Another Turbo Vado Ergonomics Thread

[mcdenny]

This is my first post. Hello to all!

I was a casual rider for most of my life but when we moved from flat Michigan to Tennessee (Nashville) I quit riding due to the hills. I'm 75 and pretty fit for an old guy but it was no fun flailing away in low gear then walking up. Ahh, but what if I had an electric bike...

I bought a Turbo Como 3.0 in Feb 2022 after lots of research here and hours wasting bike shop sales people talking and test riding. The bike has been great. I've enjoyed it a lot running errands, cruising around residential streets and occasionally taking it to a greenway for longer rides. I have a Kurt hitch rack and have taken it to Florida a couple of times for riding on vacation. So far have about 500 miles on it. It's very comfortable. I'm 5'10", 165 lbs, 32" inseam so right between medium and large frame recommendations, a little leaned forward but not much. Plenty of power, I ride in ECO most of the time, SPORT and TURBO are just for erasing hills. The 500 Wh battery gives me about 50 miles of range the way I ride. The longest ride I've ever taken was 25 miles so plenty of battery. The main downside I've found is the heavy bike is tough for me to load and unload from the hitch rack. It's also a pig to pedal with the motor off, which I'd like to do sometimes for more exercise.

So, I'm getting the itch for a more "sporty" bike that's a lot lighter than the 62 lbs Como. My year of E Biking has shown me I do not need the Como's battery capacity or motor power or really the front suspension forks. I'm very attracted to the Vado SL (37 lbs equipped) and somewhat attracted to the Como SL (48 lbs equipped). I rode a Como SL 4.0 for 20 minutes on extremely hilly streets. I liked the upright posture but it seemed underpowered and the 5 speed IGH never seemed to have the right gear. Maybe the 5.0 with an 8 speed IGH would have been better but I was not crazy about it. Next I rode a Vado SL 4.0 for 45 minutes on a mostly flat greenway (paved bike path shared with walkers). It felt really nimble and I could still ride comfortably at 12 mph in ECO mode, the same as I usually do on my Como. One short hill was fine using turbo. Even though it has the same motor as the Como SL it felt more powerfulI. 'm not sure why but it just seemed more fun to ride, maybe because it weighs barely half as much as my current bike. I can easily pick up the Vado SL with one hand so loading it on the rack would be way easier.

Of course there is a but... When I got back from the 45 minute ride my neck was pretty sore. I've read most of the threads here about mods to the Vado to make it more comfortable (upright posture) so I know it's possible to use a combination of adjustable stems and handlebars to get any degree of uprightness (?) I want.

My question to you experienced folks is: should I do that? Specialized surely knows a thing or two about designing bikes and the Vado ergonomics must be right for the vast majority of their customers. The bike shop people I talked to said I would get used to the lean forward and would actually find it more comfortable than the upright cruiser posture. Maybe???

I've read that changing the steering geometry, like an adjustable stem rotated upwards to bring the bars up and back can mess up the handling, making the bike feel twitchy (unsafe?). Also that moving my weight back will unload the front wheel, also a bad thing. What do you all think?

Related question: I could get a medium or large frame. The stack height of the large frame is 1.3" more than the medium. Wouldn't that give a little more upright posture with no negative consequences or am I missing something?

Thanks for reading this windy post, any comments will be appreciated.

 

[California]

This is my first post. Hello to all!

Welcome

The main downside I've found is the heavy bike is tough for me to load and unload from the hitch rack.

This seems like the only downside to your current bike. Perhaps you can find a hitch rack that has easier unloading loading? that seems like your only real concern. I would do extensive research on this first before changing bikes.

It's also a pig to pedal with the motor off, which I'd like to do sometimes for more exercise.

I found that I could turn the motor off on flat/downhill sections with these bikes. You could also adjust your eco settings down to less support to get more exercise.

So, I'm getting the itch for a more "sporty" bike that's a lot lighter than the 62 lbs Como. My year of E Biking has shown me I do not need the Como's battery capacity or motor power or really the front suspension forks. I'm very attracted to the Vado SL (37 lbs equipped) and somewhat attracted to the Como SL (48 lbs equipped). I rode a Como SL 4.0 for 20 minutes on extremely hilly streets. I liked the upright posture but it seemed underpowered and the 5 speed IGH never seemed to have the right gear.

