]

Really wondering what Specialized will do about the motor. The X20 from Mahle seems to be lighter and with the new sensor potentially as responsive as the Specialized/Mahle 1.1. mid motor. Torque wise, Mahle even claims the real impact of the X20 to be higher as it is rear wheel based. Will Specialized move to the X20 too ? The Creo SL now seems much less attractive when you get can get cheaper bikes with 3-4 kg less of weight and slimmer chassis that the rear mounted X20 system permits.

3-4kg lighter, so the X20 motor + 320Wh battery weighs around one pound? I would take two!
Don't believe in marketing speech with closed eyes and think about it first. The Creo is possible with 12kg, if you take out Futurshock and go to 250Wh it:s 11-11,5kg. What (standard) ebike weighs 7-8kg?

And apart from that, try a tour with 1000-2000 height meters with a small hub motor like the X20. Or only one strong uphill with 300m and 15% and 10-12km/h like with an eMTB. A small hub motor will overheat and turn off after only 1/3 off it.

 

[JustRiding]

The reports of X20 users are that they cannot notice any benefit of the torque sensor (as if it were a PAS only motor).

That's interesting. Where did you hear about this? Couldn't find any forum post that reported this issue. Instead I just read this in an Italian forum (Google translated):

I was able to briefly test the new X20 unit at Eurobike on a Scott addict. Even if I am not an expert on these types of engines, I can make a comparison with the X35 of my wife's bike, a Binachi. Both in terms of thrust (torque) and in terms of progressiveness and naturalness of delivery, I found it significantly improved and almost more similar to a central engine than one to the hub. One of the features I don't like about the X35 is the static of the thrust which is always constant regardless of the watts pushed on the pedals. In addition, the on / off effect is very audible when you stop pedaling and then resume it. The X20 seemed far better to me, more dynamic and connected to the rider's pedaling and velvety in the restarts. It made a very good impression on me.

 

[JustRiding]

3-4kg lighter, so the X20 motor + 320Wh battery weighs around one pound? I would take two!
Don't believe in marketing speech with closed eyes and think about it first. The Creo is possible with 12kg, if you take out Futurshock and go to 250Wh it:s 11-11,5kg. What (standard) ebike weighs 7-8kg?

And apart from that, try a tour with 1000-2000 height meters with a small hub motor like the X20. Or only one strong uphill with 300m and 15% and 10-12km/h like with an eMTB. A small hub motor will overheat and turn off after only 1/3 off it.

It's the total weight of the bike for the same price point. E.g. a Creo SL Expert weights around 13 KG and costs almost 9000 Euro while the Scott Addict Eride 20 or 30 weight less than KG and cost 2-3000 Euro less and in constrast to the Creo, their engine is only really visible when you look down on the bike. Also heard that the wheel based motors are less noisy. Unfortunately no bike shop here in Copenhagen has either of the two to try and thus I will likely order the Scott abroad and sell my Vado SL (still trying to make up my mind before pushing the button to buy the new bike...)

 

[seabirdman]

Specialized have already raised their prices .
I told them the 2022 Turbo Vado SL 5.0 EQ in Brushed Aluminum , Medium @ $4750 is Sold Out on line .
They sent me a link to that specific model that is in stock @ $5250 .

Will the 2023 be even higher ?!

There are two vers of Vado 5.0 SL. The more expensive has SRAM components. My LBS sold me that one for the price of the one outfitted with Shimano. I see no other diffs unless you do. I heard shimano had supply change issues and SRAM stepped up resulting in price bump.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

That's interesting. Where did you hear about this? Couldn't find any forum post that reported this issue.

There are decidedly too many threads and posts in these Forums. If I see that report again, I will certainly quote it for you.

Specialized would be crazy to replace a unique lightweight mid-drive motor (that they are the exclusive owner of) with a hub-drive motor they do not own. Especially as the X20 comes with a smaller battery?

 

[Nonlinear]

I purchased my Vado 5.0 IGH in May and of course it was a 2022 model. Just purchased a Vado 5.0 IGH Step Through for my wife last week and it is a 2023 model. Price were the same $5500 USD. Everything is identical with the exception of the Envilio Hub. 2023 appears to be a new variant. Both have the same hub interface as the part number matches, but the actual hubs do have different part numbers and the markings on the outside of the hub.

How can you tell what model year the bike is? I purchased a Vado 5.0 about a month ago, but the model year isn't listed in any of the manuals nor on the receipt from the LBS. Can I figure out the model year from the serial number or something? (I did try googling about how to do that, but didn't find any answers.)

 

[Stefan Mikes]

How can you tell what model year the bike is? I purchased a Vado 5.0 about a month ago, but the model year isn't listed in any of the manuals nor on the receipt from the LBS. Can I figure out the model year from the serial number or something? (I did try googling about how to do that, but didn't find any answers.)

If you take a careful look on your e-bike, you might find a little label with the Mfg. Date. It even might be found under the top tube!

 

[Nonlinear]

If you take a careful look on your e-bike, you might find a little label with the Mfg. Date. It even might be found under the top tube!

Thanks, I'll try that!

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Thanks, I'll try that!

OTH, an e-bike manufactured in 2021 could be MY2022...

