Any idea when Bosch PowerTube 500 wh replacement batteries can be ordered in USA?

BikeMike

Active Member
Hi,

My dealer told me Bosch PowerTube 500 (vertical version) is not currently available in the USA.

This german website says: "Due to legal restrictions this product can't be send to your chosen delivery country".

  1. Do you know when I can be sure they will be stocked in the USA?
  2. Do you know how to display the exact battery percentage, rather than bars, on a Bosch display?
    1. The dealer told me that the Nyon, which does show exact battery percentage, is also not available for sale in the USA.
  3. Any idea how I can get the Nyon functionality that allows you to configure the battery for different modes?
    1. I plan to attach a Burley trailer to the bike to haul cargo. I want to ability to configure the power level for a particular mode, because the combined weight will be over 300 pounds.


I am considering this 2019 bike, which should arrive in a few weeks. I want a backup up battery, because I cannot afford to be without the bike for a long period of time.

https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/...-hardtail/powerfly-5/p/23180/?colorCode=black

This is what i am up to.

Another blog

Mike
 
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I like Trek's approach to leave the electronic system entirely to their vendors. The temptation for a bike company (e.g., Specialized) is to provide larger batteries to differentiate their bike. Packing the cells too close together can cause the battery pack to overheat. Obviously, the motor will shut down when the battery overheats.
 
I like Trek's approach to leave the electronic system entirely to their vendors. The temptation for a bike company (e.g., Specialized) is to provide larger batteries to differentiate their bike. Packing the cells too close together can cause the battery pack to overheat. Obviously, the motor will shut down when the battery overheats.
A lot of the packs I see are built like bricks. The battery block on my tad pole trike is a fine example. Do all of those overheat? I’ve got almost 700 miles, no issues so far.
 
A lot of the packs I see are built like bricks. The battery block on my tad pole trike is a fine example. Do all of those overheat? I’ve got almost 700 miles, no issues so far.

Battery Potting is a very sensitive, error prone, expensive and complicated process. A big concern to the computer industry. I have read many articles about Browse motor vendor batteries overheating.

It is not the general cases where batteries overheat, it is the unexpected circumstances. Hard to test all possibilities.

Can you get a readout of the battery temperature?
 
https://www.bike-eu.com/home/nieuws...8.2057391945.1533174268-1670149538.1533174268