Are you going to regularly ride hills? In my extensive research on these bikes, I found I did not like IGH on hills. It couldn't predict the right gear that I wanted. So I opted out of IGH. That should be a separate decision based upon the hilliness where you ride. I only ride where it is hilly as that's my neighborhood.

Of course there is a but... When I got back from the 45 minute ride my neck was pretty sore. I've read most of the threads here about mods to the Vado to make it more comfortable (upright posture) so I know it's possible to use a combination of adjustable stems and handlebars to get any degree of uprightness (?) I want.

Gosh if you really like the Como position, I would probably stick with your current bike. I found I liked the Vado/Terro position more for me

 

[gpburdell]

Couple thoughts…

There are hitch racks with ability to addd a ramp so you’re not lifting the bike.

Consider a professional bike fitting and talk to the fitter about what you’ve written. Lots cheaper than randomly throwing parts at an issue.

If in doubt as to frame size, it’s usually best to go smaller. You’re not gonna get taller in the coming years, and it’s far easier to make a small bike larger than the other way round. Also something to discuss with the fitter before buying.

 

[mcdenny]

Welcome

This seems like the only downside to your current bike. Perhaps you can find a hitch rack that has easier unloading loading? that seems like your only real concern. I would do extensive research on this first before changing bikes.

I found that I could turn the motor off on flat/downhill sections with these bikes. You could also adjust your eco settings down to less support to get more exercise.

Are you going to regularly ride hills? In my extensive research on these bikes, I found I did not like IGH on hills. It couldn't predict the right gear that I wanted. So I opted out of IGH. That should be a separate decision based upon the hilliness where you ride. I only ride where it is hilly as that's my neighborhood.

Gosh if you really like the Como position, I would probably stick with your current bike. I found I liked the Vado/Terro position more for me

California, thanks for your thoughts. I'm certainly considering keeping the Como, especially since the trade in the LBS is offering is half of the $3250 it cost.

The light weight is just so seductive. I also found that I could replace my 52# Kuat NV2 carrier with their 32# Sherpa model rated for bikes up to 40#. The 52# carrier is also a struggle to mount on the car then hang up in the garage.

 

[mcdenny]

Couple thoughts…

There are hitch racks with ability to addd a ramp so you’re not lifting the bike.

Consider a professional bike fitting and talk to the fitter about what you’ve written. Lots cheaper than randomly throwing parts at an issue.

If in doubt as to frame size, it’s usually best to go smaller. You’re to gonna get taller in the coming years, and it’s far easier to make a small bike larger than the other way round. Also something to discuss with the fitter before buying.

Going to see if there is a pro bike fitting service in Nashville. Thanks for the thought.

I wish I was going to get taller in the coming years, at 75 y/o I've already lost an inch

 

[California]

California, thanks for your thoughts. I'm certainly considering keeping the Como, especially since the trade in the LBS is offering is half of the $3250 it cost.

The light weight is just so seductive.

It is easy to be seduced by what you don't have, but what you do have fits you so well other than the weight, and you might loose some of the fun acceleration factor with an SL. I rode a ton of bikes and have a regular non-bike recumbent that weighs I think 25-30 pounds. To me riding these heavier bikes don't seem to make a difference to me.

I also found that I could replace my 52# Kuat NV2 carrier with their 32# Sherpa model rated for bikes up to 40#. The 52# carrier is also a struggle to mount on the car then hang up in the garage.

Do all your trips require you to carry the bike first somewhere?
If so I would do extensive research on every type of hitch out there that could work as that seems to be your biggest concern.

I also do a small amount of upper body weights at least weekly. It is not much but it has helped me keep my strength to a reasonable level that although these bikes are on the heavy side, I can maneuver them well enough.

 

[rarobo]

Welcome to the forum….. I am 70 and have a Vado and also struggle with loading it on my 4x4 f150, some time ago Court did a video with his dad on loading a heavy bike on a rack, helped me, put the front wheel on first, strap it in loosely, then put the back wheel on, don’t have a clue how to find the video, maybe someone can did it

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I've read most of the threads here about mods to the Vado to make it more comfortable (upright posture) so I know it's possible to use a combination of adjustable stems and handlebars to get any degree of uprightness (?) I want.

You have certainly not read my post/thread regarding Vado SL mods making the e-bike far more comfortable by increasing the forward riding position on that nimble machine

 

[mcdenny]

You have certainly not read my post/thread regarding Vado SL mods making the e-bike far more comfortable by increasing the forward riding position on that nimble machine

I certainly have, including all the arguing with dynamic about bike data connectivity.

