any folder or e scooter for really steep hills?

[fooferdoggie]

one of my customers was asking for a small bike or scooter to handle some really steep hills. I just happened to ride one of them them he was talking about. it was about 1.5 miles at 18% grade with a few spots of 20% grade. we just made it up on our bosch powered tandem in turbo mode. I know my bosch commuter would be a little easier but it would still be some real work. I cant see any cost effective folder that could do this. he wants something he can stow in his boat. I think the only practical thing is a stand up e scooter with a bigger motor. not sure if anything is cost effective for limited use.

 

[FlatSix911]

Take a look at the RadMini... a decent folder with 80Nm of torque for climbing.
A mid-drive would be better, but not really an option in the current market.

Rad Power Bikes RadMini Step-Thru 2 Review | ElectricBikeReview.com

Price: $1799.00 | Model Year: 2020 | A folding, fat tire electric bike that's approachable, stable, and off-road capable. The custom 3.3

electricbikereview.com

 

[fooferdoggie]

Take a look at the RadMini... a decent folder with 80Nm of torque for climbing.
A mid-drive would be better, but not really an option in the current market.

Rad Power Bikes RadMini Step-Thru 2 Review | ElectricBikeReview.com

Price: $1799.00 | Model Year: 2020 | A folding, fat tire electric bike that's approachable, stable, and off-road capable. The custom 3.3

electricbikereview.com

you really think a rad is going up a 18% grade? when my bosch just makes it? its far more powerful then the rad and lighter too. the first road starts at 14 then to 16% the second is right at 18 to 20% I have to use turbo and I only make maybe 5mph on the steepest. no way a rad could do it it would curl up in a corner and whimper (G)

 

[FlatSix911]

you really think a rad is going up a 18% grade? when my bosch just makes it? its far more powerful then the rad and lighter too. the first road starts at 14 then to 16% the second is right at 18 to 20% I have to use turbo and I only make maybe 5mph on the steepest. no way a rad could do it it would curl up in a corner and whimper (G) View attachment 68432View attachment 68431

You may be surprised by the torque available for climbing... I recently rented one for a day and was surprised. To your point, that is one helluva hill.

Keep in mind that own a few mid-drives and strongly advocate for their inherent natural balance and power due to the mechanical advantage of gearing.

That said, I would recommend a mid-drive folder... a mythical beast much like a unicorn that is rarely seen or ridden. BD has one that is on backorder.

http://www.bikesdirect.com/products...icycles/ebikes-electric-folding-bikes-ef3.htm

 

[legsofbeer]

you really think a rad is going up a 18% grade?

A geared hub motor is your best bet for most torque per watt, at the expense of top-end speed. The rad mini has that. There will also likely be other folders out there with a geared hub. Also... storing a bike on a boat? Is this on salt water?

 

[fooferdoggie]

You may be surprised by the torque available for climbing... I recently rented one for a day and was surprised. To your point, that is one helluva hill.

Keep in mind that own a few mid-drives and strongly advocate for their inherent natural balance and power due to the mechanical advantage of gearing.

That said, I would recommend a mid-drive folder... a mythical beast much like a unicorn that is rarely seen or ridden. BD has one that is on backorder.

http://www.bikesdirect.com/products...icycles/ebikes-electric-folding-bikes-ef3.htm

Now make those hills 2 miles long and you will understand what I am saying. thats the hills he needs to climb. and also go down. that little guy would be close but it may still not do it my Bosch is 350 watts and have the gearing dialed in for great climbing. but I doubt he wants to spend much this is just to put in his boat so he can get back up the road to get his vehicle. the shuttle he usually takes does not cost a huge amount so its hard to justify.
Plus going down that hill is a bit scary we have 4 piston Shimano Deore brakes with 203mm ice rotors and it was a bit crazy.

 

[fooferdoggie]

A geared hub motor is your best bet for most torque per watt, at the expense of top-end speed. The rad mini has that. There will also likely be other folders out there with a geared hub. Also... storing a bike on a boat? Is this on salt water?

a hub motor cant youse your bikes gearing. a mid drive uses your drive so its torque is multiplied. thats why they are so hard on chains. but hey try a 500 watt hub motor like rad uses on a 18% grade and let me know how it works. I pass rad bikes on hills all the time on my bike

 

[FlatSix911]

Now make those hills 2 miles long and you will understand what I am saying. thats the hills he needs to climb. and also go down. that little guy would be close but it may still not do it my Bosch is 350 watts and have the gearing dialed in for great climbing. but I doubt he wants to spend much this is just to put in his boat so he can get back up the road to get his vehicle. the shuttle he usually takes does not cost a huge amount so its hard to justify.
Plus going down that hill is a bit scary we have 4 piston Shimano Deore brakes with 203mm ice rotors and it was a bit crazy.

