Any info on 2023 Models , 4.0/5.0 Vado's &SL 's ?

[Stefan Mikes]

e-boy: you cannot compare a hub-drive motor by Mahle with a Specialized mid-drive made exclusively for Spec by Mahle. Not saying anything on the software quality.

Trek is in the state of utter confusion. Remember e-Caliber? An overpriced XC e-bike with a motor that is believed to be a lemon.

Specialized has a unified system of two motors, intentionally limited number of battery options and unified software. The company should be crazy to downgrade what they have, especially as no competitor got onto the level of SL 1.1, and no competitor can buy this motor.

 

[Rás Cnoic]

e-boy: you cannot compare a hub-drive motor by Mahle with a Specialized mid-drive made exclusively for Spec by Mahle. Not saying anything on the software quality.

Trek is in the state of utter confusion. Remember e-Caliber? An overpriced XC e-bike with a motor that is believed to be a lemon.

Specialized has a unified system of two motors, intentionally limited number of battery options and unified software. The company should be crazy to downgrade what they have, especially as no competitor got onto the level of SL 1.1, and no competitor can buy this motor.

I wouldn’t say Trek is in a state of utter confusion. This is just how they do business. Always have done. They are huge and move slowly, cautiously, they missed the alloy revolution in the mid 90s that set Cannondale to becoming a huge company and in panic bought Klein - beautiful alloy bikes those kleins. They bought out Gary Fisher & got him to run their mtb department to compete with Specialized, Marin & Kona. They bought Bontrager, LeMond etc etc. They don’t innovate so much as they buy their way into the new trends & to get rid of competition. I imagine with Bosch being the market leader a couple of years ago they felt secure in their ebike presence. Didn’t see the SL revolution coming looks like. So have tried Fazua (very surprised they didn’t continue with the new Fazua 60 motor, wonder what happened there?) and now TQ.

But like with Gary Fisher or Klein, the move to TQ looks like it could well be another winner. That Fuel ex e is getting huge positive press.

 

[jodi2]

And I wouldn't judge other motors to bad. Fazua is a strong and good rival, even more with the new Ride 60. Shimana EP8 with a small&light battery also and a big one.
Also the SL noise is not "state of the art" and every year less. Even if I or others can live with it, it scares off quite some possible customers. The next SL generation needs to be more silent to grab a good piece of cake of the future market for Specialized.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Also the SL noise is not "state of the art" and every year less.

Have you ever compared the SL motor noise to the freewheel noise?

If the motor noise were the deciding factor, Bosch E-Bike would be out of the market right now.

 

[e-boy]

e-boy: you cannot compare a hub-drive motor by Mahle with a Specialized mid-drive made exclusively for Spec by Mahle. Not saying anything on the software quality.

Trek is in the state of utter confusion. Remember e-Caliber? An overpriced XC e-bike with a motor that is believed to be a lemon.

Specialized has a unified system of two motors, intentionally limited number of battery options and unified software. The company should be crazy to downgrade what they have, especially as no competitor got onto the level of SL 1.1, and no competitor can buy this motor.

I'm not the one comparing ; it was Rás Cnoic .
I simply posted those links .

 

[Seasider]

Here in Japan, the 2022 Vado 4.0 SL has just got a price cut by about $350. Maybe 5.0 too but I don’t remember the msrp on that. Bummer as I got mine at the end of April.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I wouldn’t say Trek is in a state of utter confusion. This is just how they do business. Always have done. They are huge and move slowly, cautiously, they missed the alloy revolution in the mid 90s that set Cannondale to becoming a huge company and in panic bought Klein - beautiful alloy bikes those kleins. They bought out Gary Fisher & got him to run their mtb department to compete with Specialized, Marin & Kona. They bought Bontrager, LeMond etc etc. They don’t innovate so much as they buy their way into the new trends & to get rid of competition. I imagine with Bosch being the market leader a couple of years ago they felt secure in their ebike presence. Didn’t see the SL revolution coming looks like. So have tried Fazua (very surprised they didn’t continue with the new Fazua 60 motor, wonder what happened there?) and now TQ.

But like with Gary Fisher or Klein, the move to TQ looks like it could well be another winner. That Fuel ex e is getting huge positive press.

Isn't it funny to see the e-Caliber, an XC e-bike with unproven Fazua motor for £12,000? A 360 Wh Fuel EXe for £13,000+? (And the TQ motor had not been proven yet). The DualSport+ and FX+ with Hydra rear-hub motor and a smallish battery at a price at which Orbea eats them for breakfast with Kemen and Urrun? With competing mature Specialized e-MTBs at far lower price?

Who Trek think they are? The Trek? I cannot stop thinking of companies that once used to be big such as PAN AM or Enron until they lost their sense of direction...