I believe you made all the mods to get a more upright riding position but then later removed them as you found the the original more leaned over position was more comfortable. You explain clearly how to do the mods. I've learned a lot from your detailed posts - thank you.

I'm a much more "casual" (and probably a few decades older) rider than you, my longest ride has been 25 miles and a 4-6 mile ride around the neighborhood is more typical for me. Hoping to get some more opinions about the advisability of moving the Vado SL for upright posture vs. learning to live with it as stock.

 

[mcdenny]

Welcome to the forum….. I am 70 and have a Vado and also struggle with loading it on my 4x4 f150, some time ago Court did a video with his dad on loading a heavy bike on a rack, helped me, put the front wheel on first, strap it in loosely, then put the back wheel on, don’t have a clue how to find the video, maybe someone can did it

I watched that video just this morning - thank you. A friend showed me the "lock the back brake" trick last summer and it does make loading easier. Just not as easy as I would like.

 

[mcdenny]

It is easy to be seduced by what you don't have, but what you do have fits you so well other than the weight, and you might loose some of the fun acceleration factor with an SL. I rode a ton of bikes and have a regular non-bike recumbent that weighs I think 25-30 pounds. To me riding these heavier bikes don't seem to make a difference to me.

Do all your trips require you to carry the bike first somewhere?
If so I would do extensive research on every type of hitch out there that could work as that seems to be your biggest concern.

I also do a small amount of upper body weights at least weekly. It is not much but it has helped me keep my strength to a reasonable level that although these bikes are on the heavy side, I can maneuver them well enough.

Full disclosure: I didn't mention this above so as to not further confuse my first post but my wife and I each have a Como. Hauling the bikes usually means I have to lift two of them. She is a little intimidated by the size and weight of her size M Como. She for sure will be getting either a Como SL or Vado SL whether I get a new bike or not.

I do sometimes fall into the grass is always greener... trap.

My concerns with weight (both bike and carrier) have to do with making it easier to load up and go ride somewhere besides my neighborhood. I certainly can load the 52# carrier onto the car and load the #62 bikes but 1) It's a hassle so I don't do it as often I might otherwise 2) We have taken the bikes on 3 vacations and bring them into our hotel room at night. That's a pain even with the batteries removed (which is another pain as they don't come out without some fiddling) and 3) I exercise a bit too but realistically its only slowing age related weakening. Lighter bikes would kind of future proof the activity for me.

 

[mschwett]

I can’t speak to riding at 75 - I certainly hope to be at that point - kudos! … but it’s a while off. I will say that the various sore feelings are pretty normal at first, and tend to go away on a properly fitted bike with gradually increased riding and conditioning. 500 miles isn’t really enough for that, and a few test rides definitely isn’t! it took me maybe 1000 miles on my creo to erase a few minor aches and pains, and on my non electric bike I have made small adjustments to the fit every 1,000 miles or so.

as you note, specialized (and others) know a lot about bike geometry. where people get intro trouble is using a bike for something it’s not designed for (e.g. 50-100 mile athletic/performance rides on a cruiser, or long road rides on a mountain bike, or very rough surfaces on a road bike - ouch), a bike that doesn’t fit them (there are certain basic relationships that are really a must, starting with pedal to saddle and going from there), or jumping into long rides too quickly. the latter is unique to ebikes - if you’re pedaling it entirely yourself, you probably won’t just ride 2x further one day than you ever have before.

get the Vado SL. sounds like the right bike for you. the como SL really isn’t like the other SL bikes. heavy and not very sporty with the IGH.

 

[CodyDog]

My wife has a Como and I have a Vado SL. Yes, it is much easier to load the Vado SL. A lot of time for convenience sake, I do not attached the rack. Instead I load the bikes in the back of my truck. That's when the Como seems really heavy.

As far as the riding position of the Vado SL, it is forward as you have found out, and takes a little getting used to. I have gotten used to the position but still have yet to find that perfect saddle. The quickness and handling of the Vado SL is incredible and I have found the power to be enough.

Good luck on your decision and welcome to the forum.

 

[gromike]

I'm just a spring chicken at only 70 years old, but for me a full suspension ebike is the only way to go.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

As far as the riding position of the Vado SL, it is forward as you have found out, and takes a little getting used to.