 

[Nonlinear]

OTH, an e-bike manufactured in 2021 could be MY2022...

Mine must be either a 22 or 23, since it is the new frame style.

 

[JustRiding]

There are decidedly too many threads and posts in these Forums. If I see that report again, I will certainly quote it for you.

Specialized would be crazy to replace a unique lightweight mid-drive motor (that they are the exclusive owner of) with a hub-drive motor they do not own. Especially as the X20 comes with a smaller battery?

Yes, the battery is smaller and I am curious on how much that will reduce my miles coverage when getting the new Scott Addict Eride compared to my current Vado SL. However battery is also a weight tradeoff. When the distance is not that large and you can recharge at arrival, then going for a smaller battery with less weight is probably better than going for a larger one with more weight. Maybe I'll purchase also the extender at one point (which on my Vado I rarely use as main battery for most trips turns out to be sufficient).

I like the idea of a more "stealth" kind of e-bike by having the motor in the rear tire but surely it has it drawbacks over a middle motor. I watched a couple of middle versus hub motor comparisons yesterday on Youtube. In the end I'll see. The other thread by a new owner of the Scott Addict Eride makes me think/ hope I did the right move to ditch my Vado SL for this Scott bike with Mahle X20 and not going for the even more expensive and heavier Creo SL with the same middle motor that I have on my Vado.
In any case it will be different going from a commuter bike to a racing bike with klick pedals, thin wheels and without a rack for storage - especially because I use my bike for both (ratio is 70% on fitness/endurance training and 30% on commuting). Guess the click pedals and the many more gears will take most time for me to adjust to.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

The other thread by a new owner of the Scott Addict Eride makes me think/ hope I did the right move to ditch my Vado SL for this Scott bike with Mahle X20 and not going for the even more expensive and heavier Creo SL with the same middle motor that I have on my Vado.

I have seen that thread. I would demo ride both e-bikes before making a very expensive mistake
The other guy bought a Scott but never had a chance to ride a Creo.

 

[jodi2]

It's the total weight of the bike for the same price point. E.g. a Creo SL Expert weights around 13 KG and costs almost 9000 Euro while the Scott Addict Eride 20 or 30 weight less than KG and cost 2-3000 Euro less and in constrast to the Creo, their engine is only really visible when you look down on the bike. Also heard that the wheel based motors are less noisy. Unfortunately no bike shop here in Copenhagen has either of the two to try and thus I will likely order the Scott abroad and sell my Vado SL (still trying to make up my mind before pushing the button to buy the new bike...)

Specialized has become a very expensive brand, but do we need to discuss this in this thread? I thought you wanted to discuss the technical part here. If you feel better with other brands/models, go for it.
But I think you need to ride/test more ebikes with different motor types and for a longer period to make your own experiences and to judge the differences. At the moment you are comparing apples with pears.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I will likely order the Scott abroad

Cannot wait until the thing breaks and you will need the repair and warranty handling

 

[JustRiding]

But I think you need to ride/test more ebikes with different motor types and for a longer period to make your own experiences and to judge the differences. At the moment you are comparing apples with pears.

Would indeed be ideal but finding a store where they have several models of those lighter weight ebikes is at least in Denmark virtually impossible. Went yesterday to the "countries biggest showroom" where they state they have 5000 bikes on display (doubt that, was more like 400) and the only lightweight ebike they had was the Vado SL. No Creo SL, no other brand in the weight category below those approx 17 kgs . And when checking availability online, the situation is not much better elsewhere in Europe, especially when looking for the newer models. Already a Vado 5.0 is rare here - most shop tend to limit their inventory to less expensive bikes for cash flow reasons. It seems to be easier though to find the "big boys" like e.g. the Vado with the stronger motor and battery (and weight).
Is this a niche, riding lighter e-bikes?

 

[JustRiding]

Cannot wait until the thing breaks and you will need the repair and warranty handling

That's not very kind of you - especially when considering that I would have liked to buy this one in a local store but it is virtually impossible. Btw this was the reason I bought the Vado 4.0 two years ago although I wanted the 5.0 with suspension - they simply hadn't the 5.0, nor had any other store it in the main capital.

 

[Rás Cnoic]

I think the ebikemotion X20, the Fazua 60 and even the Orbea tweaked Shimano EP8 (RS) are all evolutions rather than revolutions in motor design, they all look good and it's an exciting time for lightweight e bike motors for sure. But the TQ HPR50 does appear to be a truly radical departure. Unfortunately it's only on the pretty expensive Trek emtb at the moment and I'm guessing Trek will keep hold of it having developed it with TQ, like Spesh with the Mahle SL1.1, but it will be fascinating to see what road bikes & gravel bikes come out in the coming year given its tiny size, low weight, 50Nm of torque and above all near silent running. It appears to tick every box of what you'd want from the next generation of light weight e bike motors. And at what point do we get a Spesh/Mahle SL 1.2 motor?! Re the X20 it does look an improvement over the X35 and with Mahle owning ebikemotion and doing the SL1.1 with Specialized they certainly have their hands full with lightweight e bike motors. Though I question companies like that; why have two lightweight motor systems? It's like Porsche buying a large stake in Fazua but also saying they are developing their own e bikes but not necessarily with Fazua. Not keeping eggs in one basket I suppose.