Will Rising E-Bike Sales Be Faced with Battery Supply Shortages?
ASCHAFFENBURG, Germany – The TerraE battery cell facility in Europe is established as there is currently a strategic gap in supply. That gap widens as demand is exploding – not only due to the automotive industry switching to electric cars and buses. Other applications such as energy storage systems are on the rise because of the transition to green energy.
Where the exploding demand for battery cells in particular leads to in view of the rising e-bike sales was outlined in a global market analysis by CEO Sven Bauer of BMZ GmbH, Europe biggest battery maker, at the recently held Battery Experts Forum.
Demand for e-bike batteries to rise by 30%
Currently the world’s e-bike sector takes up about 10% of all battery cells produced. Taking into account that fact that Bosch recently said that it expects the e-bike market to have tripled by 2020, the demand for cells used in e-bike batteries will rise to 30%. Looking at the current market situation and taking into account the significance of the bicycle industry compared to that of the automotive sector, Bauer predicts a scenario of, “main suppliers of battery cells not being able to meet the demand. The smaller customers like e-bike manufacturers will be faced with shortages or even a stop of supplies.”
However, the CEO of battery maker BMZ also presented the solution to such a nightmare situation. How that solution looks like will follow in this report. First, the current and future situation of the worldwide battery market; according to analysis by Sven Bauer.
Current and future technology
That current situation shows for instance a Tesla car that needs close to 8,000 battery cells, or an electric public bus that has a battery system incorporating a whopping 35,000 cells! By comparison, an e-bike battery has about 40 – 60 cells. In series and parallel-connected cells make up a complete battery including all that comes with it such as the Battery Management System (BMS).
Almost all of these cells are currently 18650 types (18mm diameter and 65 mm long) and look like the commonly used penlight batteries. Cell production is slowly switching to 21700 ones as the bigger size is bringing a bigger capacity. With that capacity the lifetime of an e-bike battery is extended from the current average of roughly 500 charging cycles up to 1,500 to 2,000 cycles.
According to Bauer the round 21700 cells with their nominal capacity of 5.2Ah are the way to go for the near future. He said, “It will be the new standard. Of the major cell makers Sony and Panasonic start producing them next September and Samsung by April 2018.”
However, the BMZ CEO also explained that while Tesla is convinced of the superior 21700 cell qualities the German car industry isn’t, as BMW is opting for prismatic Lithion-Ion batteries.
Near future batteries offering 2,000Wh
Next to 21700 Lithion-Ion battery cells the BMZ CEO doesn’t see any other technology taking over from the current Lithium-Ion technology. Apart from Li-NMC (Nickel Manganese Cobalt) that is. He predicted at the Battery Experts Forum that this is the battery technology for the near future.
“NMC is the battery of choice for power tools, e-bikes and other electric powertrains. It will be possible to reach over 2,000Wh and with that it will be possible to produce more tailored batteries like for instance for e-bikes that need an annual recharging of only some 50 cycles.”
Production concentrated in Asia
Currently the world has 4 major cell makers; Sony, Panasonic, Samsung and LG. Next to them there are about a dozen smaller makers like Lishen, Maxell, or ATN while Apple i-phone producer Foxconn is looking to step in. All these producers are located in Asia; in Japan, Korea, and China.
The four biggest makers handle 80% of the market. According to the BMZ CEO, annual cell production currently stands at 5.4 billion. This production total is expected to quadruple in the next ten years. But even then the question remains; will there be enough supply? And next to that another question arises. And that is whether batteries will still be affordable in the near future? This question is brought about by the fact that the demand for lithium is growing by 27% per year. According to Sven Bauer, “there’s enough but it comes mainly from China and this country’s subsidies for switching to Light Electric Vehicles for urban mobility brings a huge demand increase. Will it come to China First? Next to that the price for copper is up by 30%.”
According to BMZ CEO Bauer all this leads to the following conclusions:
  • Cell makers cannot keep up with demand
  • Cell makers will concentrate on automotive industry
  • Raw material prices on the rise
  • Increased volatility also in currencies
Cell production in Europe
What is to bring relief to the nightmare scenario described by Sven Bauer – with e-bike makers no longer getting the batteries they need, is to start cell production in Europe. That is made possible as the federal German government is offering a subsidy.
 
Spoke with Trek today. If the battery needs warranty:
  1. The local dealer would order a battery through Bosch. Trek does not stock the batteries.
  2. I Need to contact Bosch to see if Bosch USA stocks the battery, or if it comes from overseas.
  3. I cannot buy a Bosch replacement battery from Trek.
  4. Trek is not involved with the electronics, at all. That is entirely the responsibility of the dealer.
  5. Typically Trek orders the battery a year before. That is the lead time for Trek!
  • This does not make me feel very good.
 
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Bosch denied my request for a second battery. The USA is in a PowerTube rationing state. The reason Bosch gave totally shakes my faith in Bosch ability to warranty their product in a timely manner. OK?

Waiting another year has its benefits, too.
 
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I contacted Trek about not being able to buy a second battery from Bosch. Let's see if Trek can obtain one.
 
To me batteries are vunerable like tire tubes. You can go for a long time without getting a flat or running out of power. I once got a flat tire 15 miles from home in an industrial part of Denver. That was stressful.

Do retailers of German bikes also face the same difficulty? Who's interests does such a policy serve? Does this conflict with the interests of dual-battery bikes? Reise-Mueller is the only manufacturer that i know, who sells a dual-battery bike. I test rode and got a quote for the Dual Battery version.

The big difference is tire tubes:
  • do not limit your distance, and hence product functionality
    • I ride 30-40 miles on my pedal bike at high speed without a problem.
    • One battery is not enough for me
  • are damaged by dropping,
  • add 30 pounds to the bike weight.
  • Cost $1000
  • Take months to replace by warranty
  • Are unavailable for purchase
  • Provided only by a single, global giant company
  • subject to shortages
 
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Should I believe this? BOsch does not have a SKU or MSRP for a second battery?

First, I cannot believe it. Second, what does that mean? I am dumbfounded.
 