I'm also a big fan of the bi-metal design of Shimano Ice Tech Rotors... I won't descend after a long climb without them!

 

[legsofbeer]

a hub motor cant youse your bikes gearing. a mid drive uses your drive so its torque is multiplied. thats why they are so hard on chains. but hey try a 500 watt hub motor like rad uses on a 18% grade and let me know how it works. I pass rad bikes on hills all the time on my bike

It's pretty clear from context the customer isn't into using his own legs nor spending middrive bucks. I live in SF, have ridden my stock radrover (same disparaged motor) up some non-trivial grades. The descent might be scarier than the climb. The rad mini at least has 180 mm rotors, but if the customer isn't into maintaining his brake cable tension...

 

[fooferdoggie]

I'm also a big fan of the bi-metal Shimano Ice Tech Rotors... I won't descend after a long climb without them!

yep we finally tested them going down that hill it was raining too .

 

[FlatSix911]

Yamaha 250W mamachari can climb 35% grade no problem.

In addition, the mid drive motor on Japanese mamachari aren't as strong as American market Yamaha PW-X motor.

Love that video... I have never had a problem climbing any steep grade with my Yamaha or Shimano mid-drives.

 

[fooferdoggie]

they don't have the speed. no one flies around on bikes there.

 

[fooferdoggie]

How fast does your customer need to climb up the hill?

You said small bike, so I'm assuming something with smaller diameter wheel?

Juiced HyperScrambler for example, can climb up steep hill no problem.

Although I'm sure that's not what you're looking for, it might give you a reference.

I can hear the batteries scream as they drain (G) I thin ka folding stand up scooter would fit better in a boat and you can get them with bigger motors. I don't think there are any small wheeled e bikes that would be beefy enough. I doubt they would be geared for it either. but I don't know if he would want to spend 1000 for this. unless you ride a regular bike a lot that steep of a hill is almost impossible on a acoustic bike.

 

[gujer911]

do not, i repeat do not overlook this little beauty before finalizing ur rig of choice.

 

[fooferdoggie]

ya that would be the way to go but I don't think he would want to do that. he is way too busy to bother with it. cant blame him there

 

[Art Deco]

you really think a rad is going up a 18% grade? when my bosch just makes it? its far more powerful then the rad and lighter too. the first road starts at 14 then to 16% the second is right at 18 to 20% I have to use turbo and I only make maybe 5mph on the steepest. no way a rad could do it it would curl up in a corner and whimper (G) View attachment 68432View attachment 68431

That hill equals "walk mode" for me.Even on my full sized middrive, I couldn't make it in turbo.

 

[fooferdoggie]

That hill equals "walk mode" for me.Even on my full sized middrive, I couldn't make it in turbo.

it was work. I have only found one hill I could not do I was even standing up and only going 3mph and finally gave up. I did not have my gps to measure it but it was bad. two blocks of hell.

 

[fooferdoggie]

But he only wants to spend $1,000 though?

As you know, that budget is only good for a basic ebike.. if he's looking for something strong for hill climbing, I think he would need to raise the budget

thats why I was thinking a e scooter.

 

[FlatSix911]

Yea, and Yamaha ebikes in Japan are typically around $1000.
They're very basic, affordable and simple.

I don't see why high performance American version of Yamaha can't climb 35% grade when Japanese mamachari can.

Their motor is powered by Yamaha GreenCore mid drive, which is affordable and basic motor than American Yamaha PW-X.

Yamaha Green Core
(Japanese market)

Yamaha PW-X
(American Market)

I have not met a mountain yet that I cannot climb with the Yamaha PW-X mid-drive motor... with a peak 44 mph descent.

 

[FlatSix911]

How fast does your customer need to climb up the hill?
You said small bike, so I'm assuming something with smaller diameter wheel?
Juiced HyperScrambler for example, can climb up steep hill no problem.
Although I'm sure that's not what you're looking for, it might give you a reference.

Another impressive climber!