The first thing any rider finds hard on the Vado SL is countering the headwind. Ride that e-bike in upright position, and Vado SL will crawl.
Making Vado SL a cruiser (sitting upright) will also take the immediate effect on the rider's body:

• Sore butt
• Aching lower back
• Numb hands.

#notrecommended

I must mention I not only restored my Vado SL to the original geometry. No. I did anything possible to change my position to even more forward. It has straightened my back and relieved me from most of aches. (I would love riding in aero bars only I am scared to death to try them!)

Yes, I must look funny when I'm spinning. A 62-yo man with a protruding belly, and his thighs almost touching the stomach
Ya, but I can do a Metric Century or more easily!

 

[mcdenny]

Follow-up from my first post last Saturday: Yesterday I rode a size L VADO SL 4.0 on a 2 mile residential loop, then a size M COMO SL 5.0 on same loop, then rode the Vado again. I brought my bike rack thinking I might buy the Vado but, honestly, I didn't love either bike. Then I rode my Como 3.0 as soon as I got home and came to the realization that I like my current bike better than either of the SL models.

A lighter bike would make loading easier but if it doesn't ride as well what's the point? I'm going to take @California's advice above and work out a ramp solution for loading the bikes onto the carrier and I have an idea for a wheeled dolly move the carrier from the car to the garage.

My wife is not crazy about riding her size M Como 3.0 as she feels it is too big and too heavy. I think we will replace that with a size S Como SL 5.0. She says she wouldn't care at all about losing the left grip PAS +/- buttons or the mastermind display.

 

[Mike Moore]

@mcdenny we own two 2021 Como 3.0's that we love. We have a Kuat NV2.0 hitch rack and purchased the ramp for that rack from Kuat. The ramp works great. Very easy to roll the Como's up on the rack. I also purchased a "dolly" made for rolling the Kuat rackk from ebay that works very well. Here is the link for the dolly https://www.ebay.com/itm/353444670161. It currently show out of stock so I don't know if it there will be more of them. Here is a link for the ramp: https://www.kuat.com/product/nv-2-0-bike-ramp/

 

[mcdenny]

@mcdenny we own two 2021 Como 3.0's that we love. We have a Kuat NV2.0 hitch rack and purchased the ramp for that rack from Kuat. The ramp works great. Very easy to roll the Como's up on the rack. I also purchased a "dolly" made for rolling the Kuat rackk from ebay that works very well. Here is the link for the dolly https://www.ebay.com/itm/353444670161. It currently show out of stock so I don't know if it there will be more of them. Here is a link for the ramp: https://www.kuat.com/product/nv-2-0-bike-ramp/

I had a dolly in mind just like the one in the link, with the height just right to slide the carrier into the cars receiver. I'm thinking of a ramp that folds in half made out of some aluminum "C" channel. I'll post here when and if I actually do this.

 

[Jim in Central CA]

Welcome! My two cents is that you might consider the Hollywood Destination E hitch rack. It is similar to the Thule e-bike rack, but it comes with a nicely sized ramp included so it is about $300 cheaper than the Thule with the extra longer ramp. I am still working but my wife is retired and one of her girlfriends also has an e-bike, so she needs a way for her to load and unload the e-bike (2021 Como 4 ST) when I am not available to do it for her. We just bought the Hollywood Destination E rack so we have not yet had a chance to try it out ourselves, but the reviews are very good and I recommend you consider it as another option, although it may still challenge you with the weight of the rack itself.

 

[mcdenny]

So, here's what I did to deal with the weight of the Turbo Como.

I have a KUAT NV2.0 base carrier. Works great but heavy (52#). Bought their loading ramp ($96). Now effortless to load the bike nearest the car using walk mode. Using this method for a second bike takes some effort as it has to be leaned way over for bike #2 handlebars to clear bike #1 handlebars. Honestly its easier to load bike #2 using the lock the rear brake and pull up method.

Here's the dolly I made from scrap wood and $12 worth of Harbor Freight casters.

Its just the right height for the square tube to slide into the hitch receiver

I made a counterweight system to help load it onto its brackets on the garage wall. There is a 28# piece of lead on the other end of the rope so I have to pull down with 28# force, hook the rope onto the bike rack then lift its now apparent 24# up onto the wall brackets. Pretty easy to do.

And all put away