To me batteries are vunerable like tire tubes. You can go for a long time without getting a flat or running out of power. I once got a flat tire 15 miles from home in an industrial part of Denver. That was stressful.

Do retailers of German bikes also face the same difficulty? Who's interests does such a policy serve? Does this conflict with the interests of dual-battery bikes? Reise-Mueller is the only manufacturer that i know, who sells a dual-battery bike. I test rode and got a quote for the Dual Battery version.

The big difference is tire tubes:
  • do not limit your distance, and hence product functionality
    • I ride 30-40 miles on my pedal bike at high speed without a problem.
    • One battery is not enough for me
  • are damaged by dropping,
  • add 30 pounds to the bike weight.
  • Cost $1000
  • Take months to replace by warranty
  • Are unavailable for purchase
  • Provided only by a single, global giant company
  • subject to shortages

FYI- I see Focus and Haibike (with the new MultiRail System) are now offering the dual battery option on some of their E-bikes. Focus sells the 2nd battery in its own carrying case for easier transport The battery mounts on the frame and plugs directly into the system.
 
FYI- I see Focus and Haibike (with the new MultiRail System) are now offering the dual battery option on some of their E-bikes. Focus sells the 2nd battery in its own carrying case for easier transport The battery mounts on the frame and plugs directly into the system.

I think that is really smart. To be honest, I have a very hard time taking a single battery seriously. How far could I go, when I weigh 210 pounds?

Nobody can convince me that one battery is all that I need. I need two batteries, or some new battery technology. I have more range pedaling a conventional bike. I wish the industry would realize that. One battery seems like half of a bike to me.
 
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I think that is really smart. To be honest, I have a very hard time taking a single battery seriously. How far could I go, when I weigh 210 pounds?

Nobody can convince me that one battery is all that I need. I need two batteries, or some new battery technology. I have more range pedaling a conventional bike. I wish the industry would realize that. One battery seems like half of a bike to me.

You are correct. We all have a bit of 'range anxiety' and carrying a 2nd battery seems like it should be a norm in the industry. Not only that, they can get dropped, damaged, stolen, misplaced or just lost during transport. A 2nd should not be this difficult to obtain. Looks like the industry on the battery side alone has a long way to go to make sure they are fulfilling customer needs. I also think it is a very smart move for some of these companies to offer the 2nd one up front as an option before, during or after purchase of your new bike. Keep it going and perhaps someone will hear your concerns. It will help everyone. Thanks for your due diligence!
 
You are correct. We all have a bit of 'range anxiety' and carrying a 2nd battery seems like it should be a norm in the industry. Not only that, they can get dropped, damaged, stolen, misplaced or just lost during transport. A 2nd should not be this difficult to obtain. Looks like the industry on the battery side alone has a long way to go to make sure they are fulfilling customer needs. I also think it is a very smart move for some of these companies to offer the 2nd one up front as an option before, during or after purchase of your new bike. Keep it going and perhaps someone will hear your concerns. It will help everyone. Thanks for your due diligence!

Bosch actually approved the sale of a second battery today. What a hassle! Today was actually my drop dead date. I was sick of this s*. I expect the bike in a week. I really hate spending this amount of money to have this type of s* experience.
 
Think of the entire proprietary ebike battery business as a big racket. Overpriced, incompatible batteries. Luckily, Yamaha was defeated. Maybe eventually Bosch will be reversed too.
 
Think of the entire proprietary ebike battery business as a big racket. Overpriced, incompatible batteries. Luckily, Yamaha was defeated. Maybe eventually Bosch will be reversed too.

As consumers reach a deeper level of understanding, a decided and irreversible trend can set in. Just do right by your customers and everyone wins. We are all in this together and need each other. Break that faith and you risk your business.
 
Bosch actually approved the sale of a second battery today. What a hassle! Today was actually my drop dead date. I was sick of this s*. I expect the bike in a week. I really hate spending this amount of money to have this type of s* experience.

Magnifico! Finally cut through all the major B.S. to get this matter rectified. Please keep us posted regarding purchases. I assume you will retrofit your bike with the Nyon as well??
 
Magnifico! Finally cut through all the major B.S. to get this matter rectified. Please keep us posted regarding purchases. I assume you will retrofit your bike with the Nyon as well??