 

[Rás Cnoic]

Agreed about Trek prices. But the prices in general completely floor me. I often watch emtb reviews on youtube where they casually chat about bikes costing 9, 10 or 12K. I think it's mad. With rising inflation, fuel and cost of living etc how long will the buyers fork out that kind of money? And emtbs are pure luxury at that level, its not like you are buying a car replacement cargo bike or commuter bike.

 

[Catch]

Agreed about Trek prices. But the prices in general completely floor me. I often watch emtb reviews on youtube where they casually chat about bikes costing 9, 10 or 12K. I think it's mad. With rising inflation, fuel and cost of living etc how long will the buyers fork out that kind of money? And emtbs are pure luxury at that level, its not like you are buying a car replacement cargo bike or commuter bike.

It's always been ppl with enough money to buy whatever they want and the difference between poor and rich is increasing

 

[Rás Cnoic]

Saw an interesting report a couple of years back in the UK that said membership of golf clubs was falling while middle aged men taking up road cycling or mtb was increasing. I'm guessing if you are in the bracket that can afford golf club membership and buying the clubs and snazzy clothes then an emtb or carbon fibre road bike at $£5 to 10k+ wouldn't faze you. And yes for sure if I won the lottery of course I'd go a bit mad trying out a few top end machines! Which of us wouldn't! In the meantime its a fun game seeing what the big names come out with next.

 

[BioWheel]

It's always been ppl with enough money to buy whatever they want and the difference between poor and rich is increasing

True - I think a $10k USD bike is crazy price but I have the money and I'm seriously thinking about buying a top-of-the-line Kenevo SL. Just waiting to see what the '23 models do to the '22 prices. Probably not much.

 

[e-boy]

I just bought the Turbo Vado 5.0 in Red online .

 

[Stefan Mikes]

in Red

The fasterest colour!

 

[Stefan Mikes]

True - I think a $10k USD bike is crazy price but I have the money and I'm seriously thinking about buying a top-of-the-line Kenevo SL. Just waiting to see what the '23 models do to the '22 prices. Probably not much.

Are you seriously interested in Enduro mountain biking Karl? Because Kenevo (even SL) is a big e-bike, the best suited for downhill rides including reasonable jumps.

 

[BioWheel]

Are you seriously interested in Enduro mountain biking Karl? Because Kenevo (even SL) is a big e-bike, the best suited for downhill rides including reasonable jumps.

I am. I'd like to get an E-MTB to go with my SL. It's really the only type riding where the SL is limited. I'm not saying the SL can't do any MTB'ing but I'm talking the serious, off-road trails that can be tough without suspension. I'm not a downhill rider and looking for lightest MTB that's quality build but not overpowered. I thought the Kenovo SL would be that bike.

 

[mschwett]

I am. I'd like to get an E-MTB to go with my SL. It's really the only type riding where the SL is limited. I'm not saying the SL can't do any MTB'ing but I'm talking the serious, off-road trails that can be tough without suspension. I'm not a downhill rider and looking for lightest MTB that's quality build but not overpowered. I thought the Kenovo SL would be that bike.

sounds like the Levo SL would be a better choice! really nice machines.

 

[Rás Cnoic]

If they are available for you locally & price works you should look at the Orbea Rise as well. Have great reviews. That new Trek Fuel EX e is worth keeping an eye on, though pricey I believe. Both newer then the Kenevo. All three great bikes by the sound of it.

 

[BioWheel]

sounds like the Levo SL would be a better choice! really nice machines.

Considering both. You can tell I don't know much about the type of MTB's. I've got an old Cannondale hard tail with headshock so any new MTB - elec or not - will be an awesome experience. And I have to say mschwett - my SL in the woods in turbo mode, going up really steep embankments, makes me think eMTB all the way. It feels like Superman on technical stuff.

 

[BioWheel]

If they are available for you locally & price works you should look at the Orbea Rise as well. Have great reviews. That new Trek Fuel EX e is worth keeping an eye on, though pricey I believe. Both newer then the Kenevo. All three great bikes by the sound of it.

Ras - have been looking at other brands. Ane the Orbea is sweet. I'm just leaning Specy given my great experience with the SL and the LBS that sold it to me. Waiting for '23 models really. And funny thing - I don't want a new MTB to take any time away from my SL riding. That's how much I love it. See - I've got great problems to work out.

 

[KirkTx]

I purchased my Vado 5.0 IGH in May and of course it was a 2022 model. Just purchased a Vado 5.0 IGH Step Through for my wife last week and it is a 2023 model. Price were the same $5500 USD. Everything is identical with the exception of the Envilio Hub. 2023 appears to be a new variant. Both have the same hub interface as the part number matches, but the actual hubs do have different part numbers and the markings on the outside of the hub.