I have 15 accessories that amount to $2000. The second battery is $900. The light is $500. The bike is expensive enough at $3800. I feel like I am being gouged. Intuvia retrofit is $200. So, really the base price is over $6000. I call this tactic cost shifting. My racing mountain bike cost that much. No way in hell they are equivalent. My Yeti ASR-C is a dream ride.

The Bosch only starts making sense to me with the Nyon. Otherwise, it is just yet another over-engineered source of excessive German pride. What do I care about Prussian anything? And then they continue to stick it to you in the most abusive way. I fail to to see the perverse pleasure in the German scene. Please, someone clue me in, because I do not get it, being such a fat, ignorant and rich American. The Germans must be laughing all the way to the international currency exchange desk.


I am still deciding whether this is worth the price. I am trying to determine how far I can go with two batteries. They have a 30 day full refund policy.

One battery has half the range I want. At 210 pounds, the bike only carries half the weight that I want, 35 pounds. I feel like I am buying a frame, rather than a complete bike.

The bike shop is about a 90 minute bike ride. Not bad because my mother lives about 20 minutes away. Since I sold my car, the bus ride back is 90 minutes. I will easily put 5000 to 10000 miles on the bike per year. I expect The two batteries will last two years. The maintenance costs and inconvenience will be high.

In summary, I am not feeling very good about it. I just love my conventional bikes. I hate to put them through the abuse of another winter. I am torn.

I do not have problems with the American side of the bike. I very much dislike the German half — Bosch, Bush&Mueller. I wish I could by all American. I own a Specialized Diverge that I love. I am totally uninterested in the Specialized eBikes.

I think they hold all the cards and are taking full advantage of the situation. I just feel bad. If they were the least bit smart, they would try to make the experience pleasant. It has been a hassle. It makes me want to ride my pedal bikes, just to spite them.

I figured out how to work around no rack on my carbon bikes. Keep the amount of food to the size of a Guinness 18 pack. Or pay Walmart $10 to deliver bulky items, like TP.

It makes me sick. I can retrofit a 2019 (in a 2018 time warp) product to make it meet my needs, after a lot of sophisticated research. I do not t feel like the product was designed or made for me in any way. That really sucks when the bill is over $6000. All the pieces exist, in an incoherent, and sometimes illegal, manner. But they just do not integrate as a whole. The sum of parts do not add up to the price.

As a real cyclist, i just cannot bear the small, fixed chainring. A 15T chainring looks like a toy. Does a 15T cog belong on the rear cassette, or what? You have got to be kidding me. I do not care what rationalization marketing devises about reduction, a 15T chainring makes me want to laugh. Reduction belongs in a hub, not bottom bracket. I hate my small chainring on my compact 34/50T, because it makes me feel like a hamster in a treadmill. I like a 50T chainring because it is so efficient and smooth. I also love 29" wheels, for the same reason. The part that really blows my mind is the super-sized cassette. That giant cog looks so fragile. I wonder if i push too hard on the pedals what will happen to the drivetrain.

The other thing that irkes me about the Bosch is the weight and aerodynamic drag. It makes my eyes pop out of my head. Are they serious cyclists? Where did that shape come from, a car part? I only grudgingly accepted Bosch when the integrated the battery into the down tube. I look at that shape and wonder if pay a 25% drag penalty. The old configuration looks plain ugly to me. The old Bosch is offensive from an aesthetic standpoint. Have they no style? I hardly believe an Italian designer would tolerate that aesthetic. I rather think a French designer would throw a fit. Bosch is so obsessed with the controller logic, that they forgot what a beautiful bike looks like.

The Nyon compensates for all those anti-bike features. The Nyon brings rationality to the Bosch system.

The guiding principle seems to be profit. The price is not related to value. I have a hard time with that philosophy. It conjures images of witches stirring a caldron.

I have two needs: cargo and foul-weather bike. The Trek Powerfly 5 delivers no cargo value. I would rather pay Walmart $10 to deliver food. I can also pick up small, 25 pound grocery purchases, when i happen to pass by.

Can the Trek Powerfly 5 deliver foul-weather value? I have a hard time figuring that out due to the lack of battery fuel economy data. If i must guess, the answer is no. But i am not the gambling type.
 
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